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(03-12-2025, 02:36 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If it was easy stopping the run, teams would never run the ball. There are great run blockers and great running backs that make it very hard to stop the run. A running back has a 6 yard head start against a stationary DT being blocked by OG's and centers who weigh 300 to 330 lbs. How is that easy? You can win the battle and still have to stop a guy like Henry who weighs 235 to 240 lbs. and a sprinter as well.
How quickly people forget how great DJ Reader was for us..... at stopping the run.
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(03-12-2025, 05:49 PM)Sled21 Wrote: How quickly people forget how great DJ Reader was for us..... at stopping the run.
Reader was also a great pass rusher for us as well. He just wasn't a one trick pony as a player for us.
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(03-12-2025, 05:59 PM)J24 Wrote: Reader was also a great pass rusher for us as well. He just wasn't a one trick pony as a player for us.
He had 3 sacks in 4 years. I get the 'but pressures" retort, yet you'd expect someone classified as a great pass rusher to get to the QB a little more often than that
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(03-12-2025, 06:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: He had 3 sacks in 4 years. I get the 'but pressures" retort, yet you'd expect someone classified as a great pass rusher to get to the QB a little more often than that
He was top 20 in pass rush win rate and in pff pass rush grade in 2022 and 2023.
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(03-12-2025, 06:24 PM)J24 Wrote: He was top 20 in pass rush win rate and in pff pass rush grade in 2022 and 2023.
Yes. The whole pass rush/run stop win rate stats are interesting. It just means you beat your guy and got better position.
Slaton was scored pretty bad against the run by PFF and he misses a ton of tackles.
That said, I don't consider Reader a good pass rusher.
And Slaton may not improve our run defense as much as people think.
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(03-12-2025, 12:15 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: First, give a nice comparison to support your thread, I might agree with you, but we did not make playoffs last two years, maybe turnover it what we need.
What turnover? Is Hilton the reason we didn't make the playoffs. We needed better IOL play and more pass rush. We've done nothing and Trey is up in the air. We can't fix all this in the draft.
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Love how all some fans blindly support the perpetual idiocies of this front office. Being unable to come to an agreement with any of the big 3 shows how big morons the Brown family are. Face it they could give a rats ass if the Bengals ever make the Super Bowl. As long as they can guarantee generational nepotism it is a great season for them. You own 97% of a $4 billion organization and you can’t raise any funds to do what’s right. Might as well as piss on all the fans since tax payer money funds your operation. Disgusted as a fan is an understatement. Waiting for the Mike Brown supporter to jump in and provide a defense.
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Same exact defens with a NT and a reserve LB but without Hilton, ou green dot and the he’s run support corner in the league
wtf are we expecting?
-Housh
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(03-12-2025, 06:44 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: What turnover? Is Hilton the reason we didn't make the playoffs. We needed better IOL play and more pass rush. We've done nothing and Trey is up in the air. We can't fix all this in the draft.
Exactly what is he talking about? Turnover is replacing guys with other good players not letting your best walk then replacing them backups from other teams and a DT who is impossible to play on pass downs
-Housh
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(03-12-2025, 06:24 PM)J24 Wrote: He was top 20 in pass rush win rate and in pff pass rush grade in 2022 and 2023.
What does pass rush win rate mean and how does that help?
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(03-12-2025, 09:24 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What does pass rush win rate mean and how does that help?
Well that's the crux of these discussions and I agree with you.
People are calling Slaton a dominant run stuffer because of his run block win rate.
Just like Reader isn't a pass rusher, this guy won't shut down run games. He misses a lot of tackles.
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(03-12-2025, 09:24 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What does pass rush win rate mean and how does that help?
Is how often a pass rusher beats his opponent under 2.5 seconds.
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(03-12-2025, 09:29 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well that's the crux of these discussions and I agree with you.
People are calling Slaton a dominant run stuffer because of his run block win rate.
Just like Reader isn't a pass rusher, this guy won't shut down run games. He misses a lot of tackles.
Yeah, I'll cal Slayton a dominant run stuffer when he stuffs runs
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(03-12-2025, 06:44 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: What turnover? Is Hilton the reason we didn't make the playoffs. We needed better IOL play and more pass rush. We've done nothing and Trey is up in the air. We can't fix all this in the draft.
Trey is under contract. No, he is not up in the air. He was not under contract he would be up in the air. Mike Hilton is up in the air, not Trey Chase or Higgins.
Please use 2025 free agency to fix the trenches, not the draft!!!!!!!!
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(03-12-2025, 09:29 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well that's the crux of these discussions and I agree with you.
People are calling Slaton a dominant run stuffer because of his run block win rate.
Just like Reader isn't a pass rusher, this guy won't shut down run games. He misses a lot of tackles.
A nose tackles main job is occupy blocks and create penetration in the run game.Thus allowing others to make the tackles.
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(03-12-2025, 09:39 PM)J24 Wrote: Is how often a pass rusher beats his opponent under 2.5 seconds.
Ok he beats his blocker in 2.5 seconds, then what?
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When the PFF and stat arguments start, you know it’s free agency season in bungledom
If you see something suspicious, say something suspicious.
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(03-12-2025, 09:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Ok he beats his blocker in 2.5 seconds, then what?
That means wins his matchup and a high level. Which leads to him creating pressures for him and the players around him. Which is the main objective of rushing the passer from the DT position.
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(03-12-2025, 09:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Ok he beats his blocker in 2.5 seconds, then what?
I just posted this to say and show that I do think the pass rush win rate is a valuable and meaningful stat. But I do think a guy like Reader is more of an anomaly. Where he has the talent to dominate the offensive lineman in front of him but not the ability to then close and get to the quarterback. I think that's where production needs to be paired with PRWR especially if there is a significant disconnect.
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