{The Ultimate Bengals Offseason Extravaganza Thread}

[sandwedge]

(04-06-2025, 11:57 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I had seen a cut up of all the 4th down plays for the Bengals this past year. It did seem that the vast majority of failures were due to IOL play. Whether they were failed runs up the middle or immediate pressure up the middle on Burrow. I know 4th down playcalling has been horrific under Taylor during his tenure but this past year may not be more on the IOL. Why I'm so surprised we didn't bring in a starting FA. 

On the other side of that, before Zac we punted on 4th and inches. I also agree with you IOL was bad. We should be able to line up on 4th & 1 and run it straight ahead

[BFritz21]

I thought we were closing in on a deal with Hendrickson, but then I saw this page on BleacherReport that had five teams that could possibly trade us for Trey, and then I also saw a few more possibilities posted in the past few hours that I'll mention.

Patriots

Quote:Patriots Get: Edge Trey Hendrickson
Bengals Get: 2025 second-round pick (38th overall)

We should start by examining teams that can afford to pay Hendrickson top-of-the-market value. According to Russini, while clubs haven't been willing to meet Cincinnati's asking price, they are willing to meet the player's contract demands.

Even after a flurry of early offseason activity, the New England Patriots still lead the league with $68.7 million in effective cap space. They also have numerous needs on the roster—aside from quarterback, as Drake Maye appears to be a long-term answer.

The Patriots added edge-rushers Harold Landry III and K'Lavon Chaisson in free agency, but there's room for another high-level sack artist in New England. The Pats recorded just 28 sacks as a team last season, and they could use an influx of defensive leadership.

Hendrickson could provide both production and strong locker room leadership, and new head coach Mike Vrabel got an up-close look at just how impactful he can be as a Cleveland Browns consultant last season.

While the Bengals may prefer a hefty trade package, teams are unlikely to offer anything outlandish given the need to immediately extend Hendrickson.
A high second-round pick would be a fair offer from the Patriots, as it would give Cincinnati an opportunity to potentially replace Hendrickson with a pass-rushing prospect such as Texas A&M's Nic Scourton or Ohio State's JT Tuimoloau.

I think Vrabel would like to get his hands on Hendrickson and they have the money to extend him. I'd be happy with this because then we can draft a pass rushing tackle like Nolen to put at the 3 and take pressure off the end we'd also draft to replace Trey, and then still have a pick to draft one of the guards to protect Burrow and open holes for Chase (doesn't have to be in that order).

Lions

Quote:Lions Get: Edge Trey Hendrickson, 2025 second-round pick (49th overall)
Bengals Get: 2025 first-round pick (28th overall)

It's no secret the Detroit Lions could use a high-end edge-rushing complement opposite Aidan Hutchinson.

While they brought back Marcus Davenport, he has a lengthy injury history and cannot be expected to be a legitimate difference-maker. They also released 2024 trade acquisition Za'Darius Smith early in the offseason.

Detroit's tendency to draft and develop players will likely lead the team to the draft for its next pass-rusher. The B/R Scouting Department recently paired the Lions with Georgia's Mykel Williams in its latest mock draft.

If the right defensive prospect isn't available in Round 1, general manager Brad Holmes may want to call Cincinnati to try swinging a draft-day trade.

While trading back into Round 1 from 49th overall might not provide the Bengals with their desired compensation, it would give them the chance to add two rookie contracts that include the fifth-year option. That could be quite valuable as they look to financially juggle the top-end contracts of Chase, Higgins and Joe Burrow in the coming years.

For the Lions, pairing Hendrickson (17.5 sacks in 2024) with Hutchinson (11.5 sacks in 2023) would provide one of the league's top pass-rushing duos.
Paying Hendrickson would be feasible, as Detroit has $43 million in cap space available.

I think we're giving up too much there because we're basically giving up Hendrickson and moving up 21 picks for another first rounder while giving up our second rounder. We get bamboozled there, IMCO.

Colts

Quote:Colts Get: Edge Trey Hendrickson, 2025 first-round pick (17th overall)
Bengals Get: 2025 first-round pick (14th overall), 2025 second-round pick (45th overall)

With just $22.6 million in cap space, the Indianapolis Colts don't have quite as much financial flexibility as some other teams on this list. However, they might be able to provide Hendrickson with his most obvious fit.

Former Bengals defensive coordinator Lou Anarumo, who was fired after the 2024 season, now holds the same position in Indianapolis.

The Colts could also use another edge-rusher as part of their defensive makeover. They added cornerback Charvarius Ward and safety Camryn Bynum to the back end during free agency, but they lost edge-rusher Dayo Odeyingbo to the Chicago Bears.

In Indianapolis, Hendrickson would immediately become the headliner of an edge rotation that also includes Kwity Paye and 2024 first-round pick Laiatu Latu—even if the Colts expect big things from Latu.

"I think you'll see a big jump from Year 1 to Year 2," head coach Shane Steichen said of Latu, per JJ Stankevitz of the team's official website.

For the chance to reunite Hendrickson with Anarumo, the Colts could offer up their second-round pick and a chance to move up a few spots in Round 1.

Same as the Lions, I think we're giving up too much to just basically move up and only get one extra pick because I don't think there's a game-changer that we could draft by moving up. You could say we could use it to trade for more picks or players, but it's too risky for me.

49ers

Quote:49ers Get: Edge Trey Hendrickson, 2025 first-round pick (17th overall)
Bengals Get: 2025 first-round pick (11th overall), 2025 third-round pick (75th overall), 2025 third-round pick (100th overall)

While the San Francisco 49ers may not be undergoing a full-on rebuild this offseason, they have allowed several key contributors to walk and must now find ways to replace them.

Pass-rusher Leonard Floyd was among the departures, as he was released during the legal-contact window. The 49ers have yet to replace him and are still searching for a quality complement to edge-rusher Nick Bosa.

There was some speculation that San Francisco would try to pair Bosa with his brother, Joey, following his release from the Los Angeles Chargers. However, the elder Bosa signed with the Buffalo Bills instead, and it appears he was never particularly close to joining the 49ers.

"It didn't sound like that got close at all, really, to happening," NFL Network's Ian Rapoport said last month (h/t David Bonilla of 49ers Webzone).

The 49ers could look for their No. 2 pass-rusher in the draft—the B/R Scouting Department recently mocked Texas A&M's Shemar Stewart to San Francisco. With $40.3 million in cap space, they could also consider pivoting to Hendrickson.

San Francisco is equipped with two third-round picks—it was awarded a special compensatory selection for the external hirings of DeMeco Ryans and Ran Carthon. It could offer both selections, along with a fairly sizeable first-round jump, to Cincinnati for Hendrickson.

I don't like giving up Hendrickson and a pick, but this is probably my second-favorite option because we at least get two more picks.

Packers

Quote:Packers Get: Edge Trey Hendrickson, 2025 third-round pick (81st overall)
Bengals Get: CB Jaire Alexander, 2025 second-round pick (54th overall)

The Green Bay Packers have one of the NFL's youngest rosters and are likely to continue building through their draft-and-develop strategy. But targeting Hendrickson would make sense since they are also exploring the idea of trading cornerback Jaire Alexander.

While Alexander has struggled to stay healthy over the past two years, the Packers aren't about to let him go for pennies.

"We invested a lot in Jaire and we want to make sure if he's not going to be on our football team helping us win games, that we get something back for that investment," general manager Brian Gutekunst said, per Mark Oldacres of Packers Wire.

Hendrickson would represent a solid return on Green Bay's investment. The Packers would likely need to sweeten the deal because of Alexander's recent injury history, but a favorable day-2 pick swap might move the needle for Cincinnati.

Alexander is a two-time Pro Bowler and one of the league's top cover corners when healthy. He's also just 28 years old and could aid a Bengals defense that ranked 21st in passing yards allowed last season.

The Packers could use some additional help on the edge, too. While their defense recorded 45 sacks in 2024, Rashan Gary was the only defender to log more than five. Kingsley Enagbare was second among Packers edge defenders with just 4.5 sacks.

Extending Hendrickson would be an option, as Green Bay still has $32.5 million in cap space available.

With the Packers open to moving on from Alexander and the Bengals possibly having little choice with Hendrickson, this could be the sort of win-win trade that allows both franchises to consider themselves winners.

We really need a corner to upgrade our secondary and, while we give up a third, we pick up an extra second, so we could draft a tackle and end to improve our pass rush but then we'd also get much needed help in our secondary.

I think this is my favorite option.

Which do you like?

Do you see any of them happening?

[BFritz21]

Sports Illustrated also thinks the Rams should try to trade us for him:

Quote:"Closing out with the biggest and most obvious name. Hendrickson has had a very public battle with the Bengals' front office over the last year. From requesting a trade, to going on The Pat McAfee Show and airing dirty laundry, the reigning sack king just wants paid what the market calls for him to be paid. If the Bengals really aren't going to budge, trading him is the only other option. The Rams need a difference-maker off the edge, and if anyone is willing to part ways with picks in exchange for proven talent, it's Les Snead," Bailey said.

BVM Sports thinks we should trade him to the Colts, which would just be swapping first-round picks and then also facing us their second-rounder.

Quote:The Indianapolis Colts are eyeing a potential trade for star pass-rusher Trey Hendrickson from the Cincinnati Bengals, leveraging recent issues in his contract negotiations. This blockbuster deal could send Hendrickson and a 2025 first-round pick (No. 17) to Indy in exchange for picks No. 14 and No. 45 in the same draft. Despite high compensation, concerns remain over Hendrickson's contract demands, projected between $30-35 million, considering he's turning 31 in December. Hendrickson’s impressive stats since 2021, including 57 sacks, further underscore his value to the Colts as they seek to bolster their defense. The Colts have made significant moves this offseason and are not yet out of the running for Hendrickson.

Don't think I like either of those options but they're better than overpaying Trey, IMCO.

[sandwedge]

I like the San Fran option. More higher end picks!

[SunsetBengal]

The Bengals aren't trading Trey Hendrickson. Any deal that they can agree on that would pay him fairly for being the two time reigning sack leader would be far from "over paying". If they came up with the money for an often injured WR, they can certainly come up with money for the sack master.

[BFritz21]

(04-06-2025, 05:10 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The Bengals aren't trading Trey Hendrickson. Any deal that they can agree on that would pay him fairly for being the two time reigning sack leader would be far from "over paying". If they came up with the money for an often injured WR, they can certainly come up with money for the sack master.

Like I keep saying, he'll be 31 by season's end and it would be foolish to think he can keep up the kind of production that he's had the past two seasons, and maybe Golden thinks his aggressive style can improve the sack numbers of other defenders, making up for what we'd lose in Trey.

[Luvnit2]

(04-06-2025, 05:10 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The Bengals aren't trading Trey Hendrickson. Any deal that they can agree on that would pay him fairly for being the two time reigning sack leader would be far from "over paying". If they came up with the money for an often injured WR, they can certainly come up with money for the sack master.

I agree Trey is going nowhere in 2025. I don't see the Bengals paying him 35 or 40 million in 2025 when he is under contract (cap hit less than 16 million, but factoring in his signing bonus closer to 19 million).

I do see us offering him an additional 5 million in 2025. Then a 2 year extension paying him 35 million in 2026, but only 20 million guaanteed and 35 milion in 2027, but none guaranteed. I think if that is the offer, Trey should take it because if he performs to his 2025 contract, the Bengals will pay him in 2026. If he doesn't perform and get 15 to 20 sacks, then that is on him and he shouldn't be paid 35 million in 2026.

[Luvnit2]

(04-06-2025, 05:18 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Like I keep saying, he'll be 31 by season's end and it would be foolish to think he can keep up the kind of production that he's had the past two seasons, and maybe Golden thinks his aggressive style can improve the sack numbers of other defenders, making up for what we'd lose in Trey.

I gave my thoughts on Trey and similar to your thoughts, bug difference between giving guaranteed money to a 28 or 29 year old versus 31 year old for future years.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-06-2025, 06:26 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree Trey is going nowhere in 2025. I don't see the Bengals paying him 35 or 40 million in 2025 when he is under contract (cap hit less than 16 million, but factoring in his signing bonus closer to 19 million).

I do see us offering him an additional 5 million in 2025. Then a 2 year extension paying him 35 million in 2026, but only 20 million guaanteed and 35 milion in 2027, but none guaranteed. I think if that is the offer, Trey should take it because if he performs to his 2025 contract, the Bengals will pay him in 2026. If he doesn't perform and get 15 to 20 sacks, then that is on him and he shouldn't be paid 35 million in 2026.

That would be a disrespectful proposal for what he's done for the team. The need to give him 3/$100M, wiping this year's remaining deal and guarantee the first two years. Anything less is telling the two time sack leader that he's nothing more that a "hired hand". If they found the creativity to give often injured Tee Higgins a "big boy" deal, they can at least do the same for lunch pail Trey.

[phil413]

(04-06-2025, 06:30 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That would be a disrespectful proposal for what he's done for the team. The need to give him 3/$100M, wiping this year's remaining deal and guarantee the first two years. Anything less is telling the two time sack leader that he's nothing more that a "hired hand". If they found the creativity to give often injured Tee Higgins a "big boy" deal, they can at least do the same for lunch pail Trey.

I agree, just comes down to 3rd year guarantees.  If say only 10M is guaranteed they can save face if there is a drop-off and he gets his raise he deserves this year.  They need to position the team to resign key players in 2 years and keeping these core players has a lot to do with keeping morale for future FAs/picks that play for Cincy.  We don't need to honor Mayor Springer by the owners daughter trading barbs. 

[NUGDUKWE]

(04-06-2025, 05:18 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Like I keep saying, he'll be 31 by season's end and it would be foolish to think he can keep up the kind of production that he's had the past two seasons, and maybe Golden thinks his aggressive style can improve the sack numbers of other defenders, making up for what we'd lose in Trey.

I guess data suggests productive edge players to gradually decline rather than drop off a cliff. So if he remains healthy it would be reasonable to expect him to still be a double digit sack guy for a few more years.

[jj22]

In this draft the caliber player you are going to get at 14 you’ll get at 17 (and 27…..)

There’s no benefit to swapping 1st round picks with anyone outside top 5 (which isn’t happening)

[jj22]

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/allbengals-insiders-plus/pff-ranks-cincinnati-bengals-2024-draft-class-production-near-bottom-of-nfl-01jr0f9k5cks

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-06-2025, 01:38 PM)sandwedge Wrote: On the other side of that, before Zac we punted on 4th and inches. I also agree with you IOL was bad. We should be able to line up on 4th & 1 and run it straight ahead

Punting is better than failing.

After being above-average the first 3 years, the last 3 years the Bengals have been...
'24: 21st
'23: 25th
'22: 32nd
...in 4th down conversion %.

[*Synric*]

(04-06-2025, 09:10 PM)jj22 Wrote: https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/allbengals-insiders-plus/pff-ranks-cincinnati-bengals-2024-draft-class-production-near-bottom-of-nfl-01jr0f9k5cks

Mims did not struggle. Other than Mims and Erick All the 2024 draft class didn't show alot. 

[Luvnit2]

(04-06-2025, 06:30 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That would be a disrespectful proposal for what he's done for the team. The need to give him 3/$100M, wiping this year's remaining deal and guarantee the first two years. Anything less is telling the two time sack leader that he's nothing more that a "hired hand". If they found the creativity to give often injured Tee Higgins a "big boy" deal, they can at least do the same for lunch pail Trey.

I a am not sure why you feel it is dispectful for the FO to ask Trey to honor his current contract. I agree he deserves more in 2025, the question becoes how much more. The other issue becomes if they just tear up the contract he signed, then to be fair anytime a player outplays his contract FO would be forced to do it over and over again. The rookie punter was of the best at his position, wh didn't they offer him 3 to 5 million versus the 1.1, he earned it also.

My point is it could make contracts a floor for the Bengals versus a ceiling.

Trey current deal, he only has 15.8 million guaranteed for 2025. I would think any deal where he gets an additional 25 to 40 million guaranteed he should consider and not feel disrespected knowing it is a busness and he is 1 contract standard the Bengals will set moving forward. He is not a 28 year old, he is past his prime in football years and playing on borrowed time if you look at league averages.

An example is Watt. Is he getting better with age or starting to drop off? The Bosa brothers better or dropping off. Just too many that were at the mountan top and now are slowing rolling down the hill.

As for anyone thinking we can replace Trey with a 2025 draft pick. According to ESPN, the top pass rusher is Carter and they say he will get almost 29 sacks.........problem is that is 5 years. Others are less than 4 sack per year. Will some overperform? Yes,  but picking the over performer in round 1 or 2 is not an exact science. Below is top 3.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2025/insider/story/_/id/44508421/2025-nfl-draft-edge-rusher-projections-rankings-stats-historical-comps-prospects

1. Abdul Carter, Penn State

SackSEER projection: 28.0 sacks through five NFL seasons
Scouts Inc. ranking: 1
Similar historical prospects: Marcus Davenport, T.J. Watt

It's tough to project Carter because he was originally an off-ball linebacker in college. This might have given him artificially low sack totals in his first couple of seasons at Penn State -- 6.5 in 2022 and 4.5 sacks in 2023. But it also may give him artificially high passes defensed totals -- four in 2022 and five passes defensed in 2023. The first stat gives him a disadvantage in our projections, while the second gives him an advantage.

Making things even more complicated is that Carter didn't do any predraft workouts at the combine or his pro day. That leaves us trying to project his workout numbers based on what edge rushers taken at the top of the draft have done in the past.

For example, we end up projecting him with a 40-yard dash time of 4.59 seconds. Some reports claim he has put up better numbers than those in college workouts, but unstandardized numbers for player workouts tend to be unreliable.

Only three top-five edge rusher picks since 1998 did not run a predraft 40: Chase Young, Andre Wadsworth and Clelin Ferrell. That's not the best company, and it is an incredibly small sample size.

Overall, Carter comes out with an impressive SackSEER projection, but he's not one of the all-time greats. His final college season featured 12 sacks in 16 games, which is good but not historic. I would not be deterred from picking Carter near the top of the draft, but be aware there might be more risk than conventional wisdom believes.


2. Shemar Stewart, Texas A&M
SackSEER projection: 25.2 sacks through five NFL seasons
Scouts Inc. ranking: 19
Similar historical prospects: Danielle Hunter (but much larger)

There really are no historical prospects similar to Stewart. He ran a 4.59-second 40 at the combine with a 40-inch vertical and a broad jump of 10-foot-11. But he was unproductive over three years at Texas A&M, with just 1.5 sacks per season. It's not rare to have a player with very few college sacks who dominates the athletic drills at the combine and turn outs as a success in the NFL. But these players in the past primarily had only one season of experience as a starting edge rusher, such as Jason Pierre-Paul, Clay Matthews and Ezekiel Ansah.

Editor's Picks

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Hunter is the one player who comes out remotely close to Stewart in the variables used in SackSEER. Hunter also had just 4.5 sacks in college, in his case as a two-year starter. But he was 240 pounds when he came out of LSU in 2015. Stewart is a lot bigger (267 pounds vs. 252).

There are also some similarities to Cornelius Washington, who came out of Georgia in 2013. Washington ran a 4.53-second 40 at 265 pounds with a 39-inch vertical and a broad jump of 10 feet, 8 inches. However, Washington had 10.5 sacks in four years at Georgia and was only considered a fringe prospect. He was drafted by the Bears in the sixth round. Stewart is going to be a first-round pick. Most scouts agree that his tape is better than his sack totals. But our projections really don't know what to do with him.


3. Mike Green, Marshall
SackSEER projection: 23.9 sacks through five NFL seasons
Scouts Inc. ranking: 21
Similar historical prospects: Damontre Moore, Aidan Hutchinson

Green started out at Virginia and then transferred to Marshall, where he led the FBS with 17 sacks and 23 tackles for loss last season. He has both speed and power moves, plus he's another former off-ball linebacker, so teams can occasionally drop him into coverage. At his pro day, Green chose to run the three-cone drill and shuttle but did no other workouts, which was very unusual. Perhaps Green knew to focus on what he did best because his three-cone time of 6.85 seconds was the fastest in this year's edge rusher class and among the top times for all edge rushers in SackSEER's database. For other workouts, we had to use projections based on weight.

It is difficult to predict the future success of college players. That's why the two most similar prospects to Green are Moore, who finished his NFL career with 11 sacks, and Hutchinson, who might be the best edge rusher in the game today other than Myles Garrett. Projections are hard.

[*Go Cards*]

(04-06-2025, 06:30 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That would be a disrespectful proposal for what he's done for the team. The need to give him 3/$100M, wiping this year's remaining deal and guarantee the first two years. Anything less is telling the two time sack leader that he's nothing more that a "hired hand". If they found the creativity to give often injured Tee Higgins a "big boy" deal, they can at least do the same for lunch pail Trey.

Agree 100%

Yet Trey does not have Burrow going to bat for him. Not sure how this one will play out but Trey has earned his payday from somebody,

[SunsetBengal]

(Yesterday, 05:58 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Agree 100%

Yet Trey does not have Burrow going to bat for him. Not sure how this one will play out but Trey has earned his payday from somebody,

Looking like they may have struck a deal for 2 yrs/$62.9M.

http://https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/bengals-trey-hendrickson-gets-63-million-contract-update/ar-AA1Cujdt?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=0515445fc5f942e1a711d5d7d7660c94&ei=14

Quote:Trey Hendrickson might be closing in on a big payday.


The Bengals defensive end has been involved in a whole slate of contract ponderings and trade rumors this offseason.

An extension could be coming, says NFL Network's Ian Rapoport.

"I believe the Bengals would like to keep him and pay him, and make it work," Rapoport said on The Pat McAfee Show. "They are not in the business of letting good players go, so even when they granted him permission to seek a trade, I believe their best option was to sign him and pay him."

The Bengals have already extended receivers Ja'Marr Chase and Tee Higgins.

Getting Hendrickson signed to a long-term pact would be the next step toward the Bengals returning to the playoffs.

"We'll see if that happens," Rapoport said. "I still think it is very very possible. And if that happens, despite all the mess, it will be a really really good offseason in Cincinnati."

Hendrickson is projected by Spotrac to sign a two-year contract worth $62.9 million.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(Yesterday, 05:58 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Agree 100%

Yet Trey does not have Burrow going to bat for him. Not sure how this one will play out but Trey has earned his payday from somebody,

What? Burrow totally went to bat for Trey. His 4 were Tee, Chase, Trey, and Gesicki.

https://atozsports.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals-news/joe-burrow-first-take-bengals-contracts-jamarr-chase-tee-higgins-trey-hendrickson-mike-gesicki/

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(04-06-2025, 05:10 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The Bengals aren't trading Trey Hendrickson. Any deal that they can agree on that would pay him fairly for being the two time reigning sack leader would be far from "over paying". If they came up with the money for an often injured WR, they can certainly come up with money for the sack master.

Absolutely. 

Again, we'd have taken a Herschel Walker/Rickey Williams type trade offer for Trey or Tee. But nothing that wasn't completely lopsided for us was ever seriously on the table. 

And again, tgere is no one else on the team, outside of Burrow, Chase, Trey, & Tee, that warrants a big payday. Now or in the next year or two.

The window is now. Pay your stars. Retain your quality starters. Offload the dead weight/overpaid guys. And improve where you can via FA or draft. Be it starter upgrades, depth, situational guys, or all three.