Trey Hendrickson Update

[Sled21]

(9 hours ago)CJD Wrote: My reaction to this report was, "Talks never should have halted in the first place, but I'm glad they're talking again, I guess..."

The play by play announcing of things is a bit exhausting. They did this with Tee Higgins last year, with some twitter fans declaring he was signed, and then his mom refuted that, and then we all sat and waited for like 48 hours to see who was right. That's what this feels like.

I'd prefer we don't hear anything about it until the deal is done. Everything else is just purposeless noise, imo.

This is exacerbated by the fact many in the press always hope for bad things for the Bengals. They didn't want Joe to sign, they didn't want Higgins to sign, now they don't want Trey to sign. Their articles are all giddy with the prospects of X team getting him.

[THE PISTONS]

(9 hours ago)CJD Wrote: My reaction to this report was, "Talks never should have halted in the first place, but I'm glad they're talking again, I guess..."

The play by play announcing of things is a bit exhausting. They did this with Tee Higgins last year, with some twitter fans declaring he was signed, and then his mom refuted that, and then we all sat and waited for like 48 hours to see who was right. That's what this feels like.

I'd prefer we don't hear anything about it until the deal is done. Everything else is just purposeless noise, imo.

Talks naturally halt when both sides get to numbers they won't move away from. It's counterproductive to actually keep talking in that scenario.

Say the Bengals are at $28 million a year and wants $40 then comes down to $35. But, the Bengals won't go above their number and Trey won't go below his. What is there to talk about?

In the meantime, they let him seek a trade. This helps determine his value.

[THE PISTONS]

(9 hours ago)Sled21 Wrote: In your scenario with Trey sitting the season out, I would not trade him for anything less than a 1st round pick. He's the sack leader, right, and to some that's all that matters. So I would tell his agent bring in an offer of a 1st round pick, or be ready for OTA's next year after wasting one of his last years, because if he sits out we still own him when he returns. And then I would use his salary from this year to bring in a hired gun at guard. But I'm stubborn.

Yes. But, I think IF Trey sits out, he reports around Week 11 to count for a year of service. If he sits out the whole year, we still have 1 year left on his current contract. So he reports at some point, and we franchise him next year.

[CJD]

(8 hours ago)THE PISTONS Wrote: Talks naturally halt when both sides get to numbers they won't move away from. It's counterproductive to actually keep talking in that scenario.

Say the Bengals are at $28 million a year and wants $40 then comes down to $35. But, the Bengals won't go above their number and Trey won't go below his. What is there to talk about?

In the meantime, they let him seek a trade. This helps determine his value.

That's a fair point.

So this tweet essentially means one of the two camps folded? I wonder which one...

[Luvnit2]

(8 hours ago)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yes. But, I think IF Trey sits out, he reports around Week 11 to count for a year of service. If he sits out the whole year, we still have 1 year left on his current contract. So he reports at some point, and we franchise him next year.

If he waits to report week 11, he also will be playing the rest of the year for less than 6 million after he loses huge money in fines and 10 game checks.

He will be a year older and even less likely to get a long term deal if he sits out.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(8 hours ago)Sled21 Wrote: This is exacerbated by the fact many in the press always hope for bad things for the Bengals. They didn't want Joe to sign, they didn't want Higgins to sign, now they don't want Trey to sign. Their articles are all giddy with the prospects of X team getting him.

Very true, so many stealer fans in the press like Florio and alike always hoping for bad things for the Bengals.

[Luvnit2]

I may be wrong, but since it was leaked out they are back having discussions and we know the Bengals are one of the most tight lipped organizations, I assume Trey's side leaked it. I also assume it is a good sign and a deal is imminent.

I see Trey in 2025 TC as we march on towards getting back into the playoffs in 2025 and at least an 11 win season.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(8 hours ago)THE PISTONS Wrote: Talks naturally halt when both sides get to numbers they won't move away from. It's counterproductive to actually keep talking in that scenario.

Say the Bengals are at $28 million a year and wants $40 then comes down to $35. But, the Bengals won't go above their number and Trey won't go below his. What is there to talk about?

In the meantime, they let him seek a trade. This helps determine his value.

That is a fair point, but remember, there is more than just the yearly average payout. There is the guaranteed $$ and the length. 

If he wants more APY than the Bengals want to pay, he might be willing to come down with more upfront/guaranteed $$ or another year. 

And it is just silly to draw a line in the sand on Trey. If you want to save some $$$, then jettison Moss/Volson/Stone/Perine. Lordy. 

[*ochocincos*]

(3 hours ago)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: That is a fair point, but remember, there is more than just the yearly average payout. There is the guaranteed $$ and the length. 

If he wants more APY than the Bengals want to pay, he might be willing to come down with more upfront/guaranteed $$ or another year. 

And it is just silly to draw a line in the sand on Trey. If you want to save some $$$, then jettison Moss/Volson/Stone/Perine. Lordy. 

I feel like the Bengals have already done a good number of reworked deals for most of these backup/fringe guys to save money at this point.
Bengals have the 8th most cap space in the league right now at $32.6 mill, and they don't have a ton of money tied up in guarantees aside from Burrow, Higgins, and Chase.


There is always a possibility that one of the unexpected fringe guys ends up performing close to these guys and justify knocking them off the roster, but it's really just a matter of saving a mill or two here and there if it does happen.
They should have plenty of money to work with if they really wanted to.

[Luvnit2]

(2 hours ago)ochocincos Wrote: I feel like the Bengals have already done a good number of reworked deals for most of these backup/fringe guys to save money at this point.
Bengals have the 8th most cap space in the league right now at $32.6 mill, and they don't have a ton of money tied up in guarantees aside from Burrow, Higgins, and Chase.


There is always a possibility that one of the unexpected fringe guys ends up performing close to these guys and justify knocking them off the roster, but it's really just a matter of saving a mill or two here and there if it does happen.
They should have plenty of money to work with if they really wanted to.

I agree cap money is not the issue. I would be shocked if Bengals gave more than a 14 million dollar bonus, take him from 20 million to 34 million with a 14 million raise in 2025.

That was be a huge number if offered for Trey to wwalk away from. Heck, 10 to 12 million add versus potential loss for Trey if sits ot of losing 8 to 10 million is almost a 20 million swing.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(2 hours ago)ochocincos Wrote: I feel like the Bengals have already done a good number of reworked deals for most of these backup/fringe guys to save money at this point.
Bengals have the 8th most cap space in the league right now at $32.6 mill, and they don't have a ton of money tied up in guarantees aside from Burrow, Higgins, and Chase.


There is always a possibility that one of the unexpected fringe guys ends up performing close to these guys and justify knocking them off the roster, but it's really just a matter of saving a mill or two here and there if it does happen.
They should have plenty of money to work with if they really wanted to.

And that's with them going out of their way to raise both Tee and Chase's cap hits this year with the extensions rather than the norm of reducing it and pushing the cap hits to future years.

Justin Jefferson got his contract extension heading into his 5th year and had a $8.6m cap hit last year and a $15.2m cap hit this year.
Chase got his contract extension this year heading into his 5th year and has a $23.6m cap hit this year.

[Bengalitis]

Mike Brown gotta get that Super Bowl before his legacy ends... his dad already has a lot to be remembered by... Mike, hmm not so much, at least not positive stuff.. other than.. keeping the Bengals in the city I guess.... but that doesnt really count unless we're pulling straws..

[Luvnit2]

(2 hours ago)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: And that's with them going out of their way to raise both Tee and Chase's cap hits this year with the extensions rather than the norm of reducing it and pushing the cap hits to future years.

Justin Jefferson got his contract extension heading into his 5th year and had a $8.6m cap hit last year and a $15.2m cap hit this year.
Chase got his contract extension this year heading into his 5th year and has a $23.6m cap hit this year.

Help me understand that we used a lot of Tee and Chase cap hits and guaranteed money hits in 2025 is an issue. We did that and still have the 8th most cap room. We have Trey under contract for 2025 also and his 15.9 million on the books. 

Out of the 32 million, we have 2 rookie contracts (8 million cap hit), 2 extra 51-man roster spots or 2 million + 16 practiced squad players for 5 to 6 million. So, we have a minimum of 16 million to extend Trey in 2025 and still carry over cap for 2025 to 2026.

They had a plan for the money not just for 2025, but also 2026 and beyond. They had no plan to spend money on things you and I agree like anoth vert guard or safety. You want to say it is due to cap money, I disagree and say the feel OK with the rookie drafted and signing Patrick and hope Volson takes a step forward. The must like the safeties or feel none availble fit Golden's scheme.

They have plenty of cap money to put his entire raise (bonus) for 2025 into the 2025 cap so not sure why you keep beating the drum they striuctured the deal stopped them from doing more if they wanted to do more.

As for your examples, Vikings got a great cap hit with Jefferson in years one and 2, but he is guaranteed a ton of money and eventually the cap hit comes. They better hope he does not tear hs knee up or they will be eating dead cap and tons of it. There is good and bad to everything. I have also hoped we would get more agrressive like the Ravens or others, but only if the plan is to get that one great player to put us over the top, not just to spen money.

Also, just a tidbit, they could give Trey an extension that includes and 12 million dollar signing bonus and if afraid of the 2025 cap can put 100% in later years if they extend him 1 or 2 years. So, in essence they need no cap money in 2025 to extend Trey.

[kevin]

(9 hours ago)Sled21 Wrote: In your scenario with Trey sitting the season out, I would not trade him for anything less than a 1st round pick. He's the sack leader, right, and to some that's all that matters. So I would tell his agent bring in an offer of a 1st round pick, or be ready for OTA's next year after wasting one of his last years, because if he sits out we still own him when he returns. And then I would use his salary from this year to bring in a hired gun at guard. But I'm stubborn.

So Detroit and some of these teams with 2nd round picks on the table right now, per Sporting News, Sports Illustrated and such.  If one of these teams would kick it up a notch to a 1st round draft pick, you would pull the trigger.  Maybe make Trey one final offer and if he and his agent say no, then off he goes to the other team and Bengals get a top draft pick, as opposed to getting nothing if he sits out the season for March free agency. 

I agree with you. At some point making the trade for a top draft pick is the only smart move.  Either sign him or trade him.  Those who think going hard ball and making him sit out, that is silly because Bengals get nothing in return from that. 

There are a number of teams offering Bengals a 2nd round pick, and Detroit has been mentioned a lot.  Bengals could have made a trade for a 2nd round pick weeks ago.  

Like you, I would like to get a 1st round pick also.  However in the next draft if Bengals have their 1st round pick and two 2nd round picks, the Bengals could have a great draft that way also. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(1 hour ago)Luvnit2 Wrote: Help me understand that we used a lot of Tee and Chase cap hits and guaranteed money hits in 2025 is an issue.

Because you're not trying to fit as much talent as you can onto this team, which means you're already playing from behind.

The top-5 teams in combined AAV on their roster this year are..
49ers
Eagles
Texans
Bills
Lions

Averaged they have $410m in combined AAV on their rosters this year. We are 18th at $324m. They're operating under the same salary cap as us, but they were able to put on average another $86m in AAV of talent on their team than we have.

Think how much better our roster would be if theoretically we had on our roster for 2025 all the current players we have plus another $26m/yr DE, two $20m/yr OGs, and a $20m/yr S or something like that. 

That's the difference between trying to fit all the talent you can on your current roster. If we were a bad team with no hopes for postseason success, then by all means eat those big early cap hits now since it doesn't matter... but we're not. We have a QB in a window for a SB. Oh no, you might have some big cap hits in 2028 (or it could not be a problem and you just smooth it out their next contract). Either way who cares if it means you have 3 straight improved shots at a SB/SBs?

We have 5 guys making >$15m/yr and 4 guys making >$20m/yr.
The Eagles (1st in AAV) have 9 and 7.
The Lions (5th in AAV) have 7 and 6.

[*ochocincos*]

(1 hour ago)Luvnit2 Wrote: Help me understand that we used a lot of Tee and Chase cap hits and guaranteed money hits in 2025 is an issue. We did that and still have the 8th most cap room. We have Trey under contract for 2025 also and his 15.9 million on the books. 

Our of the 32 milliion, we have 2 rookie contracts (8 million cap hit), 2 extra 51 man roster spots or 2 million + 16 practicd squad players for 5 to 6 million. So, we have a minimum of 16 million to etnd Trey in 2025 and still carry over cap for 2025 to 2026.

They had a plan for the money not just for 2025, but also 2026 and beyond. They had no plan to spend money on things you and I agree like anoth vert guard or safety. You want to say it is due to cap money, I disagree and say the feel OK with the rookie drafted and signing Patrick and hope Volson takes a step forward. The must like the safeties or feel none availble fit Golden's scheme.

They have plenty of cap money to put his entire raise (bonus) for 2025 into the 2025 cap so not sure why you keep beating the drum they striuctured the deal stopped them from doing more if they wanted to do more.

As for your examples, Vikings got a great cap hit with Jefferson in years one and 2, but he is guaranteed a ton of money and eventually the cap hit comes. They better hope he does not tear hs knee up or they will be eating dead cap and tons of it. There is good and bad to everything. I have also hoped we would get more agrressive like the Ravens or others, but only if the plan is to get that one great player to put us over the top, not just to spen money.

Also, just a tidbit, they could give Trey an extension that includes and 12 million dollar signing bonus and if afraid of the 2025 cap can put 100% in later years if they extend him 1 or 2 years. So, in essence they need no cap money in 2025 to extend Trey.

I, for one, was hoping they would have been more active in FA this past year, signing a better OG instead of Patrick and a different DE to replace Hubbard.

I personally wanted James Daniels instead of Lucas Patrick (or could have added LP as well, just not as a planned contender to start).
Daniels is just as versatile as LP, showing ability to play all IOL spots between college and NFL.
He signed for just 3 years, $24 mill with just $10.75 mill guaranteed.
That could have been swung easily in hindsight seeing how much cap the Bengals ended up having.

I also wanted Chase Young as a Hubbard replacement/insurance if Hendrickson leaves. CY opposite TH would have been arguably a (big) improvement over the question marks they have now.
Young signed for just 3 years, $51 mill with $33 mill guaranteed.
Bengals could have done that instead of using a draft pick on Stewart, instead putting that toward another position like a pass-rushing DT in Derrick Harmon or SAF to replace Stone after this season.

But now we see all this cap sitting around waiting for the Bengals to do something with it, hoping at this point it goes toward Hendrickson because why else did they hold onto it instead of using it to fill out the team better in FA?

[Luvnit2]

(1 hour ago)kevin Wrote: So Detroit and some of these teams with 2nd round picks on the table right now, per Sporting News, Sports Illustrated and such.  If one of these teams would kick it up a notch to a 1st round draft pick, you would pull the trigger.  Maybe make Trey one final offer and if he and his agent say no, then off he goes to the other team and Bengals get a top draft pick, as opposed to getting nothing if he sits out the season for March free agency. 

I agree with you. At some point making the trade for a top draft pick is the only smart move.  Either sign him or trade him.  Those who think going hard ball and making him sit out, that is silly because Bengals get nothing in return from that. 

There are a number of teams offering Bengals a 2nd round pick, and Detroit has been mentioned a lot.  Bengals could have made a trade for a 2nd round pick weeks ago.  

Like you, I would like to get a 1st round pick also.  However in the next draft if Bengals have their 1st round pick and two 2nd round picks, the Bengals could have a great draft that way also. 

I would need more from Detroit or any team projected to be in top 15% record wise in 2025. A 1st from them is closer to a second round pick.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(50 minutes ago)ochocincos Wrote: I, for one, was hoping they would have been more active in FA this past year, signing a better OG instead of Patrick and a different DE to replace Hubbard.

I personally wanted James Daniels instead of Lucas Patrick (or could have added LP as well, just not as a planned contender to start).
Daniels is just as versatile as LP, showing ability to play all IOL spots between college and NFL.
He signed for just 3 years, $24 mill with just $10.75 mill guaranteed.
That could have been swung easily in hindsight seeing how much cap the Bengals ended up having.

I also wanted Chase Young as a Hubbard replacement/insurance if Hendrickson leaves. CY opposite TH would have been arguably a (big) improvement over the question marks they have now.
Young signed for just 3 years, $51 mill with $33 mill guaranteed.
Bengals could have done that instead of using a draft pick on Stewart, instead putting that toward another position like a pass-rushing DT in Derrick Harmon or SAF to replace Stone after this season.

But now we see all this cap sitting around waiting for the Bengals to do something with it, hoping at this point it goes toward Hendrickson because why else did they hold onto it instead of using it to fill out the team better in FA?

I can't see it going anywhere else, at this point.

[Luvnit2]

(53 minutes ago)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Because you're not trying to fit as much talent as you can onto this team, which means you're already playing from behind.

The top-5 teams in combined AAV on their roster this year are..
49ers
Eagles
Texans
Bills
Lions

Averaged they have $410m in combined AAV on their rosters this year. We are 18th at $324m. They're operating under the same salary cap as us, but they were able to put on average another $86m in AAV of talent on their team than we have.

Think how much better our roster would be if theoretically we had on our roster for 2025 all the current players we have plus another $26m/yr DE, two $20m/yr OGs, and a $20m/yr S or something like that. 

That's the difference between trying to fit all the talent you can on your current roster. If we were a bad team with no hopes for postseason success, then by all means eat those big early cap hits now since it doesn't matter... but we're not. We have a QB in a window for a SB. Oh no, you might have some big cap hits in 2028 (or it could not be a problem and you just smooth it out their next contract). Either way who cares if it means you have 3 straight improved shots at a SB/SBs?

We have 5 guys making >$15m/yr and 4 guys making >$20m/yr.
The Eagles (1st in AAV) have 9 and 7.
The Lions (5th in AAV) have 7 and 6.

Again you are assuming you know better about the talent available right now than our FO. It is bad business and policy to spend money for the sake of spending money. But more so as I pointed out, they still with 6 weeks from TC have a ton of money left to extend Trey and sign the 2 draft picks and complete the roster.

If the Bengals did find a team willing to trade a stud, they could easily find more cap money by retsruturing Joe. But in my opinion it is dumb to do so unless you have the great player in your sights versus a possible wanna be signing.

OK, Eagles won the Super Bowl and also had a huge roster turnover. Has Detroit won anything yet? No, they have not won the NFC or made a Super Bowl so it could be argued they wasted money last year that could have been used in 2025 and beyond.

I know I am in the minority with a healthy Joe Burrow, we have a shot every year at winning the AFC and the Super Bowl. You don't think so and that is OK as well.

If they get Trey signed, we have a better shot, not great odds wise, but better so I. hope they get it done. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(37 minutes ago)Luvnit2 Wrote: Again you are assuming you know better about the talent available right now than our FO.

Did you actually want me to answer the question you asked me of why it could be a negative, or were you just setting up this unproductive asshole response? This is why I considered for about 5 minutes not even responding to your post in the first place before giving you the benefit of the doubt (apparently wrongly) and trying to respond in good faith.