This is the moment when AJ McCarron becomes a star

[wolfkaosaun]

(12-29-2015, 06:21 AM)Stonyhands Wrote: I couldn't figure out why the issues with the play clock.  It seemed like mass confusion coming out of the huddle.  Then the throw to Gio on a third down after he was clearly trying to get off the field due to fatigue or injury.  Hue did no favors in this game with his shitty slow play calling.  My best guess was that having Hewitt leave the game early really messed up his game plan and he never fully recovered.  Plays were very late getting in and substitutions were embarrassing to say the least.  

Not to mention when you play good teams in prime time you have to score every chance and having an inconsistent kicker like Nugent really hurts.

With the way McCarron was playing, I'm surprised that they didn't keep him in some type of rhythm. I may be critical of him, but he did have a solid first half. It's the second half I have an issue with.

The Broncos played up tight with the receivers after awhile. That's why quick passes didn't really do too well. It seemed they were willing to give up the deep pass and stay tight with the receivers.

[Stonyhands]

(12-29-2015, 06:28 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: From Coley Harvey "AJ Green basically misread safety. Saw something early in route that caused that. He said he shouldn't have stopped. "

So when you have Green, someone who has seen cover 2's, going one way, and someone who hasn't seen NFL cover 2 much throwing another way, things like this are bound to happen. Miscommunication.

Not really a missed FG away. The Broncos were at the Bengals 38 with over a minute to go and 2 timeouts. It only would have been a 20-17 game at that point.

He did well in the beginning. I agree completely with that. But he struggled in the 2nd half. It's not how you start games, it's how you finish them.

And that playoffs weren't on the line. A bye week was. This was like a playoff game. There are no qualifiers. You win or lose. Period.

Again it doesn't make any sense to run a guy to the corner as you suggest when all of his targets are to the right.  No QB is going to read the right side of the field and then fire all the way to the far left corner of the field.  Period.  


Secondly this game went into overtime.  Had we made our FG and McManus missed theirs we would have won with time running out.  Hence, a missed FG from winning the game.  Yes, playoffs were on the line as Denver, prior to this game, had not locked in a playoff spot.  

Secondly, AJ wasn't running the ball and he wasn't calling the plays.  That O-line and run game struggled to the tune of 33 rushes at 3.3 yds/ carry.  

Now let's not forget the defense that not once but twice allowed back to back drives down the field for potential game winner/OT winning FGs.  Plus let's not forget the Hillman TD run where we failed to tackle him several times.  

But yes let's harp on the QB who started his second career NFL game.  Let's especially rag on him for not heaving the ball up across his body, under pressure, to the opposite side of the field, only because Green gave up running up the middle.  I'm sure if AJ threw the ball to the corner and nobody was there you'd be saying why didn't AJ throw it to where AJ was headed.  

So therefore because Green stopped running and AJs pass fell incomplete and we lost the game and the first round bye..that means AJ is bad at zone coverage.  Ok buddy.  

[Stonyhands]

(12-29-2015, 06:32 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: With the way McCarron was playing, I'm surprised that they didn't keep him in some type of rhythm. I may be critical of him, but he did have a solid first half. It's the second half I have an issue with.

The Broncos played up tight with the receivers after awhile. That's why quick passes didn't really do too well. It seemed they were willing to give up the deep pass and stay tight with the receivers.

They stayed right with the receivers in man as well.  So this doesn't fit your AJ sucks at zone agenda.  

Hue stopped calling for those passes.  I could see if AJ went to pass and he was forcing throws or was way off but that wasn't the case here.  Making bad reads was not the case.  We ran the ball right at their defense and tried a lot of stretch plays and screens and they just didn't work.  

Hue stopped calling for pass plays to our WRs for a big period of time and I'm not sure why.  AJ made some awesome throws to our Croft and Burkheadon third down but refused to throw much at all in the third quarter.  Very poor play calling lost this game along with very bad defense in the end.

[PDub80]

You guys bashing AJ McCarron for his play are just out of control. Go take 2 mins to read the play by play for the 2nd half of the game. You will be disgusted. The Bengals went short or run with OVER 90% of their plays. Even on the fumble at the end it was 2nd and 10 and there were 2 guys running 3 yard routes, which was on par for the whole 2nd half. http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=400791578

AJ McCarron went on the road on Monday Night against one of the best teams in football with one of the best defenses in football and didn't wilt. He stepped up and had the Bengals in position to win all night. It was his teammates who missed their opportunities and his coaches who shrunk away from putting the game out of reach by going safe. AJ didn't cause the Bengals to fall behind. Didn't cough up stupid INTs. Didn't throw almost intercepted passes. AJ McCarron didn't kill drives out of ineptness. He didn't get confused or look lost. He didn't force anything. He made some amazing throws, great plays with his legs, and some great decisions (throwing it away when the play was dead) on as bright a stage and with as much on the line as there has been in the NFL ALL YEAR.

He had some spectacular throws and scrambles. Absolutely spectacular! He played much better than AD did against a lesser opponent, the Texans, earlier this season on Monday night. Might I add that that game was at home.

Before people get all worked up over his fumbled snap....


- Classic Marvin Lewis conservative turtle mode in the 2nd half neutered the offense. Don't believe me... Then why were the Bengals moving the ball and able to score when behind? Because they were throwing down field. Why weren't they moving the ball when they were ahead? Because they were calling mostly short plays. PERIOD. It wasn't AJ being confused by the zone or anything BS like that. The coaches turtled. 
- Missed FG ended up being huge.
- Poor 2nd half D.
- Running game got nothing in the 2nd half which killed play action, which was working.
- AJ Green admittedly quit on a route that he shouldn't have. AJ McCarron put that up after seeing him beat his man and put it in a spot that, had he kept running, only AJ would have caught it... in stride. It was the right pass, accurately thrown. By his own admission after the game, the WR quit and said it was 100% on him. And he is 100% right.
- Another deep ball well thrown down the middle in stride and dropped right into AJs hands. CB made a good play, but should/could... wasn't caught.

McCarron had ONE bad play all night. It happened to be at a time when it mattered most. I guess I just look at all of the BS that went down to even bring it into that moment. I am not discouraged at all by McCarron's play. Not at all. And neither should anyone else. The 2015 Bengals are going to be better in the playoffs for what happened in Denver. All of them (with the exception of the turtle minded coach).

It was an impressive game from a guy in his 2nd NFL start. I am NOT saying he is better than AD or should start over him or anything like that. But, from watching the game, he actually wasn't worse than what AD can be in those moments so I am not discouraged in the least and came away 100% impressed and encouraged for the playoffs.

[Whacked]

^Lots if truth in this post

Those of you that know me know I am anything but a homer. I am a total realist and post negative crap when it's deserved (and catch crap for it here).

AJ did very well in my opinion - especially given the extremely difficult environment he came into. I was very impressed. The Coaches lost this one. Marv's pathetic 2nd half adjustments are always a BUST.

[bengal kitten uk]

I was really impressed with AJ McCarron last night and basically agree with everything PDub80 said above.

The man handled the spotlight, made some throws into tight windows and didn't turn the football over. He also made some good runs, despite being described by people as a "human statue in the pocket".

This game was lost in the 3rd Quarter due to cowardly play calling where the coaches would rather run for 2 yards into an 8 man box than risk their QB possibly throwing a pick. And of course, when we fell behind and started airing it out our receivers had gone off the boil (well, AJG had).

Now the real question is how damaged is his left wrist and will he be available for the Wild Card round, because if we don't have AD or AJM then this season is truly lost

[gobobro]

I think AJM looked like a solid kid making his second start in the NFL. He, like the rest of the team, almost played well enough to win.

I was happy enough with his performance to think he can lead us to victory next week if available, and understanding enough of where he is in the growth process to hope like Hell Andy can make it back for the playoffs...

AJM is, for now, exactly what you hope for in a backup. He's good enough for you to have a chance any week he starts. Any projections beyond that are tough to make.

[reuben.ahmed]

Our special teams played poorly in that game, piss poor. Huber wasn't pinning punts, and out ST players let some bounce. Nuge, we know what happened. And B. Tate gave us one mediocre runback.

The inability to flip position or hold field position for our defense is going to kill us in the playoffs, out of everything - we need a major upgrade from Brandon Tate.

I'll go as far as to say if Adam Jones was returning every kick/punt in that game, we would have won, all else being equal.

[reuben.ahmed]

I read a couple of niners fans are interested in McCarron. So it begins, lol.

[Whacked]

(12-29-2015, 10:55 AM)gobobro Wrote: I think AJM looked like a solid kid making his second start in the NFL. He, like the rest of the team, almost played well enough to win.

I was happy enough with his performance to think he can lead us to victory next week if available, and understanding enough of where he is in the growth process to hope like Hell Andy can make it back for the playoffs...

AJM is, for now, exactly what you hope for in a backup. He's good enough for you to have a chance any week he starts. Any projections beyond that are tough to make.

Nailed it 

No Eifert, only 2nd game as a starter, playing AWAY, against the #1 D in the NFL? Dude played his heart out. I will eat crow as I thought we would lose handedly

[drgonzo]

He looked pretty good to me, no major mistakes, just like its been stated a hundred times before, poor play calling in the second half(like almost every second half). He may not have the awareness or experience of Dalton but I think he throws a better ball, not saying that I would rather have aj Mac starting, but I think if green wasn't so used to Dalton he doesn't give up on that play.........imo anyway.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-29-2015, 10:55 AM)gobobro Wrote: I think AJM looked like a solid kid making his second start in the NFL. He, like the rest of the team, almost played well enough to win.

I was happy enough with his performance to think he can lead us to victory next week if available, and understanding enough of where he is in the growth process to hope like Hell Andy can make it back for the playoffs...

AJM is, for now, exactly what you hope for in a backup. He's good enough for you to have a chance any week he starts. Any projections beyond that are tough to make.

This. Right. Here.

[bonesaw]

(12-29-2015, 07:48 AM)PDub80 Wrote: You guys bashing AJ McCarron for his play are just out of control. Go take 2 mins to read the play by play for the 2nd half of the game. You will be disgusted. The Bengals went short or run with OVER 90% of their plays. Even on the fumble at the end it was 2nd and 10 and there were 2 guys running 3 yard routes, which was on par for the whole 2nd half. http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=400791578

AJ McCarron went on the road on Monday Night against one of the best teams in football with one of the best defenses in football and didn't wilt. He stepped up and had the Bengals in position to win all night. It was his teammates who missed their opportunities and his coaches who shrunk away from putting the game out of reach by going safe. AJ didn't cause the Bengals to fall behind. Didn't cough up stupid INTs. Didn't throw almost intercepted passes. AJ McCarron didn't kill drives out of ineptness. He didn't get confused or look lost. He didn't force anything. He made some amazing throws, great plays with his legs, and some great decisions (throwing it away when the play was dead) on as bright a stage and with as much on the line as there has been in the NFL ALL YEAR.

He had some spectacular throws and scrambles. Absolutely spectacular! He played much better than AD did against a lesser opponent, the Texans, earlier this season on Monday night. Might I add that that game was at home.

Before people get all worked up over his fumbled snap....


- Classic Marvin Lewis conservative turtle mode in the 2nd half neutered the offense. Don't believe me... Then why were the Bengals moving the ball and able to score when behind? Because they were throwing down field. Why weren't they moving the ball when they were ahead? Because they were calling mostly short plays. PERIOD. It wasn't AJ being confused by the zone or anything BS like that. The coaches turtled. 
- Missed FG ended up being huge.
- Poor 2nd half D.
- Running game got nothing in the 2nd half which killed play action, which was working.
- AJ Green admittedly quit on a route that he shouldn't have. AJ McCarron put that up after seeing him beat his man and put it in a spot that, had he kept running, only AJ would have caught it... in stride. It was the right pass, accurately thrown. By his own admission after the game, the WR quit and said it was 100% on him. And he is 100% right.
- Another deep ball well thrown down the middle in stride and dropped right into AJs hands. CB made a good play, but should/could... wasn't caught.

McCarron had ONE bad play all night. It happened to be at a time when it mattered most. I guess I just look at all of the BS that went down to even bring it into that moment. I am not discouraged at all by McCarron's play. Not at all. And neither should anyone else. The 2015 Bengals are going to be better in the playoffs for what happened in Denver. All of them (with the exception of the turtle minded coach).

It was an impressive game from a guy in his 2nd NFL start. I am NOT saying he is better than AD or should start over him or anything like that. But, from watching the game, he actually wasn't worse than what AD can be in those moments so I am not discouraged in the least and came away 100% impressed and encouraged for the playoffs.

This guy watched the game. He played pretty good.  The coaching hindered the whole offense in the 2nd half.  Coaching has been pretty stellar this year but they need to own up and say we babied the QB and the lead.  

Why can't people be honest about McCarron or Andy.  

Andy is a very good QB

McCarron is a good QB with added experience he will be a very good QB.  

You can like both guys everyone, we're lucky to have both 

[Joelist]

McCarron has now been in three games. And in all three we have seen both plays taking too long to get in from the sidelines and the offense taking too long to get set. These remove the ability to audible properly. These to me go on the coaches, who should have been emphasizing getting set quickly in practice and at game time they need to have a set of pre called plays to avoid the paralysis issues.

The other problem however is post snap and does go on McCarron. He is taking too long to go through progressions and his release time is too slow as a result. While the offense did get spoiled with Andy's 2.2 second release time AJ has to get his down some because right now it is not good. He doesn't need to hit 2.2 seconds but it has to improve because it is asking the line to hold blocks too long.

I am hoping they can coach the speed up on his release.

[gobobro]

For what it's worth, I listened to Lap discuss the game (and I put a ton of stock in what he says). He thinks the Bengals would have won the game by a couple of touchdowns with Dalton, and way more than that with Dalton and Eifert.

In essence:

1. Andy's pre-snap reads would have checked them out of many of the drive killers (I saw someone tweet a screen cap in which the Broncos had 9 defenders in the box and AJM still ran the run play to Hill).

2. Andy's post snap quickness would have gotten the ball to open receivers AJM just couldn't see.

3. The move to zone coverage by the Broncos wouldn't have hindered Dalton, and he'd have destroyed that zone with Eifert.


None of that is a knock on AJM, who showed great stuff. It's just the difference between a guy making his second start, and a fifth year QB having a Hell of a season. AJM can't see everything Andy can, can't make the checks Andy can, and the game hasn't slowed down enough for him to react quick enough. It happens. All QBs have this adjustment period. The positive for AJM is that he's trending well for a guy at his experience level.

[Beaker]

(12-30-2015, 11:16 AM)gobobro Wrote: For what it's worth, I listened to Lap discuss the game (and I put a ton of stock in what he says). He thinks the Bengals would have won the game by a couple of touchdowns with Dalton, and way more than that with Dalton and Eifert.

In essence:

1. Andy's pre-snap reads would have checked them out of many of the drive killers (I saw someone tweet a screen cap in which the Broncos had 9 defenders in the box and AJM still ran the run play to Hill).

2. Andy's post snap quickness would have gotten the ball to open receivers AJM just couldn't see.

3. The move to zone coverage by the Broncos wouldn't have hindered Dalton, and he'd have destroyed that zone with Eifert.


None of that is a knock on AJM, who showed great stuff. It's just the difference between a guy making his second start, and a fifth year QB having a Hell of a season. AJM can't see everything Andy can, can't make the checks Andy can, and the game hasn't slowed down enough for him to react quick enough. It happens. All QBs have this adjustment period. The positive for AJM is that he's trending well for a guy at his experience level.

The exact reasons why AJM needs to play against the ravens. He needs the experience. The more D he sees and learns to read, the better he will perform in the next game. Which in this case will be playoffs.

[gobobro]

(12-30-2015, 12:13 PM)Beaker Wrote: The exact reasons why AJM needs to play against the ravens. He needs the experience. The more D he sees and learns to read, the better he will perform in the next game. Which in this case will be playoffs.

I agree, and can't imagine anyone wanting to sit AJM until Andy is ready to return.

I just don't think people should expect too much from him... Bill Polian talked about the progression of quarterbacks once. I may muck up the timeline a bit, but he essentially broke it down like this:

Year 1: quarterback learns to call the offense
Year 2: quarterback learns to read defenses
Year 3: quarterback learns the deeper concepts of offenses and defenses
Year 4: quarterback learns to manipulate defenses to expose matchups


AJM is doing great, and needs all the playtime he can get, but we can't expect him to be doing much more than calling the plays he's given. He's just not there yet. :)

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-30-2015, 11:16 AM)gobobro Wrote: For what it's worth, I listened to Lap discuss the game (and I put a ton of stock in what he says). He thinks the Bengals would have won the game by a couple of touchdowns with Dalton, and way more than that with Dalton and Eifert.

In essence:

1. Andy's pre-snap reads would have checked them out of many of the drive killers (I saw someone tweet a screen cap in which the Broncos had 9 defenders in the box and AJM still ran the run play to Hill).

2. Andy's post snap quickness would have gotten the ball to open receivers AJM just couldn't see.

3. The move to zone coverage by the Broncos wouldn't have hindered Dalton, and he'd have destroyed that zone with Eifert.


None of that is a knock on AJM, who showed great stuff. It's just the difference between a guy making his second start, and a fifth year QB having a Hell of a season. AJM can't see everything Andy can, can't make the checks Andy can, and the game hasn't slowed down enough for him to react quick enough. It happens. All QBs have this adjustment period. The positive for AJM is that he's trending well for a guy at his experience level.

Which are things I suggested in the GameDay thread.....but I was "just going off of what dumbass Jon Gruden said" when it came to the part about reading zones....

[Joelist]

(12-30-2015, 01:31 PM)Wyche Wrote: Which are things I suggested in the GameDay thread.....but I was "just going off of what dumbass Jon Gruden said" when it came to the part about reading zones....

I know that well. I also think that Andy would have eaten them alive in that zone package.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-30-2015, 01:50 PM)Joelist Wrote: I know that well. I also think that Andy would have eaten them alive in that zone package.

The worst part?  That some of these people think I just take their word for it.  I know what I was witnessing with my own two eyes....I couldn't believe I was watching Denver leave one on one with AJ Green....even asked how long were they going to try it.  Gruden kinda echoed some sentiments (although he obviously didn't know he was, lol).....even if I was just parroting Gruden, wouldn't it make more sense to take the suggestion of a former Super Bowl champion NFL head coach over a fan?