Outcoached

[milksheikh]

The team decided to let them come back in the game for whatever reason..

A very depressing and disappointing loss.

[fisherscatfan]

(12-29-2015, 08:19 AM)bengal kitten uk Wrote: (from http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2015/07/28/why-have-bengals-been-battered-second-half--playoff-games/30731653/)

Just another "playoff" game where our team completely changed in the second half.  With the history we have it's hard to make an argument for anything other than a coaching problem.  Why Hue kept calling obvious runs against 8 and 9 man fronts when the short passing game worked in the first half we will probably never know, but that's the main reason we lost.

The culture of a lack of discipline had as much to do with losing as anything.  This isn't the only time receivers have not run routes.  Chad Johnson did this all the time.  Burfict doesn't keep getting these penalties if it is not tolerated.  There is a fundamental culture issue with this team and that is on coaching.  Kickers miss, drops happen etc and that is always part of the game.  Continued lack of 100% effort and stupid lack of discipline penalties is on coaching in my opinion.

[Interceptor]

(12-29-2015, 07:53 AM)Captain Happy Pants Wrote: Like classic Marvin Lewis, they blow a significant half time lead and look like a completely different team in the second half.  AJ Green disappeared.  Defense disappeared.  

One and done again

This game looked eerily similar to the 2005 playoffs against the Steelers:

1st Half - move-the-chains maintainable short-yardage ball control  
2nd Half - abandon what worked and go with feast-or-famine vanilla run game or long ball

[StLucieBengal]

outcoached gets tossed around a lot around here... Fact is we often our coach the other team.    But given some bengals fan inability to compliment anything Marvin Lewis or Mike Brown because they hold some hatred for these two based off some silly sports talk radio nonsense that was started by Bob Trumpy and still festers today.  

I guess you guys want a team like the Browns or redskins who constantly make changes.   Because you know they are "demanding" the best.....    

We have good coaches because of marvin lewis.   He has cultivated these guys.  Even Zim was on the scrap heap of coaches until Marvin brought him on and got him with Pauly, a guy marvin brought with him from Washington.   Zim is now a head coach because he rehabbed his career under marvins direction.    Jay is a head coach because under marvin he gained legitimacy.   Hue will be a head coach because he has once again rehabbed his image under marvin.    Every time hue works with marvin he gets a promotion.  

In a year or two We will lose Pauly.   And probably Vance as well.    But marvin will hire guys who will become the next guys.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-29-2015, 12:26 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: outcoached gets tossed around a lot around here... Fact is we often our coach the other team.    But given some bengals fan inability to compliment anything Marvin Lewis or Mike Brown because they hold some hatred for these two based off some silly sports talk radio nonsense that was started by Bob Trumpy and still festers today.  

I guess you guys want a team like the Browns or redskins who constantly make changes.   Because you know they are "demanding" the best.....    

We have good coaches because of marvin lewis.   He has cultivated these guys.  Even Zim was on the scrap heap of coaches until Marvin brought him on and got him with Pauly, a guy marvin brought with him from Washington.   Zim is now a head coach because he rehabbed his career under marvins direction.    Jay is a head coach because under marvin he gained legitimacy.   Hue will be a head coach because he has once again rehabbed his image under marvin.    Every time hue works with marvin he gets a promotion.  

In a year or two We will lose Pauly.   And probably Vance as well.    But marvin will hire guys who will become the next guys.

Looks like we shoulda promoted his staff instead of losing them....

[PApinhead]

(12-29-2015, 12:26 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: outcoached gets tossed around a lot around here... Fact is we often our coach the other team.    But given some bengals fan inability to compliment anything Marvin Lewis or Mike Brown because they hold some hatred for these two based off some silly sports talk radio nonsense that was started by Bob Trumpy and still festers today.  

I guess you guys want a team like the Browns or redskins who constantly make changes.   Because you know they are "demanding" the best.....    

We have good coaches because of marvin lewis.   He has cultivated these guys.  Even Zim was on the scrap heap of coaches until Marvin brought him on and got him with Pauly, a guy marvin brought with him from Washington.   Zim is now a head coach because he rehabbed his career under marvins direction.    Jay is a head coach because under marvin he gained legitimacy.   Hue will be a head coach because he has once again rehabbed his image under marvin.    Every time hue works with marvin he gets a promotion.  

In a year or two We will lose Pauly.   And probably Vance as well.    But marvin will hire guys who will become the next guys.

No, we don't often out coach the other team, especially not in big games and playoff games.  I readily admit I am not a fan of Marvin, but it has nothing to with "some silly sports talk radio nonsense" as I don't listen to it.  It is based on what I see.  He is a decent coach who was able to bring us out of the consistent losing seasons, but even he has had those.  He is just not a coach that is capable of leading his team to a Super Bowl, let alone win one.  Yes, Marvin seems to be a good evaluator of talent, but I wonder how many of these coaches are good despite Marvin?

And where has anyone said they want to constantly make changes?  I just want a coaching staff that can get us a Super Bowl and don't think the one we have, especially Marvin, is going to get us there.

[masonbengals fan]

(12-29-2015, 12:26 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: outcoached gets tossed around a lot around here... Fact is we often our coach the other team.    But given some bengals fan inability to compliment anything Marvin Lewis or Mike Brown because they hold some hatred for these two based off some silly sports talk radio nonsense that was started by Bob Trumpy and still festers today.  

I guess you guys want a team like the Browns or redskins who constantly make changes.   Because you know they are "demanding" the best.....    

We have good coaches because of marvin lewis.   He has cultivated these guys.  Even Zim was on the scrap heap of coaches until Marvin brought him on and got him with Pauly, a guy marvin brought with him from Washington.   Zim is now a head coach because he rehabbed his career under marvins direction.    Jay is a head coach because under marvin he gained legitimacy.   Hue will be a head coach because he has once again rehabbed his image under marvin.    Every time hue works with marvin he gets a promotion.  


In a year or two We will lose Pauly.   And probably Vance as well.    But marvin will hire guys who will become the next guys.

Not sure if it has anything to do with talk radio but you're right, the coaches are always the first to get thrown under the bus. Goes with the job. I too have complained about some of Marvin's faults over the years but he has lead a turnaround for this franchise & that can't be denied. Hindsight after a loss is easy to do. Without a doubt we could all be second guessed in our own jobs if afforded the luxury of hindsight.

[BritishBengal]

So we are just going to ignore the field goal miss, overthrows, route where AJ slowed on what would have been a TD, many penalties and poor run blocking?

The boards here always seem to want a dynamic coach, someone who makes radical adjustments. Well the best at that is Belichick and he had a shocker last game. Other coaches like Rex Ryan, Jeff Fisher and Ron Rivera have thrown games because of bad calls and tweaks.

Ultimately keeping momentum for 4 quarters is very very hard. It's the reason why most games finish close. Execution of plays will always be more important than coaching changes. In the past I would argue the Bengals have been poorly prepared and looked flat, but they started well yesterday. Winning yesterday will always have come down to taking the chances to score and limiting mistakes. We had one costly FG miss and the killer fumble. But lets not forget the game could easily have been lost if the refs had overturned Von Miller's (probable) fumble and the Broncos hit the chip shot FG in regulation.

[Daddy-O]

Yep. And unfortunately it is becoming more and more apparent. Last night took the cake for me. We didn't adjust to what Denver was doing, period.

It just pisses me off that they tried to hang on and didn't open it up. Marvin Lewis has no balls. When Denver changed their philosophy in the 3rd quarter we should have gone to a hurry up to keep them off guard. Of course that doesn't play into "trying not to lose" philosophy Marvin loves rather than going for the jugular.

And that's my biggest beef with Marvin. If we get a lead he plays the conservative field position game with his offense thinking that the defense will shut them down. All this does is play into the opponent and turns time of possession in their favor, thus wearing down your own team.

For years I've been a Marvin Lewis apologist but I've seen enough. He coaches scared. No way with the talent they have on offense should they not attack all game. And that's on him as the head man. Ever see NE play conservative? Nope. Marvin is weak, pure and simple, and that's why his prime time and playoff game records are pathetic. Sadly, I see the same thing happening again this year in the playoffs - and it shouldn't with this team.

[StLucieBengal]

(12-29-2015, 12:59 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: Not sure if it has anything to do with talk radio but you're right, the coaches are always the first to get thrown under the bus. Goes with the job. I too have complained about some of Marvin's faults over the years but he has lead a turnaround for this franchise & that can't be denied. Hindsight after a loss is easy to do. Without a doubt we could all be second guessed in our own jobs if afforded the luxury of hindsight.

When I referenced talk radio I am referring to the fans hatred for mike brown and anything he supports. Local talk radio is exactly why we have an unsupportive fan base in this town. Not saying it needs to be all roses and atta boys .... But anyone who was here heard all the nonsense that Trumpy got started.

Now we boo 8-0 teams. Boo our Qb at a charity softball game. Seriously we all need to have a word with ourselves when stuff like this goes on.

[Daddy-O]

(12-29-2015, 10:49 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: We Lost because we couldnt move the ball in the 2nd half and the defense got gassed.

Problems you have with a backup QB vs the #1 Defense.


Yep your absolutely right.. I mean wrong...  unless your suggesting it was a coaching decision for the players to stop tackling.

Bullsh!t.  When you play conservative you end up not sustaining drives which puts your defense on the field longer than it needs to be.  It adds up and they get tired.  Missing tackles is a result of fatigue.  That's coaching.  You'd think Marvin would eventually learn this lesson.

[*Nately120*]

(12-29-2015, 12:26 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: outcoached gets tossed around a lot around here... Fact is we often our coach the other team.    But given some bengals fan inability to compliment anything Marvin Lewis or Mike Brown because they hold some hatred for these two based off some silly sports talk radio nonsense that was started by Bob Trumpy and still festers today.  

I guess you guys want a team like the Browns or redskins who constantly make changes.   Because you know they are "demanding" the best.....    

We have good coaches because of marvin lewis.   He has cultivated these guys.  Even Zim was on the scrap heap of coaches until Marvin brought him on and got him with Pauly, a guy marvin brought with him from Washington.   Zim is now a head coach because he rehabbed his career under marvins direction.    Jay is a head coach because under marvin he gained legitimacy.   Hue will be a head coach because he has once again rehabbed his image under marvin.    Every time hue works with marvin he gets a promotion.  

In a year or two We will lose Pauly.   And probably Vance as well.    But marvin will hire guys who will become the next guys.

There really seems to be some statistical significance to Marvin being unable to win in prime-time regardless of his QB.  Marvin is 1-3 in prime-time this year and Palmer (who stunk in prime-time as a Bengal) is 5-0.  That's just the way it is.

[Daddy-O]

(12-29-2015, 01:28 PM)Nately120 Wrote: There really seems to be some statistical significance to Marvin being unable to win in prime-time regardless of his QB.  Marvin is 1-3 in prime-time this year and Palmer (who stunk in prime-time as a Bengal) is 5-0.  That's just the way it is.

That's because Palmer's coach Bruce Ariens doesn't coach scared.  He plays aggressive throughout.  I wish we had him as our coach.

[*Nately120*]

(12-29-2015, 01:32 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: That's because Palmer's coach Bruce Ariens doesn't coach scared.  He plays aggressive throughout.  I wish we had him as our coach.

I said it during the Cardinals/Bengals game that Arians and Palmer seem to be the opposite of Marvin and Dalton; stupidly aggressive with short memories.  

[Essex Johnson]

(12-29-2015, 07:53 AM)Captain Happy Pants Wrote: Like classic Marvin Lewis, they blow a significant half time lead and look like a completely different team in the second half.  AJ Green disappeared.  Defense disappeared.  

One and done again

actually the first part of your statement is incorrect.. they even said last night on the game, we had went around 30 games or more with a 8 point lead and had not lost.. I am disappointed on our Defense played in second half.. I am not surprised we were shut down on offense in 2nd half.. anyone that thought Denvers #1 Defense was going to continue to play like they did in 1st half was totally wishful thinking.

We lost in OT to a super bowl contender in their house with our backup..  I am not going to equal that with losing in 1st round of playoffs 

[*Nately120*]

I'd blame the defense, but our offense only scoring 3 points in the second half was pretty typical "Marvin" so meh.

[fortyyearfan]

I believe there is a lot of blame to go around.Hue kept trying to run the ballq and that was not working.They should have allowed aj to sling it more over the middle to number 12 or 82.I was so ticked off watching the second half and actually we have a good chance to win this game.AJ Green is overrated.He is good at times,but he plays down during cold games.Look at his numbers and he quit on that td he should have had.That was completely on him.He blew that deal and he admitted it.But it doesn't help us now.I believe beating the ravens is going to be very difficult now as the pressure is on us and their qb is heads above ours,and our players are very tired and worn down.You saw that with the d last night.

Players that need to go.....AJ.HAWK,TERRIBLE,DRE K-DO NOT START THIS GUY NEXT YEAR.REY REY NUMBER 58,CUT HIM.PEKO-CUT HIM.NUMBER 71--ANDRE SMITH-RELEASE HIM.ADAM JONES IS GETTING OLD.I would sign him back as a punt returner only and allow him to teach Mario Alford --if he ever gets on the field.

I am saying our team is also beat up again.We really miss George-our key safety.Injuries have once again caught up with us and going into the last game,we are tired,worn down and beat up.Not a pretty site going into the playoffs.

[BengirlVal]

I'm still reeling over this loss. How do you go and hand the game over like that? You let them score 17 unanswered points, we miss a CRUCIAL field goal, AJ Green gives up a HUGE play and is pretty non existent in the 2nd half, the coaching staff doesn't adjust to Denvers half time adjustments, Burfict gets called on a BS penalty.....the list goes on and on! I am just in awe about it. As a fan who has invested so much of my time, energy and money I am just flabbergasted.

I'm shaking in my boots just thinking about the playoffs. If we can't win in Primetime when it matters most how are we going to be able to go out there and do it when it really really counts? I love my team....I'm with them through the best and the worst. But damn we need to step up to the next level. Its our time! WHY NOT US????? We have the talent.

[BengirlVal]

Oh and don't get me started on Tate! Why oh why is he still hogging a roster spot???????????

[reuben.ahmed]

Apparently nobody else in the entire league wants to return kicks for the Bengals, knowing that is one of our critical sore spots and they can immediately jump to a playoff team. I mean even on the trash teams in the league they must have a better returner.

Even just 10 yards can make a difference in field position battles.

I wonder if Tate is holding a spot because he can play WR in a pinch.