A Bunch of Reasons We Can Win a Playoff Game (or two) with AJ McCarron

[RoyleRedlegs]

(01-03-2016, 07:34 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: He does hold the ball for a long time.

He really does. 
He's been sacked 12 times. TWELVE TIMES. 

[Rubekahn29]

(01-03-2016, 07:36 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: He really does. 
He's been sacked 12 times. TWELVE TIMES. 

You could also say that Dalton made our O-line looked well above its class by how fast he got rid of the ball. 

[RoyleRedlegs]

(01-03-2016, 07:39 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: You could also say that Dalton made our O-line looked well above its class by how fast he got rid of the ball. 

Could, if you wanted to say stupid things. 

But when the sacks are coming 4 and 5 seconds into a play...it ain't the OL 

[Joelist]

Yep. Part of it is he is taking too long to get the ball out and part is that our OL is used to Andy and his 2.2 second on average release and the slower cycle with AJ takes some adjustment on their part.

[Atomic Orange]

The RUNNING GAME proves it more than anything.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(01-03-2016, 07:41 PM)Joelist Wrote: Yep. Part of it is he is taking too long to get the ball out and part is that our OL is used to Andy and his 2.2 second on average release and the slower cycle with AJ takes some adjustment on their part.

That has very little to do with it. The sacks are coming deep in plays. Not quickly. 

[Rubekahn29]

(01-03-2016, 07:41 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Could, if you wanted to say stupid things. 

But when the sacks are coming 4 and 5 seconds into a play...it ain't the OL 

You occasionally need that 4-5 seconds. Good lines don't only block for 2-3 seconds. 

[RoyleRedlegs]

(01-03-2016, 07:52 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: You occasionally need that 4-5 seconds. Good lines don't only block for 2-3 seconds. 

occasionally, not every damn time. 
plays are designed for certain times. 

people are conflating a quick release with getting the ball out quickly. Dalton does both.
McCarron is struggling to read the defense. He's hanging onto the ball. He's got to find where it needs to be and get it there sooner. 

[BigSeph]

(01-03-2016, 07:32 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: You are an idiot.
I am flat out calling you an idiot.

It's not his release.
It's his inability to see the field and read the defense.
He holds the ball. On a play where the ball is needed to be out in under 3 seconds, he's holding it for 4 or 5.


The OL can't hold every goddamn block for 4+ seconds. No OL ever would be able to do that.
People are just really stupid about OL play. 

Would you prefer that he quickly throw an INT rather than hold the ball?

QBs like Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers tend to "hold the ball" but they have the mobility to get out of the pocket - McCarron doesn't.  Do you think Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers can't see the field and read the defense?

I agree with you to some extent that the OL can't hold blocks forever, but this has never been an OL notorious for their pass blocking skills.

The lack of time makes AJ's decision-making seem worse (while he has "protect the ball" in the back of his mind), and AJ's refusal to throw quick like Andy usually does makes the OL's deficiencies stand out.

I don't think anyone is "stupid about OL play" when they compare Andy Dalton's release times (which traditionally are top-3 in the NFL and usually only behind Brady's times) to AJ's and mention it as a reason the OL's play has been viewed as inferior to their performance with Andy at QB.

That's a legitimate comment.

Looks like you had some urine-soaked cornflakes for breakfast yet again today.

[Rubekahn29]

(01-03-2016, 07:55 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: occasionally, not every damn time. 
plays are designed for certain times. 

people are conflating a quick release with getting the ball out quickly. Dalton does both.
McCarron is struggling to read the defense. He's hanging onto the ball. He's got to find where it needs to be and get it there sooner. 

Well I never really expected AJ Mc. To be an all-pro in his 3rd start. I do expect this so called Top O-line to play much better, Or just face the fact that they aren't as good as everyone thought they were. 

[The Real Deal]

When it comes to this I think it's a little of both. The line could play better. But at the same time AJ is a little unsure of what he is doing and because of that he is holding the ball a little longer than he should. It is what it is guys and what it is is not good for the playoffs.

[BigSeph]

(01-03-2016, 07:36 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: He really does. 
He's been sacked 12 times. TWELVE TIMES. 

Peyton Manning was sacked 11 times in his first 4 games playing more than a half.  What an idiot.

Tom Brady was sacked 8 times in his first 4 games playing more than a half.  What an idiot.

I mean, Andy Dalton was only sacked 7 times in those conditions so he was better at reading defenses than Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and AJ McCarron.

Right?

[Marlon23]

Does anyone in this thread care... that we won!! WE WON!!!! AJ did well today... We won... and we can win with AJ!! Simple. Dont forget to take the time to enjoy the win fellas... and ladies!!!

WHO DEY!!!

[Essex Johnson]

(01-02-2016, 11:02 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I've been feeling the same way, Toast. This team is still good enough with McCarron to beat either the Jets or Steelers at PBS.

Of course, you know Marvin Lewis homers love having that "well Dalton was out" excuse in their back pocket.

We are capable with AJ.. but to say losing Dalton has on impact is just stupid.. so if Ben would have gotten hurt today and say we beat them next week.. you would not say losing Ben had no result on Steelers losing ???

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-03-2016, 08:30 PM)Marlon23 Wrote: Does anyone in this thread care... that we won!!  WE WON!!!!   AJ did well today...  We won... and we can win with AJ!!  Simple.  Dont forget to take the time to enjoy the win fellas...  and ladies!!!  

WHO DEY!!!

A win is better than a loss but don't expect me to do back flips after that performance. 

[2MinutesHate]

Rivers has been sacked 3 times today already against Denver.  That's 1 more than McCarron was last week!  OMG!  What does this all mean?!?!  All these comparisons?!?  Who is right?  Who is wrong?  Who sucks?  Who doesn't?  What player should we root for?  What player should I root against?

*Sigh

We won today, why can't we just be happy with that?  All those that gave up on the Bengals after Dalton got hurt should just give the rest of us a break until the season is over, which should be next week of course because they've broken down the film and determined we have no shot to win.  No sense even watching the game I suppose.

The really bad part is that if the Bengals don't win their next game, we will have to listen to how Dalton would've done this and would've done that in a game he did not even play in.

[Beaker]

(01-03-2016, 08:37 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: The really bad part is that if the Bengals don't win their next game, we will have to listen to how Dalton would've done this and would've done that in a game he did not even play in.

Or how we would've gone to the SB if the steelers hadn't taken out Dalton and ruined our season because they are scared of us.

[Shake n Blake]

(01-03-2016, 11:34 AM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: This is more true than many would like to admit. If the backup QB can do exactly what was expected of the starting QB...play solid and not lose the game...the team should advance. Obviously Dalton's experience level gives him a sizable advantage over McCarron but other than that they are virtually the same level as far as skillset goes. 

Dalton was have a very good year, there is no question to that. If McCarron approaches the game plan the same way he will (and has to this point) produced very similarly to what Andy did in the first 3 QTR's of the season. As you said "the team was built to hide the deficiencies of the QB". 

Nobody on the planet other than a small minority of Bengals fans and Alabama fans actually believe McCarron is anywhere close to Dalton's level. The difference is quite clear when you watch them and even clearer when you check the stats. 

- In 3 starts, McCarron's stats would project to 2944 yards and 21 TDs in 16 games.
- In Dalton's 12 complete games, he was on pace for 4255 yards and 33 TDs.

- The offense has converted 35.0% of their 3rd downs over the last 3 games.
- They converted 43.0% with Dalton.

- The offense has averaged 276.0 total yards over McCarron's 3 starts. That average would easily rank dead last in the NFL. STL (32nd) averages 293.1.
- The offense averaged 100 yards more with Dalton (376.0)

- Dalton averaged 8.42 YPA, which ranked 2nd in the NFL
- McCarron averaged 6.65 YPA in his 3 starts. Mostly dink and dunk and protecting the football.

- Dalton was sacked 20 times in 386 attempts (once every 19.3 attempts)
- McCarron has been sacked 12 times in 119 attempts (once every 10 attempts)

So to sum it up, McCarron isn't leading the offense like Dalton, he's mostly completing short throws to protect the ball, not throwing for nearly as many yards and TDs, and he's getting sacked twice as often. Dalton is better and it's not close really.

I will say this, I like the way they're handling McCarron. Let the players around him make plays and limit his chances for turnovers. We'll have a shot next week.

[BigSeph]

(01-03-2016, 09:14 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Nobody on the planet other than a small minority of Bengals fans and Alabama fans actually believe McCarron is anywhere close to Dalton's level. The difference is quite clear when you watch them and even clearer when you check the stats. 

- In 3 starts, McCarron's stats would project to 2944 yards and 21 TDs in 16 games.
- In Dalton's 12 complete games, he was on pace for 4255 yards and 33 TDs.

- The offense has converted 35.0% of their 3rd downs over the last 3 games.
- They converted 43.0% with Dalton.

- The offense has averaged 276.0 total yards over McCarron's 3 starts. That average would easily rank dead last in the NFL. STL (32nd) averages 293.1.
- The offense averaged 100 yards more with Dalton (376.0)

- Dalton averaged 8.42 YPA, which ranked 2nd in the NFL
- McCarron averaged 6.65 YPA in his 3 starts. Mostly dink and dunk and protecting the football.

- Dalton was sacked 20 times in 386 attempts (once every 19.3 attempts)
- McCarron has been sacked 12 times in 119 attempts (once every 10 attempts)

So to sum it up, McCarron isn't leading the offense like Dalton, he's mostly completing short throws to protect the ball, not throwing for nearly as many yards and TDs, and he's getting sacked twice as often. Dalton is better and it's not close really.

I will say this, I like the way they're handling McCarron. Let the players around him make plays and limit his chances for turnovers. We'll have a shot next week.

I think you're ignoring the difference in sample size, the difference in competition (McCarron has faced 2 of the top-7 defenses in his 3 starts), and the difference in experience.

QBs get sacked less often as they gain experience (unless your name is Kolb or Krieg), QBs get better at decision-making as they gain experience, and it's a common refrain to hear "the game slows down" as they gain experience.

Of course McCarron isn't leading the offense like Dalton, Dalton has started 70+ more games than McCarron in the NFL.  Dalton has been throwing to these WRs and passing behind this OL for years.

I'm absolutely shocked at how so many Bengals fans can't appreciate having a QB come into a potentially disastrous situation and lead the team to a 2-1 record in his starts with the only loss an overtime game at the difficult environment of Mile High and the likely #1 seed in the AFC.

A bunch of complaints and people throwing shade on the guy when all things considered, I doubt there are many backup QBs in the NFL who could have come in and done the same.

[GodFather]

(01-03-2016, 09:37 PM)BigSeph Wrote: I think you're ignoring the difference in sample size, the difference in competition (McCarron has faced 2 of the top-7 defenses in his 3 starts), and the difference in experience.

QBs get sacked less often as they gain experience (unless your name is Kolb or Krieg), QBs get better at decision-making as they gain experience, and it's a common refrain to hear "the game slows down" as they gain experience.

Of course McCarron isn't leading the offense like Dalton, Dalton has started 70+ more games than McCarron in the NFL.  Dalton has been throwing to these WRs and passing behind this OL for years.

I'm absolutely shocked at how so many Bengals fans can't appreciate having a QB come into a potentially disastrous situation and lead the team to a 2-1 record in his starts with the only loss an overtime game at the difficult environment of Mile High and the likely #1 seed in the AFC.

A bunch of complaints and people throwing shade on the guy when all things considered, I doubt there are many backup QBs in the NFL who could have come in and done the same.

I'm actually very happy with AJ's performance so far this season since taking over for Dalton. My complaint isn't how long he's holding the ball but how piss poor the OL has been. Dalton has a quick release, why would you fault AJ for not being as quick? Maybe this OL should do its job. The OL is the most over rated line in the NFL.