Dalton & McCarron are in a very awkward situation

[Fresno B]

(01-06-2016, 11:08 AM)BritishBengal Wrote: Unless AJM throws for like 5tds, has a perfect passer rating and single handedly wins the game with moments of sheer brilliance, you put Dalton straight back in the moment he is ready.

I don't get this logic. Maccarron has to play better than any qb ever or it's Dalton?

[XenoMorph]

They support each other and both will do what them team feels is best... No issue.

The issue will come if we get trade offers for both in the offseason lol

[gobobro]

(01-06-2016, 11:08 AM)BritishBengal Wrote: Unless AJM throws for like 5tds, has a perfect passer rating and single handedly wins the game with moments of sheer brilliance, you put Dalton straight back in the moment he is ready.

Yeah, he'd have to win some insane 52-49 shootout where the running game and defense were laughably bad. Even still, I'd be nervous about any young QB making their Foxboro debut. That crowd will be nuts. Those radios will go out. Belichick will throw the kitchen at him. You need a quarterback who can read defenses, adjust coverages, change plays, and have the mastery of the offense to get it done without Hue if need be. No matter how high someone is on AJM, they just can't think he's there yet. He struggles with delay of game penalties without any of the chaos and advanced quarterbacking. He can get there for sure, but he isn't yet.

[Matt_Crimson]

(01-06-2016, 11:18 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: You are totally missing the point of those that don;t agree with you,, you continue to say there will be issues here with this situation but that issues will only be with fans, media etc that want to make it a issue.  Ownership and Coaches have no issues here.  Dalton starter , AMJ backup coming into the season and leaving the season, regardless what happens in playoffs.  


Fans and Media can debate it that is fine, but don;t make up a inhouse issue where their is none

What are you talking about? Isn't the point of a message board to discuss whatever it is you want to discuss whether it is a possible issue like this or anything else? If people disagree with me, that's fine, THAT'S THE POINT. I made a thread to see what people think about this particular subject so that we can discuss it. I'm not making threads so that everyone will agree with me, good grief.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-06-2016, 11:48 AM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: What are you talking about? Isn't the point of a message board to discuss whatever it is you want to discuss whether it is a possible issue like this or anything else? If people disagree with me, that's fine, THAT'S THE POINT. I made a thread to see what people think about this particular subject so that we can discuss it. I'm not making threads so that everyone will agree with me, good grief.

Fine to discuss but you seem to evade the points I and others have made and keep going back to fans, media etc.. My point is.. Fans, Media, etc do not make the decisions , Coaches and Owners do... and there is nothing in what Ownership has done up to this point to suggest what you are implying so I indicated that you seem to be missing that point.  I also thought the point of the board to is show or point out errors in one's post or thread.. Can't I do that ?

[jj22]

It's Dalton's team regardless. I haven't seen anything out of AJ to suggest he will be the reason we win (highly unlikely) Saturday night. It will be a true team victory, something the team hasn't been able to pull off in the past. McCarron has played admirably as a backup, but nothing suggest he can carry the team on his shoulders to get credit for winning a playoff game. He hasn't carried the team/offense yet, maybe the hope is the switch will flip Saturday. Not likely. We are going to need the defense to step up, run game to step up, oline to step up and coaching to coach an unbelievable game to get a win. It's a terrible position for McCarron to be in for fans to think he will blow through the Steelers and win the first playoff game in decades. Unrealistic based off his play we've seen thusfar. We need him to do what he's done (caretaker of offense) and let our other big money stars on both sides of the ball step up and do what they haven't done before.

I like McCarron, but he hasn't dominated a game or carried this team to victory yet. Hard to think he will Saturday.

If we win, it'll be interesting to see why. It'll likely be because the team stepped up in the face of adversity (starting inexperienced backup qb), and would mean they rely too much on Dalton to make everything happen in the prior playoff games. They didn't drop td passes, were able to stop the run for the first time in the Dalton/Green era, was able to get pressure on the passer for the first time in the era etc. That is the only way we are going to win. But we won't so it's a moot point. Makes for interesting discussion tho.

[XenoMorph]

(01-06-2016, 11:32 AM)Fresno B Wrote: I don't get this logic. Maccarron has to play better than any qb ever or it's Dalton?

McCarron has yet to play better than the backup he is....

[*rfaulk34*]

These kind of "dilemma" threads make me laugh.

I might have enough fingers on my hand to count the number of times McCarron had a receiver open and failed to let it go, in some cases, leading to a sack. He has less experience reading a defense, he's been sacked more on average (due to all the inexperience) and the guys he's in for right now was having an MVP type season.

How can anyone doubt that Dalton is back the very second he's physically able?

If/when this team wins with McCarron in, it's because he didn't turn the ball over and the team played well around him.

He could develop into a solid NFL QB with time but, right now, Dalton is head and shoulders better and gives the team the best chance to win when the QB has to make throws to win the game.

[The Real Deal]

(01-06-2016, 03:23 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: These kind of "dilemma" threads make me laugh.

I might have enough fingers on my hand to count the number of times McCarron had a receiver open and failed to let it go, in some cases, leading to a sack. He has less experience reading a defense, he's been sacked more on average (due to all the inexperience) and the guys he's in for right now was having an MVP type season.

How can anyone doubt that Dalton is back the very second he's physically able?

If/when this team wins with McCarron in, it's because he didn't turn the ball over and the team played well around him.

He could develop into a solid NFL QB with time but, right now, Dalton is head and shoulders better and gives the team the best chance to win when the QB has to make throws to win the game.

Boom! 

[ItsOdellThurman]

Andy Dalton is the Bengals QB if he's healthy.

The caveat here, and it would be an out/justification for the Bengals either way, is that he will NOT be healthy from this injury this year. He might be able to play, but there's no way you can say he will ever go out there not injured.

[J24]

Does anyone really want to see a QB on his 5th start go against a Billicheck defense?

[ItsOdellThurman]

Not really.

I also don't want to see a QB with a broken thumb.

[Hammerthis]

(01-06-2016, 11:18 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: You are totally missing the point of those that don;t agree with you,, you continue to say there will be issues here with this situation but that issues will only be with fans, media etc that want to make it a issue.  Ownership and Coaches have no issues here.  Dalton starter , AMJ backup coming into the season and leaving the season, regardless what happens in playoffs.  


Fans and Media can debate it that is fine, but don;t make up a inhouse issue where their is none

No way in hell does Andy keep the starting job if AJM wins a playoff game, and Andy loses one. No way!

[Matt_Crimson]

Quote:Essex Johnson

Fine to discuss but you seem to evade the points I and others have made and keep going back to fans, media etc.. My point is.. Fans, Media, etc do not make the decisions , Coaches and Owners do... and there is nothing in what Ownership has done up to this point to suggest what you are implying so I indicated that you seem to be missing that point.  I also thought the point of the board to is show or point out errors in one's post or thread.. Can't I do that ?

Evading points? This isn't some scholarly scientific debate where I'm obligated to prove some factual claim. All I did was make a series of hypothetical possibilities based on very specific scenarios that if they were to happen then I believe that "such and such" could end up being the result of that. Just because I don't respond to every point made in a thread does not mean I'm evading anything.

Then you go on to say that "Fans and media etc.. do not make decisions". When did I ever make that claim?  Rather than actually address my points you, as you say, pretty much "evaded" the argument and basically said "Everything you said doesn't matter, only the coaches decisions do" and ignored the context of the argument almost entirely.

Also I'm not sure what you're talking about when you talk about me "implying" something regarding the coaches? Again, this thread is all about hypothetical scenarios and what I believe might be possible outcomes based on those scenarios. Of course the coaches haven't done anything to show what they might possibly do in those scenarios because the first act to cause the possibility of those scenarios hasn't even happened yet, ie McCarron beating the Steelers.

Lastly, I never said you couldn't respond to me. However, what you did say was that I shouldn't "make up in house issues when there are none" which is like saying I shouldn't make a hhypothetical thread about in house issues, which is why I responded with what I responded with....

Again the whole point of this thread is hypothetical and speculative. I don't know what's going to happen nor am I trying to act like I know. Im just putting the possibilities out there and speculating accordingly.

[Bengal Dude]

This...is...Dalton's...team.

[Hammerstripes]

This is what happens when people associate winning and losing with the QB. IF McCarran is the QB this Saturday and the BENGALS win the game, then it tells me one thing:

This team is built so well from 1-53 that they can absorb the loss of their starting QB that was playing at a Pro-Bowl level and still win.

Wins and losses are a TEAM stat, nothing can convince me otherwise.

[Se ky bengal]

it's only awkward for the fans wanting to drop the franchise qb.this is Dalton team when fully healthy

[Se ky bengal]

(01-06-2016, 03:23 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: These kind of "dilemma" threads make me laugh.

I might have enough fingers on my hand to count the number of times McCarron had a receiver open and failed to let it go, in some cases, leading to a sack. He has less experience reading a defense, he's been sacked more on average (due to all the inexperience) and the guys he's in for right now was having an MVP type season.

How can anyone doubt that Dalton is back the very second he's physically able?

If/when this team wins with McCarron in, it's because he didn't turn the ball over and the team played well around him.

He could develop into a solid NFL QB with time but, right now, Dalton is head and shoulders better and gives the team the best chance to win when the QB has to make throws to win the 

well said! !!!

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-06-2016, 05:30 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: This is what happens when people associate winning and losing with the QB.  IF McCarran is the QB this Saturday and the BENGALS win the game, then it tells me one thing:

This team is built so well from 1-53 that they can absorb the loss of their starting QB that was playing at a Pro-Bowl level and still win.  

Wins and losses are a TEAM stat, nothing can convince me otherwise.

I'd have to agree.  I never understood giving wins and losses to hang on the QB.  However.....if you're gonna say a QB lost the game , I guess you gotta say he won when the role is reversed.

[Shake n Blake]

This thread is exactly how some fans (mostly folks clamoring for a non-Dalton QB) will view things, but the Bengals view Dalton as the franchise...for good reason.

On one hand, you have a QB who has been at the helm for 50 wins in 5 seasons, the best run in the team's 48 year history. He's set franchise season records for yards, TDs and passer rating. He's coming off his best season where he was considered an MVP candidate up to the point he went down.

On the other hand, you have a 5th rounder who was drafted purely to be a backup. 3 starts under his belt. He's minimized turnovers and manages games well, but the offense has clearly taken a hit with him in.

The only reason we have these discussions is Dalton's performance in playoffs and prime time. For that, I'll just say this:

Marvin with Dalton: 4-9 in prime time, 0-4 in the playoffs.
Marvin with other QBs: 4-10 in prime time, 0-2 in the playoffs.

Dalton had a fantastic game against the Cards this year. The defense gave up 28 points in the 3rd quarter. Was Dalton to blame for that L? Fact is, the prime time/playoff problems go way back, and were viewed as a Marvin problem until recently. I look back on 13 years with Marv and I struggle to think of any players that consistently showed up - at all - in the bright lights. Carson? Nope. Chad? Transparent. AJ? Covered. Gio? Nowhere to be found. Geno Atkins? Just a guy.

Dalton is just another in a long line of players who disappeared. If Marv ever figures out a way to get this team prepared, I have no doubt that Andy can get the playoff monkey off his back.