Dalton & McCarron are in a very awkward situation

[Matt_Crimson]

In my opinion, Dalton and McCarron face a difficult situation concerning the playoff picture.

Since we know McCarron is the starter this week this brings up a problem.

If McCarron beats the Steelers in the playoffs, then this means McCarron will have won the first Bengals playoff game since 1991. It will also mean that McCarron will have 1-uped Dalton in that regard. It will also beg the question of whether we continue to keep McCarron as the starter or bring back Dalton...... Which is where the dilemmas begin.

Scenario #1: If we keep McCarron in and McCarron then loses the next game (After beating the Steelers) people will have the leverage of saying that the only reason McCarron won a playoff game in the first place is because he played against the Steelers. The coaches will then of course have to take the blame for keeping McCarron as the starter instead of putting Dalton in since Dalton will have been perceived as the better choice.

Scenario #1.1: If we start Dalton after McCarron beats the Steelers and Dalton loses the next playoff game, Dalton will continue to be known as the guy who couldn't win playoff games and that McCarron should have started over him. OR my previous point will come back into play and people will say McCarron wouldn't have won the previous game if he had to face the team Dalton lost to in the 2nd round instead of the "weak" Steelers.

================================================

Now.... lets say scenario #1 happens and McCarron beats the Steelers and we decide to keep McCarron as our quarterback BUT he wins the next game.

Scenario #2: If McCarron wins the next game after that (which would be against the Patriots) then he will have 1-uped Dalton again and will have put us into a bigger problem because now the coaches will have to decide whether to stay with McCarron for the remainder of the playoffs at this point or ultimately switch to Dalton for the conference championship round. If McCarron loses against the Patriots, then he will either be praised for his one playoff win or scoffed at for just beating the Steelers.

Scenario #2.1: If McCarron wins the next game (against the Patriots) but we start Dalton for the conference championships and Dalton loses, then my previous point comes back into play and Dalton will be seen as the guy who can't win playoff games..... except this time McCarron will have beaten both the Steelers and Patriots in the playoffs, which will put him over Dalton in media and some fans eyes.

================================================


Now.... lets say scenario #2 happens and McCarron remains the starter and beats the Patriots and remains the starter after that. Oh..... my..... god...

Scenario #3: So now McCarron has just beaten both the Steelers and the Patriots..... and THEN goes on and wins the conference championship against whoever. Now he has 3 playoff wins to Dalton's 0 and is at the doorstep of the Superbowl. They have to decide to either go for it with McCarron or put in Dalton. If McCarron loses the conference championship then he will still be over Dalton in the sense that he's won two playoff games.

Scenario 3.1: If McCaron beats the Steelers and the Patriots and wins the conference championship, but we decide to start Dalton for the superbowl, Dalton has no choice but to win. He CANNOT, I repeat CANNOT lose the superbowl after McCarron just won 3 playoff games straight. If he does, he will go down not only as the guy that hasn't won a playoff game but also as the guy that didn't win the superbowl  and ruined the Bengals success story and the coaches would be hated. Dalton's starting job as a whole may even be in jeopardy.
================================================

Basically the only way Dalton comes out of this unscathed is if he stays out of the playoffs completely and lets McCarron lead the team OR he starts after McCarron beats the Steelers and goes on to beat the Patriots himself. If Dalton loses to the Patriots then as I said before, he will still be known as Mr. Playoff loser in addition to people saying McCarron faced a "weak" team aka the Steelers.

The only way McCarron comes unscathed out of this is if he beats the Steelers and sits out the rest of the playoffs OR if he beats both the Steelers and the Patriots. After that it doesn't matter if he loses the conference championship or the superbowl because he will have solidified himself as a contender.

[Stormborn]

To all of that I have to say...

yep

[BonnieBengal]

(01-06-2016, 03:45 AM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: In my opinion, Dalton and McCarron face a difficult situation concerning the playoff picture.

Since we know McCarron is the starter this week this brings up a problem.

If McCarron beats the Steelers in the playoffs, then this means McCarron will have won the first Bengals playoff game since 1991. It will also mean that McCarron will have 1-uped Dalton in that regard. It will also beg the question of whether we continue to keep McCarron as the starter or bring back Dalton...... Which is where the dilemmas begin.

Scenario #1: If we keep McCarron in and McCarron then loses the next game (After beating the Steelers) people will have the leverage of saying that the only reason McCarron won a playoff game in the first place is because he played against the Steelers. The coaches will then of course have to take the blame for keeping McCarron as the starter instead of putting Dalton in since Dalton will have been perceived as the better choice.

Scenario #1.1: If we start Dalton after McCarron beats the Steelers and Dalton loses the next playoff game, Dalton will continue to be known as the guy who couldn't win playoff games and that McCarron should have started over him. OR my previous point will come back into play and people will say McCarron wouldn't have won the previous game if he had to face the team Dalton lost to in the 2nd round instead of the "weak" Steelers.

================================================

Now.... lets say scenario #1 happens and McCarron beats the Steelers and we decide to keep McCarron as our quarterback BUT he wins the next game.

Scenario #2: If McCarron wins the next game after that (which would be against the Patriots) then he will have 1-uped Dalton again and will have put us into a bigger problem because now the coaches will have to decide whether to stay with McCarron for the remainder of the playoffs at this point or ultimately switch to Dalton for the conference championship round. If McCarron loses against the Patriots, then he will either be praised for his one playoff win or scoffed at for just beating the Steelers.

Scenario #2.1: If McCarron wins the next game (against the Patriots) but we start Dalton for the conference championships and Dalton loses, then my previous point comes back into play and Dalton will be seen as the guy who can't win playoff games..... except this time McCarron will have beaten both the Steelers and Patriots in the playoffs, which will put him over Dalton in media and some fans eyes.

================================================


Now.... lets say scenario #2 happens and McCarron remains the starter and beats the Patriots and remains the starter after that. Oh..... my..... god...

Scenario #3: So now McCarron has just beaten both the Steelers and the Patriots..... and THEN goes on and wins the conference championship against whoever. Now he has 3 playoff wins to Dalton's 0 and is at the doorstep of the Superbowl. They have to decide to either go for it with McCarron or put in Dalton. If McCarron loses the conference championship then he will still be over Dalton in the sense that he's won two playoff games.

Scenario 3.1: If McCaron beats the Steelers and the Patriots and wins the conference championship, but we decide to start Dalton for the superbowl, Dalton has no choice but to win. He CANNOT, I repeat CANNOT lose the superbowl after McCarron just won 3 playoff games straight. If he does, he will go down not only as the guy that hasn't won a playoff game but also as the guy that didn't win the superbowl  and ruined the Bengals success story and the coaches would be hated. Dalton's starting job as a whole may even be in jeopardy.
================================================

Basically the only way Dalton comes out of this unscathed is if he stays out of the playoffs completely and lets McCarron lead the team OR he starts after McCarron beats the Steelers and goes on to beat the Patriots himself. If Dalton loses to the Patriots then as I said before, he will still be known as Mr. Playoff loser in addition to people saying McCarron faced a "weak" team aka the Steelers.

The only way McCarron comes unscathed out of this is if he beats the Steelers and sits out the rest of the playoffs OR if he beats both the Steelers and the Patriots. After that it doesn't matter if he loses the conference championship or the superbowl because he will have solidified himself as a contender.

I think we have a good chance of beating the Steelers with either QB.  Playing New England in Foxboro is always tough.  You are right that the casual fan and media morons would dump on Dalton if he came in the divisional round and lost to New England.  But if he can play, I'd want him in there.  His ability to read coverage is much better than McCarron.

[Atomic Orange]

1st- Without Dalton does any of these scenarios even exist?

With that out of the way.

You go with the hot hand. If AJM plays well and is a big reason for beating the Stoolers he gets the start against NE. If he falters in that game you do what Denver just did and bring in Dalton. Win or lose, we will then have our answer to who should start in the next game.

And we'll worry about that later..

[BigPapaKain]

tl;dr

This is Dalton's team as soon as he's healthy again. There is no awkward positions for anyone involved.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

(01-06-2016, 09:05 AM)BigPapaKain Wrote: tl;dr

Really?  Damn, you have a short attention span....

[*jason*]

(01-06-2016, 09:05 AM)BigPapaKain Wrote: tl;dr

This is Dalton's team as soon as he's healthy again. There is no awkward positions for anyone involved.

This^^^^^^

One of them has a big contract, the other is a back up.  It's a dilemma for the fans only.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

Not that it matters, because the Bengals are going to win out all the way to a Super Bowl title regardless of who plays at QB, but I don't see how you don't go back to Andy if he's healthy. Maybe if McCarron wins a couple games in a row with a 120+ passer rating, you'd at least have to think about keeping him in for the big one, but there is no way that I'd keep him in to play against the Patriots if Dalton is healthy enough to play.

[eoxyod]

The difference being - Dalton is actually good at his job

[BengalChris]

While I understand what the OP says, I don't believe that has to be the situation. It all depends on how well Dalton plays when he comes back. The whole team needs this W, not just Dalton.

[The Real Deal]

No they aren't. Next thread.

[Daddy-O]

(01-06-2016, 10:03 AM)jason Wrote: This^^^^^^

One of them has a big contract, the other is a back up.  It's a dilemma for the fans only.

Agreed.  All of the speculation and discussion is for the fans only.  The Bengals have already decided who the franchise QB is and it's Dalton.  They (Bengals) know exactly what they have in AD, that's why they gave him the long-term contract.

As far as AJM is concerned, great for him and the team if he does well and wins in the playoffs.  He will become a very hot commodity, both for himself and the Bengals.

This is not an awkward situation at all, rather a perfect situation for all involved:  1) AD's is the future #1 no matter what outcome, 2) AJM has a chance to show the NFL he is a legitimate NFL QB, 3) The Bengals have the rights to AJM and can entertain offers from other teams.

And even for those that are still unsure the Bengals consider AD to be a franchise QB, they could still entertain offers for AD from other teams...but this is just a pipe dream because in reality he is untouchable.  He is a top 10 tier QB in a league where it is very difficult to find franchise QB's.  It's the "known" versus the unknown.  You always go with history.  And when you have a QB that's won more games in his first 5 seasons than any other QB in history it's a no-brainer.

Again, this is not an awkward situation inside the Bengal building, only on the outside.

[spazz70]

Nothing awkward about it..Dalton is the starter...He was the top rated QB in the league when he got hurt...If he is ready to play after we beat Pitt on Saturday then he starts...A 90% Dalton is better than a 100% AJ.

[yellowxdiscipline]

Oh look another Dalton and McCarron thread. How original.

[BengalFanInNJ]

This is one of those "tough" situations that teams love being in.

That said, if McCarron plays great and leads the Bengals to a Super Bowl win I may entertain the possibility of him starting next year. Yes, I know I am in the minority in this thinking. What I do know is should McCarron be successful in the playoffs, he automatically becomes a high value trade commodity.

[CJD]

If we beat the Steelers (I'm not seeing it personally, but statistically, it is possible) with McCarron as the starter and Andy Dalton is good to go for New England, you play Dalton.

This is an imaginary discussion among the fans that is not occurring between the coaches of this team.

If Dalton plays against New England and it is obvious his thumb/grip/throwing motion/rust is a detriment to the team, you put McCarron back in.

Starters are not required by rule to play the entire game unless injured. If Dalton shows that he came back too quickly, you simply sit him down and play McCarron.

But if he's healthy and effective, you play him.

I don't understand the argument of people who would play McCarron without giving Dalton even a chance in the next game.

Dalton was the MVP candidate, not McCarron.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-06-2016, 03:45 AM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: In my opinion, Dalton and McCarron face a difficult situation concerning the playoff picture.

Since we know McCarron is the starter this week this brings up a problem.

If McCarron beats the Steelers in the playoffs, then this means McCarron will have won the first Bengals playoff game since 1991. It will also mean that McCarron will have 1-uped Dalton in that regard. It will also beg the question of whether we continue to keep McCarron as the starter or bring back Dalton...... Which is where the dilemmas begin.

Scenario #1: If we keep McCarron in and McCarron then loses the next game (After beating the Steelers) people will have the leverage of saying that the only reason McCarron won a playoff game in the first place is because he played against the Steelers. The coaches will then of course have to take the blame for keeping McCarron as the starter instead of putting Dalton in since Dalton will have been perceived as the better choice.

Scenario #1.1: If we start Dalton after McCarron beats the Steelers and Dalton loses the next playoff game, Dalton will continue to be known as the guy who couldn't win playoff games and that McCarron should have started over him. OR my previous point will come back into play and people will say McCarron wouldn't have won the previous game if he had to face the team Dalton lost to in the 2nd round instead of the "weak" Steelers.

================================================

Now.... lets say scenario #1 happens and McCarron beats the Steelers and we decide to keep McCarron as our quarterback BUT he wins the next game.

Scenario #2: If McCarron wins the next game after that (which would be against the Patriots) then he will have 1-uped Dalton again and will have put us into a bigger problem because now the coaches will have to decide whether to stay with McCarron for the remainder of the playoffs at this point or ultimately switch to Dalton for the conference championship round. If McCarron loses against the Patriots, then he will either be praised for his one playoff win or scoffed at for just beating the Steelers.

Scenario #2.1: If McCarron wins the next game (against the Patriots) but we start Dalton for the conference championships and Dalton loses, then my previous point comes back into play and Dalton will be seen as the guy who can't win playoff games..... except this time McCarron will have beaten both the Steelers and Patriots in the playoffs, which will put him over Dalton in media and some fans eyes.

================================================


Now.... lets say scenario #2 happens and McCarron remains the starter and beats the Patriots and remains the starter after that. Oh..... my..... god...

Scenario #3: So now McCarron has just beaten both the Steelers and the Patriots..... and THEN goes on and wins the conference championship against whoever. Now he has 3 playoff wins to Dalton's 0 and is at the doorstep of the Superbowl. They have to decide to either go for it with McCarron or put in Dalton. If McCarron loses the conference championship then he will still be over Dalton in the sense that he's won two playoff games.

Scenario 3.1: If McCaron beats the Steelers and the Patriots and wins the conference championship, but we decide to start Dalton for the superbowl, Dalton has no choice but to win. He CANNOT, I repeat CANNOT lose the superbowl after McCarron just won 3 playoff games straight. If he does, he will go down not only as the guy that hasn't won a playoff game but also as the guy that didn't win the superbowl  and ruined the Bengals success story and the coaches would be hated. Dalton's starting job as a whole may even be in jeopardy.
================================================

Basically the only way Dalton comes out of this unscathed is if he stays out of the playoffs completely and lets McCarron lead the team OR he starts after McCarron beats the Steelers and goes on to beat the Patriots himself. If Dalton loses to the Patriots then as I said before, he will still be known as Mr. Playoff loser in addition to people saying McCarron faced a "weak" team aka the Steelers.

The only way McCarron comes unscathed out of this is if he beats the Steelers and sits out the rest of the playoffs OR if he beats both the Steelers and the Patriots. After that it doesn't matter if he loses the conference championship or the superbowl because he will have solidified himself as a contender.

Unscathed from whom??  Fans,. Media ??  That matters zero... what matters is the trust the Coaches and Owner made in picking both of these QBs,  one as the starter , the other as the backup.. does not matter what happens rest of the way for them... Dalton's performance over the last 5 years and especially this year cemented from a coaches perspective being the starter for Bengals for a long long time.. AJM performance already has cemented that he is a solid backup.

[Matt_Crimson]

(01-06-2016, 04:33 AM)Atomic Orange Wrote: 1st- Without Dalton does any of these scenarios even exist?

No, which is part of the reason why I say it's awkward because Dalton's the one who got us here in the first place.

(01-06-2016, 10:06 AM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: Not that it matters, because the Bengals are going to win out all the way to a Super Bowl title regardless of who plays at QB, but I don't see how you don't go back to Andy if he's healthy.  Maybe if McCarron wins a couple games in a row with a 120+ passer rating, you'd at least have to think about keeping him in for the big one, but there is no way that I'd keep him in to play against the Patriots if Dalton is healthy enough to play.

I hope the Bengals do win the Super Bowl obviously, that would be the perfect way to end this. I don't know how I feel about Dalton right now because none of us knows how he's going to play after the hand injury and not playing for a few weeks. It's a very "up in the air" situation.

(01-06-2016, 10:18 AM)The Real Deal Wrote: No they aren't. Next thread.

Did you even read the thread? If so, care to elaborate?

(01-06-2016, 10:20 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: Agreed.  All of the speculation and discussion is for the fans only.  The Bengals have already decided who the franchise QB is and it's Dalton.  They (Bengals) know exactly what they have in AD, that's why they gave him the long-term contract.

As far as AJM is concerned, great for him and the team if he does well and wins in the playoffs.  He will become a very hot commodity, both for himself and the Bengals.

This is not an awkward situation at all, rather a perfect situation for all involved:  1) AD's is the future #1 no matter what outcome, 2) AJM has a chance to show the NFL he is a legitimate NFL QB, 3) The Bengals have the rights to AJM and can entertain offers from other teams.

And even for those that are still unsure the Bengals consider AD to be a franchise QB, they could still entertain offers for AD from other teams...but this is just a pipe dream because in reality he is untouchable.  He is a top 10 tier QB in a league where it is very difficult to find franchise QB's.  It's the "known" versus the unknown.  You always go with history.  And when you have a QB that's won more games in his first 5 seasons than any other QB in history it's a no-brainer.

Again, this is not an awkward situation inside the Bengal building, only on the outside.

While I understand your argument, I disagree. I feel like if McCarron gets a playoff win over Dalton, then the media is going to be all over this. especially since the media has been notorious with QB controversies and hating on the Bengals in general. Plus, I can guarantee you that if McCarron wins a playoff game and Dalton doesn't then there's going to be a lot of Bengals fans criticizing Dalton for losing again in the playoffs.

(01-06-2016, 10:52 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Oh look another Dalton and McCarron thread. How original.

Looks like a pretty original thread to me. I'm not sitting here saying that McCaron is better than Dalton or that Dalton is better than McCarron. I'm simply trying create conversation regarding the playoff situation. Would like to hear what you guys actually think about it instead of the, as you put it, unoriginal responses about how unoriginal threads are.

[BritishBengal]

Unless AJM throws for like 5tds, has a perfect passer rating and single handedly wins the game with moments of sheer brilliance, you put Dalton straight back in the moment he is ready.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-06-2016, 11:07 AM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: No, which is part of the reason why I say it's awkward because Dalton's the one who got us here in the first place.

I hope the Bengals do win the Super Bowl obviously, that would be the perfect way to end this. I don't know how I feel about Dalton right now because none of us knows how he's going to play after the hand injury and not playing for a few weeks. It's a very "up in the air" situation.

Did you even read the thread? If so, care to elaborate?

While I understand your argument, I disagree. I feel like if McCarron gets a playoff win over Dalton, then the media is going to be all over this. especially since the media has been notorious with QB controversies and hating on the Bengals in general. Plus, I can guarantee you that if McCarron wins a playoff game and Dalton doesn't then there's going to be a lot of Bengals fans criticizing Dalton for losing again in the playoffs.


Looks like a pretty original thread to me. I'm not sitting here saying that McCaron is better than Dalton or that Dalton is better than McCarron. I'm simply trying create conversation regarding the playoff situation. Would like to hear what you guys actually think about it instead of the, as you put it, unoriginal responses about how unoriginal threads are.

You are totally missing the point of those that don;t agree with you,, you continue to say there will be issues here with this situation but that issues will only be with fans, media etc that want to make it a issue.  Ownership and Coaches have no issues here.  Dalton starter , AMJ backup coming into the season and leaving the season, regardless what happens in playoffs.  


Fans and Media can debate it that is fine, but don;t make up a inhouse issue where their is none