New found respect for Marvin

[CornerBlitz]

I have been one of his harshest critics but I've got to give the ole coach some credit. This season if it wasn't for Dalton's injury I'm confident we'd have the bye week and be in supreme position to make a run at the SB. With McCarron i'm not so sure. Regardless, the Bengals have made the playoffs 5 straight years and even though the team tends to shrink under the bright lights the fact remains that this team is one of the best regular season teams in the NFL over the past 5 seasons. That has to mean something right? I've wanted him canned after every season over the past 10 years but this is the first time I actually wouldn't mind bringing him back regardless of how the team performs against the steelers.

I think the other thing that people fail to give him credit for is the coordinators he's come up with over the past 5 years. As others have noted he's starting to create a decent coaching tree. I'm giving Marvin props...he's earned it after 5 solid regular seasons in a row. This does not negate the fact that his in game coaching decisions are inferior and at times he looks nervous on the sidelines. Overall he's a decent head coach who has had supreme success in the regular season; next step, win in the playoffs!

[Essex Johnson]

(01-06-2016, 10:58 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: I have been one of his harshest critics but I've got to give the ole coach some credit. This season if it wasn't for Dalton's injury I'm confident we'd have the bye week and be in supreme position to make a run at the SB. With McCarron i'm not so sure. Regardless, the Bengals have made the playoffs 5 straight years and even though the team tends to shrink under the bright lights the fact remains that this team is one of the best regular season teams in the NFL over the past 5 seasons.  That has to mean something right?  I've wanted him canned after every season over the past 10 years but this is the first time I actually wouldn't mind bringing him back regardless of how the team performs against the steelers.

I think the other thing that people fail to give him credit for is the coordinators he's come up with over the past 5 years. As others have noted he's starting to create a decent coaching tree. I'm giving Marvin props...he's earned it after 5 solid regular seasons in a row. This does not negate the fact that his in game coaching decisions are inferior and at times he looks nervous on the sidelines. Overall he's a decent head coach who has had supreme success in the regular season; next step, win in the playoffs!

Agree, though I think Tomlin has worse game coaching decisions especially last few years than Marvin.

[*Nately120*]

I'm not saying we should get rid of Marvin, but the best chance he had to win it all was in 2013 and he didn't exactly make the most of it.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-06-2016, 10:58 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: I think the other thing that people fail to give him credit for is the coordinators he's come up with over the past 5 years.

Mike Zimmer was a good coordinator in Dallas before he ever came to Cincinnati. In '00-'06 with Dallas, he had a top-5 defense twice (#1 in 2003). Mike Zimmer then made Paul Guenther and handed him the extremely impressive defense he had built up for years.

Jay Gruden wasn't created by Lewis either. Pretty sure he got coached up by his Super Bowl winning HC brother in Tampa Bay. (He was an offensive assistant there for 7 years.)

Ray Horton wasn't a Bengals coach when Lewis was. While Lewis was HC, he was a Steelers coach mostly.


I'll give Lewis credit for Hue, though. Hue will probably go and be a pretty impressive HC somewhere. (Heck, the dude made Oakland have a non-losing season twice in a row. Basically a miracle already. Lol)
- - - - - - -

All that aside, it doesn't change the fact the guy hasn't won a postseason game in 12 years/3 completely different teams. Before Coughlin quit after Week 17, the three longest tenured HC at their current jobs were Belichick, Lewis, and Coughlin.

Belichick: 4 SB Wins, 2 more SB appearances
Lewis: 0 Playoff Wins
Coughlin: 2 SB Wins

One isn't like the others. Dude needs to win this year, or he needs to go. Already wasted enough of a lot of great players careers and all of their rookie pay years. Want to know something crazy? Next season AJ Green will be 28, Dalton will be almost 29, Atkins will be 28, Michael Johnson will be 29. NFL careers don't last long.

[*Awful Llama*]

He should get one more chance and that chance likely expires about 11:30 Saturday night.

[*Nately120*]

(01-06-2016, 11:40 PM)Awful Llama Wrote: He should get one more chance and that chance likely expires about 11:30 Saturday night.

11:30 Saturday night 2026?

[jj22]

Mike's got us right where he wants us. Scared to death of the unknown, and rightfully so. You look around the league and who wants to gamble on a new coach. The window is still open next year. Regardless of the outcome Saturday.

I'd take note of a playoff win first by Zimmer, Gruden, and then possibly Hue. Soon there won't be many in house options and the gamble would be significant. Besides with our luck the Brown family would probably promote the piano man!

If only he'd just move to the front office. I trust the franchise with him. But we're letting some good coaches go. With what should be strong ties to the Brown family (Zimmer, Hue). The time may have come and gone to replace Marvin.

[ShowMeUrTDs]

(01-07-2016, 12:01 AM)jj22 Wrote: Mike's got us right where he wants us. Scared to death of the unknown, and rightfully so. You look around the league and who wants to gamble on a new coach. The window is still open next year. Regardless of the outcome Saturday.

I'd take note of a playoff win first by Zimmer, Gruden, and then possibly Hue. Soon there won't be many in house options and the gamble would be significant. Besides with our luck the Brown family would probably promote the piano man!

If only he'd just move to the front office. I trust the franchise with him. But we're letting some good coaches go. With what should be strong ties to the Brown family (Zimmer, Hue). The time may have come and gone to replace Marvin.

I agree man....Zimmer was the move that should of been made, he was the right man at the right time. Should of game Marvin the opportunity to GM for the team with Zimmer as HC, and if he refused gave him his walking papers!!

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-07-2016, 12:01 AM)jj22 Wrote: Besides with our luck the Brown family would probably promote the piano man!

Here's a little terror for your dreams tonight. You know that's who's probably going to be the OC in 2016 if Marvin is still here, right?

They're going to almost certainly promote from within. So who does that leave?

Kyle Caskey and the amazing job he's done with Hill?
James Urban, teaching Sanu how to catch or Green how to not give up on routes?

Nope, it's going to be Paul "Assistant Head Coach" Alexander, who can only succeed with overwhelming draft talent, and even then it's iffy.

(Or, if you really want to wake up with night sweats tonight, think about the fact that Bob Bratkowski is a offensive assistant for the Bengals last I heard. Maybe we get a Bob repeat.)

No matter how you look at it, it's looking pretty grim for the next OC choices if Lewis is still around next year.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-07-2016, 12:01 AM)jj22 Wrote: Mike's got us right where he wants us. Scared to death of the unknown, and rightfully so. You look around the league and who wants to gamble on a new coach. The window is still open next year. Regardless of the outcome Saturday.

I'd take note of a playoff win first by Zimmer, Gruden, and then possibly Hue. Soon there won't be many in house options and the gamble would be signifcant. Besides with our luck the Brown family would probably promote the piano man!

[quote pid='148687' dateline='1452135699']

If only he'd just move to the front office. I trust the franchise with him. But we're letting some good coaches go. With what should be strong ties to the Brown family (Zimmer, Hue). The time may have come and gone to replace Marvin.
[/quote]



Sumina beech.....I keel you !!!!!!!

[fredtoast]

(01-07-2016, 12:32 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Nope, it's going to be Paul "Assistant Head Coach" Alexander, who can only succeed with overwhelming draft talent, and even then it's iffy.

You mean like in '09 when we won the division with an O-line that include four undrafted free agent starters?

But It will be Urban or Zampese instead of Alexander.  

[GodFather]

(01-06-2016, 11:40 PM)Awful Llama Wrote: He should get one more chance and that chance likely expires about 11:30 Saturday night.

  This!

[fredtoast]

(01-07-2016, 12:32 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: They're going to almost certainly promote from within.

Maybe not.  Both Zimmer and Gruden were not from the Bengals.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-06-2016, 11:19 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Mike Zimmer was a good coordinator in Dallas before he ever came to Cincinnati. In '00-'06 with Dallas, he had a top-5 defense twice (#1 in 2003). Mike Zimmer then made Paul Guenther and handed him the extremely impressive defense he had built up for years.

Jay Gruden wasn't created by Lewis either. Pretty sure he got coached up by his Super Bowl winning HC brother in Tampa Bay. (He was an offensive assistant there for 7 years.)

Ray Horton wasn't a Bengals coach when Lewis was. While Lewis was HC, he was a Steelers coach mostly.


I'll give Lewis credit for Hue, though. Hue will probably go and be a pretty impressive HC somewhere. (Heck, the dude made Oakland have a non-losing season twice in a row. Basically a miracle already. Lol)
- - - - - - -

All that aside, it doesn't change the fact the guy hasn't won a postseason game in 12 years/3 completely different teams. Before Coughlin quit after Week 17, the three longest tenured HC at their current jobs were Belichick, Lewis, and Coughlin.

Belichick: 4 SB Wins, 2 more SB appearances
Lewis: 0 Playoff Wins
Coughlin: 2 SB Wins

One isn't like the others. Dude needs to win this year, or he needs to go. Already wasted enough of a lot of great players careers and all of their rookie pay years. Want to know something crazy? Next season AJ Green will be 28, Dalton will be almost 29, Atkins will be 28, Michael Johnson will be 29. NFL careers don't last long.

While you are stating facts, there does seem to be more to the story than what meets the eye.  Those other two coaches had the full benefit of "winning friendly" ownership, from day one.  It took Marvin and Katie years to wear down Mike to get to the point where we have actual football people making football decisions..

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-07-2016, 12:38 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You mean like in '09 when we won the division with an O-line that include four undrafted free agent starters?

But It will be Urban or Zampese instead of Alexander.  

When we had to run a FB and 6 man unbalanced line sets most of the year to do anything?  Yeah....I remember.

[fredtoast]

(01-07-2016, 12:41 AM)Wyche Wrote: When we had to run a FB and 6 man unbalanced line sets most of the year to do anything?  Yeah....I remember.

Yeah, it was so simple that every other team in the league won that way....oh wait, nevermind.  No other team was able to do this.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-07-2016, 12:39 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Maybe not.  Both Zimmer and Gruden were not from the Bengals.

Maybe not, but both Zimmer and Gruden came from outside after the previous guys failed and got demoted/out of the NFL. Not because the Bengals had to fill holes due to promotions. (Hue taking over for Gruden, Guenther for Zimmer)

Chances are you'll see Vance Joesph as DC and Paul Alexander as OC, if status quo remains. Maybe Zampese instead of Alexander, but I am fairly certain it'll be Alexander. Why else give him the "Assistant Head Coach" title if not to placate him long enough for Hue to get hired elsewhere?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-07-2016, 12:41 AM)Wyche Wrote: When we had to run a FB and 6 man unbalanced line sets most of the year to do anything?  Yeah....I remember.

Also, it was only 2.5, not 4 undrafted.

Andrew Whitworth (2nd)
Bobby Williams (2nd)
Evan Mathis (3rd) for half a season

Livings started the other half. Which should be enough to tell you how awful Alexander is.

[fredtoast]

(01-07-2016, 01:12 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Also, it was only 2.5, not 4 undrafted.

Andrew Whitworth (2nd)
Bobby Williams (2nd)
Evan Mathis (3rd) for half a season

Livings started the other half. Which should be enough to tell you how awful Alexander is.

Mathis was playing for his third team in three years, and he split time with Livings until getting injured.

Since the Bengals used a lot of six man lines the relied heavily on four undrafted free agents. 

[fredtoast]

(01-07-2016, 01:05 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I am fairly certain it'll be Alexander. Why else give him the "Assistant Head Coach" title if not to placate him long enough for Hue to get hired elsewhere?

Yeah, right.  In 2003 we designated him as "Assistant Head Coach" to placate him for 13 years while we went through 3 different OCs.