How about AJ McCarron

[Essex Johnson]

(01-11-2016, 03:28 PM)WhoDeySince81 Wrote: Upon which previous playoff game do you base your confidence?

2012? 31-10 L to Houston?
2013? 19-13 L to Houston again where the defense outscored the offense?
2014? 27-10 L to San Diego where Dalton fumbled untouched in the 4th qtr?
Last year? 26-10 L to the Colts?

Even in that rainy mess we managed to score our highest playoff point total. Hell, AJ Green just scored the first postseason TD pass of his career! Does that not say something?

Couple points.. you can;t base a career off just playoff games.  If we did that AJ Green is a below average WR... 

Second, Dalton has won pressure games before.. and he was playing at the top of his game this year.. so if you are going to go off the assumption he would continue to play bad in a playoff game, I can go off the assumption he would continue to play like the MVP year he was having.

[BigSeph]

(01-11-2016, 05:48 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Couple points.. you can;t base a career off just playoff games.  If we did that AJ Green is a below average WR... 

Second, Dalton has won pressure games before.. and he was playing at the top of his game this year.. so if you are going to go off the assumption he would continue to play bad in a playoff game, I can go off the assumption he would continue to play like the MVP year he was having.

How did he do in the Texans game this year?

I think basing it off playoff games and recent history is a powerful combination when making such an argument.

[BengalChris]

(01-11-2016, 04:12 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Mike Glennon, Mark Sanchez, RGIII, Drew Stanton, Nick Foles, Matt Hasselbeck, Brock Osweiler, Blane Gabbert, Ryan Mallet, Matt Shaub

how about 10

You are just a AJM hater, face it.

RGIII can't QB his way out of his own way.

And of the ones you have listed, only Osweiler and Stanton aren't on their second team already or been previous starters.

We all know AJM is not Joe Montana. That doesn't mean he sucks or will suck.

I don't think AJM should start over Dalton, but gotta give the kid some credit. Offense, even though it looked pretty ugly at times, it put up our best postseason output in years.

(01-11-2016, 05:48 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Couple points.. you can;t base a career off just playoff games. If we did that AJ Green is a below average WR...

Second, Dalton has won pressure games before.. and he was playing at the top of his game this year.. so if you are going to go off the assumption he would continue to play bad in a playoff game, I can go off the assumption he would continue to play like the MVP year he was having.

Not sure why acknowledging that AJM did decent has to bring a single comment about Dalton. Dalton has nothing to do with this thread. Zero, nada, zilch.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-11-2016, 03:43 PM)WhoDeySince81 Wrote: Agree with every word of this. Not saying AJM is better physically than Dalton right now (although he does have a better deep ball). He does however have the one thing Dalton has always lacked in big moments/games - confidence. I just get the feeling that he raises his game in big moments instead of pi$$ing down his leg.

Take what you have seen from McCarron over the past 4 games, then give him about a third of the patience and development that Dalton was given, and I guarantee you end up with a MUCH better finished product. Maybe even good enough to actually show up in the playoffs someday.

If Dalton lacked confidence we would have not been to the playoffs 5 straight years and had numerous 4th quarter comebacks by Andy.. especially this year.. judging someone from 5 years ago is just not realistic.. that would be like saying the Ray Rice was a top back at the end of his career since he had very good three years before his last two years.. A player especially in the NFL is judged much more over what you are doing now not in the past.  

Finally, in Dalton's first year, he surpassed expectations for sure.. so if you are comparing Dalton's first year to AJM first 4 games,, i am taking Dalton 

[Essex Johnson]

(01-11-2016, 05:50 PM)BigSeph Wrote: How did he do in the Texans game this year?

I think basing it off playoff games and recent history is a powerful combination when making such an argument.

Ok then i will take 10-2 as a starter  before he got hurt, comeback against Seattle and his overall performance at QB this year then.. that is pretty recent history

[RoyleRedlegs]

(01-11-2016, 05:58 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Ok then i will take 10-2 as a starter  before he got hurt, comeback against Seattle and his overall performance at QB this year then.. that is pretty recent history

He also lead a comeback against Pittsburgh...in Pittsburgh

[Brownshoe]

(01-11-2016, 05:51 PM)BengalChris Wrote: You are just a AJM hater, face it.

RGIII can't QB his way out of his own way.

And of the ones you have listed, only Osweiler and Stanton aren't on their second team already or been previous starters.

We all know AJM is not Joe Montana. That doesn't mean he sucks or will suck.

I don't think AJM should start over Dalton, but gotta give the kid some credit. Offense, even though it looked pretty ugly at times, it put up our best postseason output in years.


Not sure why acknowledging that AJM did decent has to bring a single comment about Dalton. Dalton has nothing to do with this thread. Zero, nada, zilch.

How does the backups being previous starters mean anything? They are still backups and they are still better than McCarron.

[BigSeph]

(01-11-2016, 05:55 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Finally, in Dalton's first year, he surpassed expectations for sure.. so if you are comparing Dalton's first year to AJM first 4 games,, i am taking Dalton 

QB ratings for both players:

Andy Dalton 83.4 1st 3 NFL starts
AJ McCarron 102.4 1st 3 NFL starts

Andy Dalton 51.4 1st playoff start
AJ McCarron 68.3 1st playoff start

If you want to compare apples to apples.  I'm sure Andy didn't have the supporting cast AJ did though, and the players had to elevate their game for AJ but not Andy.

[BigSeph]

(01-11-2016, 06:06 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: How does the backups being previous starters mean anything? They are still backups and they are still better than McCarron.

By what metric?  Your opinion?

On QB rating, only 2 QBs in the NFL today have a higher career QB rating than AJ McCarron - Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson.  AJM is tied with Tony Romo at 97.1 for career QB rating.

AJ's QB rating is just above Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Drew Brees for their careers.

Why can't you guys just be objective and look at facts and figures?  AJM has lost 2 NFL games - one in OT against the best defense in the NFL on the road, and the other a rainy playoff game on a last second FG after he just drove the Bengals down the field for the game winning TD.

What is bad about this?

Anybody who rips McCarron makes completely irrational criticisms (like how he can't beat zone, or throw to a 2nd read) and then he goes out on the field and does exactly what his critics say he can't do.  He did both of those on the same play at the end of the game for the potential game-winning TD in a playoff game.

There is so much emotionally invested in Andy Dalton at this point that some Bengal fans feel like it's cheating on their wife if they say "AJM had a gutty performance and stepped up when needed in the 4th."

Well, that's exactly what happened.  Some folks just can't bring themselves to admit it.

[Essex Johnson]

So what is your point really.. are you trying to say AJM is a better QB than Dalton ?? I am not getting your point really .

My point is pretty simple.. AJM did a serviceable job as Daltons replacement but he is what he is.. the backup.. Dalton is a superior QB.. could AJM develop to Dalton;s level maybe.. will he with the Bengals.. probably not.

[BengalChris]

(01-11-2016, 06:06 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: How does the backups being previous starters mean anything? They are still backups and they are still better than McCarron.

RGIII is better than McCarron? Sanchez is better? Glennon is better?

How?

Even if all those guys are better, it has nothing to do with the fact that he did decent for his first playoff game and his first 4 starts.

[Brownshoe]

(01-11-2016, 06:13 PM)BigSeph Wrote: By what metric?  Your opinion?

On QB rating, only 2 QBs in the NFL today have a higher career QB rating than AJ McCarron - Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson.  AJM is tied with Tony Romo at 97.1 for career QB rating.

AJ's QB rating is just above Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Drew Brees for their careers.

Why can't you guys just be objective and look at facts and figures?  AJM has lost 2 NFL games - one in OT against the best defense in the NFL on the road, and the other a rainy playoff game on a last second FG after he just drove the Bengals down the field for the game winning TD.

What is bad about this?

Anybody who rips McCarron makes completely irrational criticisms (like how he can't beat zone, or throw to a 2nd read) and then he goes out on the field and does exactly what his critics say he can't do.  He did both of those on the same play at the end of the game for the potential game-winning TD in a playoff game.

There is so much emotionally invested in Andy Dalton at this point that some Bengal fans feel like it's cheating on their wife if they say "AJM had a gutty performance and stepped up when needed in the 4th."

Well, that's exactly what happened.  Some folks just can't bring themselves to admit it.

All you have is a shitty passer rating. It doesn't mean anything when he can't move the ball down the field. He can't get yards. He can't lead a loaded offense down the field. The Bengals offense was #4 in PPG and when McCarron came in it went to #28. McCarron only got 2 first downs the first half. TWO! That's just pathetic against the 30th rated bass defense. Passer rating doesn't mean a damn thing when you can't move the ball.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-11-2016, 06:14 PM)BengalChris Wrote: RGIII is better than McCarron? Sanchez is better? Glennon is better?

How?

Even if all those guys are better, it has nothing to do with the fact that he did decent for his first playoff game and his first 4 starts.

I think AJM has potential.. I think he can and might be a good QB in the NFL but I am not ready to pass judgement on any QB after just 4 starts... 

I coached for 20 years and am retired from education.. I would never pass judgement on a player or a student after 4 games or just 4 grades in school year.. but I could develop a sense of how I thought that player or student might do for a season or a year in school... and trust me some players or students that I thought would develop did not, some that i would have said would not develop did...

[Brownshoe]

(01-11-2016, 06:14 PM)BengalChris Wrote: RGIII is better than McCarron? Sanchez is better? Glennon is better?

How?

Even if all those guys are better, it has nothing to do with the fact that he did decent for his first playoff game and his first 4 starts.

If you think McCarron did decent in that playoff game you might want to go to a doctor. There has to be something wrong with anyones brain who thinks that.

[McC]

The OLine couldn't control the LOS, there was no running game, it was pouring rain and he was trying to throw on most downs. For a guy in his fourth start, in a playoff game, did you really expect to see Brady out there?

[muskiesfan]

I'm blown away by the amount of people that say McCarron throws a better deep ball than Dalton. Dalton is near the top of the league when it comes to the deep ball. McCarron throws a bunch of wobblers and floaters. He had 1 or 2 good deep balls against Pittsburgh and that's it. Dalton gets crushed if he underthrows anyone. McCarron does it with frequency.

The best argument that could be made for McCarron might be intermediate throws. Even those are high and leave the WR out to dry. People constantly bitched about how Andy was going to get a receiver killed by throwing high. McCarron does it and everyone talks about how he's on his way to being great.

That's where people can't get their head out of their ass. I like McCarron. I thought he played pretty well for being an inexperienced backup. That's where it ends though. McCarron's "fan boys" (I hate these dumbass terms) prop McCarron up with the same things they tear Dalton down with. That's where a lot of Dalton "fan boys" have their issue. It's not with McCarron's play, it's that there are 2 completely different sets of standards. Dalton underthrow = ZOMG teh worst QB evas!!!!!11!! McCarron underthrow = amazeballs deep ball! trade the ginger! That's where people have a problem.

[McC]

Face it, a certain few have some crazy bug up their asses about the guy which somehow prevents them from giving him anything but hate.

Yes, it's weird and irrational but it is what it is. It's not AJ's fault the starter made the moronic play of the year and ended his own season.

He was given lemons and still found a way to make some lemonade but that still makes him a bum who is no better than Blaine ***** Gabbert.

[Brownshoe]

(01-11-2016, 06:28 PM)McC Wrote: Face it, a certain few have some crazy bug up their asses about the guy which somehow prevents them from giving him anything but hate.  

Yes, it's weird and irrational but it is what it is.  It's not AJ's fault the starter made the moronic play of the year and ended his own season.  

He was given lemons and still found a way to make some lemonade but that still makes him a bum who is no better than Blaine ***** Gabbert.

If McCarron could actually move the ball we would have won. It's hilarious to me that the absolute horrible play of McCarron is getting swept under the rug due to the total meltdown at the end of the game. McCarron had 2 first downs in the first half. He fumbled the ball 3 times, and he threw an INT and could have easily had more if the Pittsburgh defense didn't drop the INTs. He couldn't convert on 3rd down like all year, and he couldn't get any points unless he had amazing field possession. The offense looked like a college teams offense came on the field.

[XenoMorph]

(01-10-2016, 02:30 PM)McC Wrote: You didn't.  I didn't say you did.  I was agreeing with you that he put us in position to win.  His night was far from perfect but he gutted it out and got the job done.

AJM McCarron did better in the 2nd half for sure.

Should have had 5 scoring drives but 2 fumbles in redzone territory broke this game for us.

Not counting AJM fumbles but all things considered we were down 6-0 @ half

I wouldnt go as far as saying he put us in the position to win(only cause im giving all that credit to the Defense).. but he made plays down the stretch for sure. once he figured out his glove no glove thing..

[*Nately120*]

(01-11-2016, 06:32 PM)Brownshoe Wrote:  The offense looked like a college teams offense came on the field.

...which is progress from the high school-caliber offense we had been sporting in the playoffs before.