How do steeler fans feel about their coaches

[Beaker]

I am putting this thread in here and not smack talk because it is intended to get serious responses, not the face saving bravado it would get in the smack talk forum. My question revolves around steeler fans pride in their organization. I have always heard them refer to the steelers as a "model" organization. I believe the image of the steelers has been tarnished over the past couple seasons. How do steeler fans truly feel about the antics of their coaches? Tomlin stepping in the way of a ravens player, Munchak pulling a players hair, Porter on the field smack talking in the opposing teams defensive group. Don't we hold coaches to a higher standard than players as far as their actions and emotions? So, steeler fans, how do you truly feel about your coaching staff acting like this?

[Belsnickel]

I'm not a fan of our current staff. I know a lot of people have called the Steelers dirty for a long time, but there was something to be said for the tight ship that Chuck Noll ran. I'd much rather see a coach like that then what we have now. This isn't to say Cowher wasn't good and didn't have control, but he was in between Noll and Tomlin and not just in the timeline, but in their standards for conduct.

I have never been the most die-hard fan, but the Tomlin era has caused me to lose even more interest in the Steelers. Honestly, though, it is a part of the bigger problem that is the NFL and it's inability to effectively manage the teams and the games.

[GMDino]

I've defended Tomlin and I've criticized him. I think he has many faults that get glossed over because he's had some all pro players that make him look better than he is.

I think Haley is a good fit and has cut down on the "too cute plays".

I like what Butler has done in 98% of the games so far.

Heck even special teams gaffes haven't really stuck out this year.

Overall they are doing well...but that doesn't mean they can't all be better.

I think that the "reputation" the Steelers have is both good and bad. They have a model of consistency and winning. They also get a reputation for being hard hitting / crossing the line.

I also think the Bengals would relish having the same "reputation" on both counts.

This is a different NFL than even when Cowher was coach. They've changed rules in the middle of the season, the officials are under more pressure to "get it right" so they often call what they THINK they see vs what happened, and the league itself is under pressure to care about "player safety" not because they really care but because of possible lawsuits. Added up it leads to hits that would be good and celebrated just 5-6 years ago being illegal and fineable even if no foul was called. Its hard to put THAT on the coach vs say having players that can't funnel their emotions into their play and instead cross the line too often.

Just my 2 cents.

[6andcounting]

(01-12-2016, 04:24 PM)GMDino Wrote: I've defended Tomlin and I've criticized him. I think he has many faults that get glossed over because he's had some all pro players that make him look better than he is.

I think Haley is a good fit and has cut down on the "too cute plays".

I like what Butler has done in 98% of the games so far.

Heck even special teams gaffes haven't really stuck out this year.

Overall they are doing well...but that doesn't mean they can't all be better.

I think that the "reputation" the Steelers have is both good and bad. They have a model of consistency and winning. They also get a reputation for being hard hitting / crossing the line.

I also think the Bengals would relish having the same "reputation" on both counts.

This is a different NFL than even when Cowher was coach. They've changed rules in the middle of the season, the officials are under more pressure to "get it right" so they often call what they THINK they see vs what happened, and the league itself is under pressure to care about "player safety" not because they really care but because of possible lawsuits. Added up it leads to hits that would be good and celebrated just 5-6 years ago being illegal and fineable even if no foul was called. Its hard to put THAT on the coach vs say having players that can't funnel their emotions into their play and instead cross the line too often.

Just my 2 cents.

Agreed. To the very first part, Tomlin is a very good coach but continually makes decision and field teams for games against worthlesd that are unacceptable for a veteran coach. I think his clock management skills have gotten worse over the years.

[Aquapod770]

(01-12-2016, 04:24 PM)GMDino Wrote: I've defended Tomlin and I've criticized him.  I think he has many faults that get glossed over because he's had some all pro players that make him look better than he is.

I think Haley is a good fit and has cut down on the "too cute plays".

I like what Butler has done in 98% of the games so far.

Heck even special teams gaffes haven't really stuck out this year.

Overall they are doing well...but that doesn't mean they can't all be better.

I think that the "reputation" the Steelers have is both good and bad.  They have a model of consistency and winning.  They also get a reputation for being hard hitting / crossing the line.

I also think the Bengals would relish having the same "reputation" on both counts.

This is a different NFL than even when Cowher was coach.  They've changed rules in the middle of the season, the officials are under more pressure to "get it right" so they often call what they THINK they see vs what happened, and the league itself is under pressure to care about "player safety" not because they really care but because of possible lawsuits.  Added up it leads to hits that would be good and celebrated just 5-6 years ago being illegal and fineable even if no foul was called.  Its hard to put THAT on the coach vs say having players that can't funnel their emotions into their play and instead cross the line too often.

Just my 2 cents.

This is why it makes no sense that penalties aren't reviewable. How would it hurt the game at all? Make the refs look bad? They already do. Slow the game down? How long does a review actually take 1-2 min? Plus they tend to go to commercial break anyway, so that's just more ad revenue. There is really no reason why not to give the coaches 2 extra challenges per game specifically for penalties. 

[GMDino]

(01-12-2016, 04:35 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: This is why it makes no sense that penalties aren't reviewable. How would it hurt the game at all? Make the refs look bad? They already do. Slow the game down? How long does a review actually take 1-2 min? Plus they tend to go to commercial break anyway, so that's just more ad revenue. There is really no reason why not to give the coaches 2 extra challenges per game specifically for penalties. 

I would have no problem with that.

[StLucieBengal]

Just let all the hits go. Let the guys play. The only time there should be a flag is if guys are standing over or taunting.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-12-2016, 04:24 PM)GMDino Wrote: I've defended Tomlin and I've criticized him.  I think he has many faults that get glossed over because he's had some all pro players that make him look better than he is.

I think Haley is a good fit and has cut down on the "too cute plays".

I like what Butler has done in 98% of the games so far.

Heck even special teams gaffes haven't really stuck out this year.

Overall they are doing well...but that doesn't mean they can't all be better.

I think that the "reputation" the Steelers have is both good and bad.  They have a model of consistency and winning.  They also get a reputation for being hard hitting / crossing the line.

I also think the Bengals would relish having the same "reputation" on both counts.

This is a different NFL than even when Cowher was coach.  They've changed rules in the middle of the season, the officials are under more pressure to "get it right" so they often call what they THINK they see vs what happened, and the league itself is under pressure to care about "player safety" not because they really care but because of possible lawsuits.  Added up it leads to hits that would be good and celebrated just 5-6 years ago being illegal and fineable even if no foul was called.  Its hard to put THAT on the coach vs say having players that can't funnel their emotions into their play and instead cross the line too often.

Just my 2 cents.

Agreed....but what about the coaches' DIRECT involvement in a couple of games/pre game over the last few years?  You down with that?

[GMDino]

(01-13-2016, 11:28 AM)Wyche Wrote: Agreed....but what about the coaches' DIRECT involvement in a couple of games/pre game over the last few years?  You down with that?

I think the organization should have done something to Tomli after the stepping on to the field event...not just accept what the league did.

I still think Munchak has zero rep as dirty as a player OR a coach so I'm not sure what happened there.  And Porter?  Hard to give him the benefit of the doubt too, except there have been no incidents since he's been a coach with the team.

I do *NOT* think Tomlin can control his players as well as I would like (Gay's TD celebrations for example).

I *DO* think if there are any more incidents like Sunday the organization better clamp down on the coaches...starting with the head coach.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-13-2016, 01:28 PM)GMDino Wrote: I think the organization should have done something to Tomli after the stepping on to the field event...not just accept what the league did.

I still think Munchak has zero rep as dirty as a player OR a coach so I'm not sure what happened there.  And Porter?  Hard to give him the benefit of the doubt too, except there have been no incidents since he's been a coach with the team.

I do *NOT* think Tomlin can control his players as well as I would like (Gay's TD celebrations for example).

I *DO* think if there are any more incidents like Sunday the organization better clamp down on the coaches...starting with the head coach.

Yep....and Marvin needs to rein in his players NOW, or get headed.  I will disagree about Porter though....he was part of the BS both teams engaged in prior to the previous tilt at PBS, and was talking trash from the sidelines that game too.  Paul Guenther even approached him prior to the playoff game about it.  He should be suspended by the Steelers if the league won't.

I don't know what happened to Munchak either....but if the refs would have tossed him right then, they send a message to both teams.  Peko should have been ejected too.

Just my .02 cents.

[Bengalzona]

I like Haley. He is a good coach.

I think the organization was smart to put a 'gag order' on Porter following Saturday nights game. This is a good time for him to keep quiet, something he has trouble with.

I think Tomlin is an okay coach, but allows a questionable looseness in his coaching staff. (BTW- I don't think Marvin is any better in that regard, at least with the players).

[Belsnickel]

(01-13-2016, 01:56 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: I like Haley. He is a good coach.

I think the organization was smart to put a 'gag order' on Porter following Saturday nights game. This is a good time for him to keep quiet, something he has trouble with.

I think Tomlin is an okay coach, but allows a questionable looseness in his coaching staff. (BTW- I don't think Marvin is any better in that regard, at least with the players).

I didn't like Haley at first. When they announced him for the OC I was not pleased. But given the performance the offense has put out there, I can't complain. And doing it with a RB that can't stay healthy is a bonus.

I'm unhappy with our defense, though, and have been for a few years. Even with Lebeau, our defense had lost the edge. He is a great defensive mind, but the league knows his tricks now and it will be interesting to see if we can turn that around in the coming years.

I'm not a fan of Tomlin. He is too much of a friend to the players. You have to walk a fine line, there, and he is too much on the side of "buddy" rather than coach from the interactions I see, and I think that is what can lead to some of the behavior issues.

[Vas Deferens]

(01-13-2016, 02:06 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I'm not a fan of Tomlin. He is too much of a friend to the players. You have to walk a fine line, there, and he is too much on the side of "buddy" rather than coach from the interactions I see, and I think that is what can lead to some of the behavior issues.

I've always noticed this as well, always assumed it was because of his age.  The fine line you speak of reminds me of that john wooden quote "A coach is someone who can give correction without causing resentment."  Has to be more difficult to do that when the age difference between coach and player is smaller and the 'buddy' relationship is a tool to keep the resentment at bay.

Will be very interesting to see how Gase approaches this with the Dolphins

[Belsnickel]

(01-13-2016, 02:31 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: I've always noticed this as well, always assumed it was because of his age.  The fine line you speak of reminds me of that john wooden quote "A coach is someone who can give correction without causing resentment."  Has to be more difficult to do that when the age difference between coach and player is smaller and the 'buddy' relationship is a tool to keep the resentment at bay.

Will be very interesting to see how Gase approaches this with the Dolphins

I remember this coming up with him when he first got to Pittsburgh because he and Farrior were in college at about the same time and they played each other, IIRC. I actually remember seeing Tomlin play because W&M is a division rival for JMU and we had season tickets when I was younger (before they got outrageously priced and they gave them to Faculty/Staff on the cheap). He's to the point now where he won't get too many players close to him in age, but I think him starting off as a head coach and having that influences how he will act with the players going forward.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

Munchak is, by far, the best O-line coach the Steelers have ever had.  Since he arrived Marcus Gilbert has transformed into a solid NFL OT.  Wallace has stepped in almost seamlessly for Pouncey.  Decastro (not Zeitler ;P) has developed into an AP first teamer.  The most amazing development?  We have an off the street FA starting at LT in Villy and he's holding his own and improving every week.  We haven't had a late round/FA gem on the O-line since Justin Strzelczyk.  I'd pay close to HC money to keep Munchak on staff.  As for this weekend, he has zero rep as a dirty player or coach and so gets a huge benefit of the doubt from me.

Butler is doing a commendable job as DC.  He has his clunker, like the game plan against Mallet, but he also has shown a willingness to adjust when the original plan does not work.  Why Blake continues to start, or see significant playing time, is beyond me though.

As far as Porter, he was brought in to bring some of that fire and intensity he had as a player.  He's definitely done that.  I have no doubt he was shit talking in last weeks game but I am equally sure he wasn't the only one and we have visual evidence that Gilberry is the one who escalated things to a physical level.

[StLucieBengal]

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2016/1/13/10764832/jason-whitlock-says-people-are-afraid-to-criticize-steelers-coach

Pretty interesting opinion on Mike Tomlin from Jason Whitlocm

[Vlad]

(01-12-2016, 02:33 PM)Beaker Wrote: I am putting this thread in here and not smack talk because it is intended to get serious responses, not the face saving bravado it would get in the smack talk forum. My question revolves around steeler fans pride in their organization. I have always heard them refer to the steelers as a "model" organization. I believe the image of the steelers has been tarnished over the past couple seasons. How do steeler fans truly feel about the antics of their coaches? Tomlin stepping in the way of a ravens player, Munchak pulling a players hair, Porter on the field smack talking in the opposing teams defensive group. Don't we hold coaches to a higher standard than players as far as their actions and emotions? So, steeler fans, how do you truly feel about your coaching staff acting like this?

First of all don't act you've only heard that from Steelers fans. The model franchise distinction also comes from other facets of the sports world... all the way down to the haters. I would venture to say you heard it more coming from bengal fans than Steeler fans. 

[Bengalsrob]

(01-13-2016, 11:26 PM)Vlad Wrote: First of all don't act you've only heard that from Steelers fans. The model franchise distinction also comes from other facets of the sports world... all the way down to the haters. I would venture to say you heard it more coming from bengal fans than Steeler fans. 

No, we have heard it from Steeler fans, long-time supporters. From trolls, not so much.

[Beaker]

(01-13-2016, 11:26 PM)Vlad Wrote: First of all don't act you've only heard that from Steelers fans. The model franchise distinction also comes from other facets of the sports world... all the way down to the haters. I would venture to say you heard it more coming from bengal fans than Steeler fans. 

Thanks for answering the question.