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(01-13-2016, 12:21 PM)Wyche Wrote: Because no flag necessitates another play to get into FG range w/o any TOs. 
Ah, and because there were no timeouts he did it because it wouldn't cost them anything. I suppose I see the point.
I still find it easier to believe it was a game that was poorly officiated multiple times (No penalty on the Shazier hit? No unsportsmanlike for Burfict running into the damn tunnel with the ball?) and they missed a flag on Porter due to incompetence than some grand scheme.
Porter I can believe did stuff intentionally, though it was risky to do so... because he's a proven scumbag.
I find it easier to believe those two things happened than a bunch of other things happening all at once on purpose. Brown is a competitor, it's like imagining Vontaze faking an injury that would take him off the field in the last drive. I just don't see it. Superstars want to not only win, but they want to be the hero. I just can't imagine him taking himself out of the game, when if it doesn't draw a flag, it means he can't play the last drive.
And to everyone calling me a Steeler's fan, I don't see how that makes sense. Not wanting a player on my team to make accusations on TV makes me a Steeler's fan? No. I already said we got screwed by the refs. That doesn't mean whoever can say absolutely whatever.
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(01-13-2016, 12:32 PM)BeepBeepWoo Wrote: Ah, and because there were no timeouts he did it because it wouldn't cost them anything. I suppose I see the point.
I still find it easier to believe it was a game that was poorly officiated multiple times (No penalty on the Shazier hit? No unsportsmanlike for Burfict running into the damn tunnel with the ball?) and they missed a flag on Porter due to incompetence than some grand scheme.
Porter I can believe did stuff intentionally, though it was risky to do so... because he's a proven scumbag.
I find it easier to believe those two things happened than a bunch of other things happening all at once on purpose. Brown is a competitor, it's like imagining Vontaze faking an injury that would take him off the field in the last drive. I just don't see it. Superstars want to not only win, but they want to be the hero. I just can't imagine him taking himself out of the game, when if it doesn't draw a flag, it means he can't play the last drive.
And to everyone calling me a Steeler's fan, I don't see how that makes sense. Not wanting a player on my team to make accusations on TV makes me a Steeler's fan? No. I already said we got screwed by the refs. That doesn't mean whoever can say absolutely whatever.
Yeah....it's possible that he flopped, but maybe not plausible. I mean, afterall, we have to give Biz Markie Tomlin credit for devising this whole scheme....then again..... 
But yeah. To me, this all started with Muchak. The league said they were gonna be tough, Munchak should have gotten the boot. Shazier should've been flagged and possibly ejected, Peko should have been ejected, Burfict flagged for the tunnel fiasco.....it goes on and on. The officiating was an embarrassment of epic proportions.
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(01-13-2016, 11:35 AM)Wyche Wrote: They just posted a link to a Pittsburgh-Post/Gazette/whatever the **** it's called newspaper article in this very thread stating such my man....
The link posted is three days old and quotes an article from Sunday. ESPN and NFL Network are both reporting that he is in the concussion protocol, that he did not practice yesterday, and it is not likely he will play on Saturday.
My question is this... assuming he did fake the injury, why lay on the turf for such an extended period of time? The flag came out immediately, so assuming it was a ruse, he got the reaction he was looking for. Why lay there for five minutes? It's not like they were going to throw another flag because he was on the turf longer...
Regardless, Pacman is looking like more and more of an ass. The point of the thread is that he is doing himself and his family harm the more he talks. I don't think that is in much doubt.
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(01-13-2016, 12:38 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yeah....it's possible that he flopped, but maybe not plausible. I mean, afterall, we have to give Biz Markie Tomlin credit for devising this whole scheme....then again.....
But yeah. To me, this all started with Muchak. The league said they were gonna be tough, Munchak should have gotten the boot. Shazier should've been flagged and possibly ejected, Peko should have been ejected, Burfict flagged for the tunnel fiasco.....it goes on and on. The officiating was an embarrassment of epic proportions.
The officiating crew should never see another field. I don't know if they are protected by a union, or how their contracts work, but they should never officiate another game.
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(01-13-2016, 12:45 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: The link posted is three days old and quotes an article from Sunday. ESPN and NFL Network are both reporting that he is in the concussion protocol, that he did not practice yesterday, and it is not likely he will play on Saturday.
My question is this... assuming he did fake the injury, why lay on the turf for such an extended period of time? The flag came out immediately, so assuming it was a ruse, he got the reaction he was looking for. Why lay there for five minutes? It's not like they were going to throw another flag because he was on the turf longer...
Regardless, Pacman is looking like more and more of an ass. The point of the thread is that he is going himself and his family harm the more he talks. I don't think that is in much doubt.
(01-13-2016, 12:48 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: The officiating crew should never see another field. I don't know if they are protected by a union, or how their contracts work, but they should never officiate another game.
Doubly agreed.....but there is always that doubt in the back of my mind when it comes to the Stoolers. Also, if he jumps up in a few seconds or whatever, do they get a delay penalty there, or a clock runoff? I dunno. Jones is most likely poking the hornet's nest.....but if dude plays Sunday, I'm not so sure.
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(01-13-2016, 12:45 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: The link posted is three days old and quotes an article from Sunday. ESPN and NFL Network are both reporting that he is in the concussion protocol, that he did not practice yesterday, and it is not likely he will play on Saturday.
My question is this... assuming he did fake the injury, why lay on the turf for such an extended period of time? The flag came out immediately, so assuming it was a ruse, he got the reaction he was looking for. Why lay there for five minutes? It's not like they were going to throw another flag because he was on the turf longer...
Regardless, Pacman is looking like more and more of an ass. The point of the thread is that he is going himself and his family harm the more he talks. I don't think that is in much doubt.
1. I posted the link to the article because some people said there was no article saying he'd play at Denver. That was not true.
2. There's a long and storied history of players faking injury for the purpose of giving their team a free timeout. Is that not possible here? Brown drew a flag, gave his offense a rest, gave the coaches time to decide how to proceed, and ultimately gave them time to illicit more free yardage.
3. Jones is sticking to his guns. He's putting it on the line by saying he'll back down if Brown proves to have been sufficiently injured to not play in the next game. Mitchell didn't apologize to Eifert, and Jones wasn't even the guy accused of hitting Brown... As for doing he and his family harm: He still owes millions to the guy from the strip joint. This doesn't hurt anything.
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(01-13-2016, 12:55 PM)gobobro Wrote: 1. I posted the link to the article because some people said there was no article saying he'd play at Denver. That was not true.
2. There's a long and storied history of players faking injury for the purpose of giving their team a free timeout. Is that not possible here? Brown drew a flag, gave his offense a rest, gave the coaches time to decide how to proceed, and ultimately gave them time to illicit more free yardage.
3. Jones is sticking to his guns. He's putting it on the line by saying he'll back down if Brown proves to have been sufficiently injured to not play in the next game. Mitchell didn't apologize to Eifert, and Jones wasn't even the guy accused of hitting Brown... As for doing he and his family harm: He still owes millions to the guy from the strip joint. This doesn't hurt anything.
Good point.....
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(01-13-2016, 12:55 PM)gobobro Wrote: 1. I posted the link to the article because some people said there was no article saying he'd play at Denver. That was not true.
2. There's a long and storied history of players faking injury for the purpose of giving their team a free timeout. Is that not possible here? Brown drew a flag, gave his offense a rest, gave the coaches time to decide how to proceed, and ultimately gave them time to illicit more free yardage.
3. Jones is sticking to his guns. He's putting it on the line by saying he'll back down if Brown proves to have been sufficiently injured to not play in the next game. Mitchell didn't apologize to Eifert, and Jones wasn't even the guy accused of hitting Brown... As for doing he and his family harm: He still owes millions to the guy from the strip joint. This doesn't hurt anything.
2. Is it possible? Yes, it is. But I'm not big on accusing people of things because they might be possible. That's an awful, awful way to go through life. Like I said, the officials were terrible. Inarguable. They missed OBVIOUS penalties on both teams. Porter is a known scumbag who does this kind of stuff. Brown has no history of faking injury, and a history of trying to play no matter what... I wouldn't just assume he did that.
3. Jones is sticking to his guns, but changing his story. He's adding details, like the wink, saying he's "good friends with AB" (which is funny, because the first time he accused him of flopping, he called him Antonio Bryant, who doesn't know their friend's name?)... in short, if your kid came to you with this story as an excuse, tell me those two added details aren't red flags. They literally sound like the details I used to add when I was 7 or 8 and caught in a lie.
I'm not trying to claim Jones is some horrible person, I'm saying that for saying these things, I'm saying he should probably quit while he's ahead. There have been people in protocol that did have a concussion cleared in under a week, so even if he plays, it doesn't vindicate him. And there are some whom it takes weeks for... in which case he looks like a complete jerk. There is no "win" in what he's doing - this topic is just a hope that he sees that.
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(01-13-2016, 12:55 PM)gobobro Wrote: 1. I posted the link to the article because some people said there was no article saying he'd play at Denver. That was not true.
2. There's a long and storied history of players faking injury for the purpose of giving their team a free timeout. Is that not possible here? Brown drew a flag, gave his offense a rest, gave the coaches time to decide how to proceed, and ultimately gave them time to illicit more free yardage.
3. Jones is sticking to his guns. He's putting it on the line by saying he'll back down if Brown proves to have been sufficiently injured to not play in the next game. Mitchell didn't apologize to Eifert, and Jones wasn't even the guy accused of hitting Brown... As for doing he and his family harm: He still owes millions to the guy from the strip joint. This doesn't hurt anything.
Unfortunately the offense does not need a rest. And I guarantee you this was not some scheme concocted by Tomlin that would take his best player off the field for the final plays if the flag is not thrown... think about it, if the flag on Jones is not thrown, they have to decide if they are ok kicking a longer than 50 yard field goal in crappy weather or if they want to quickly try to get a few yards with a throw down the sidelines. You honestly think either Tomlin or Brown would choose to have him sitting on the sidelines for this play? Hell no, he would be the number one target in such a scenario.
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(01-13-2016, 12:51 PM)Wyche Wrote: Doubly agreed.....but there is always that doubt in the back of my mind when it comes to the Stoolers. Also, if he jumps up in a few seconds or whatever, do they get a delay penalty there, or a clock runoff? I dunno. Jones is most likely poking the hornet's nest.....but if dude plays Sunday, I'm not so sure.
They would not get a penalty or clock runoff, because the play clock stops on a defensive penalty.
Like I said, it's possible this happened, and for fans on a message board? Sure, whatever, go at it, claim he flopped or at least question it. But to say it on the air repeatedly? That's accusing someone of cheating without proof professionally, I can't get behind that.
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(01-13-2016, 01:01 PM)BeepBeepWoo Wrote: 2. Is it possible? Yes, it is. But I'm not big on accusing people of things because they might be possible. That's an awful, awful way to go through life. Like I said, the officials were terrible. Inarguable. They missed OBVIOUS penalties on both teams. Porter is a known scumbag who does this kind of stuff. Brown has no history of faking injury, and a history of trying to play no matter what... I wouldn't just assume he did that.
3. Jones is sticking to his guns, but changing his story. He's adding details, like the wink, saying he's "good friends with AB" (which is funny, because the first time he accused him of flopping, he called him Antonio Bryant, who doesn't know their friend's name?)... in short, if your kid came to you with this story as an excuse, tell me those two added details aren't red flags. They literally sound like the details I used to add when I was 7 or 8 and caught in a lie.
I'm not trying to claim Jones is some horrible person, I'm saying that for saying these things, I'm saying he should probably quit while he's ahead. There have been people in protocol that did have a concussion cleared in under a week, so even if he plays, it doesn't vindicate him. And there are some whom it takes weeks for... in which case he looks like a complete jerk. There is no "win" in what he's doing - this topic is just a hope that he sees that.
To be clear hear: You asked for a reason, assuming Brown was faking, why he would lay on the ground so long. I gave you a reason why. You are now saying that accusing people of things because they might be true is a terrible way to go through life... I don't think that's the appropriate response to answering your hypothetical.
I will now leave this debate. I just don't think this is devolving in a productive direction. (not bashing you. it just feels like we've hit the point where we lose sight of the forest through the trees, sight of the trees through the leaves, etc...).
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(01-13-2016, 01:06 PM)BeepBeepWoo Wrote: They would not get a penalty or clock runoff, because the play clock stops on a defensive penalty.
Like I said, it's possible this happened, and for fans on a message board? Sure, whatever, go at it, claim he flopped or at least question it. But to say it on the air repeatedly? That's accusing someone of cheating without proof professionally, I can't get behind that.
Where did he say he is "good friends" with Brown? Wouldn't you think he would not go on television and radio continuously calling his friend a cheat and a liar??
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(01-13-2016, 01:06 PM)BeepBeepWoo Wrote: They would not get a penalty or clock runoff, because the play clock stops on a defensive penalty.
Like I said, it's possible this happened, and for fans on a message board? Sure, whatever, go at it, claim he flopped or at least question it. But to say it on the air repeatedly? That's accusing someone of cheating without proof professionally, I can't get behind that.
Right...and I can agree with what you're saying.....but if he doesn't sell the penalty and it isn't flagged......then there's no clock stoppage.
Not saying I buy it, just the reasoning with it......
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(01-13-2016, 01:11 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Where did he say he is "good friends" with Brown? Wouldn't you think he would not go on television and radio continuously calling his friend a cheat and a liar??
4:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF8GiTFV5vc&feature=youtu.be
"I have nothing to say to Jerry (again!??!) Porter, if I saw him I would walk the other way. On the hand, me and Antonio Brown are REALLY good friends."
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(01-13-2016, 01:22 PM)Wyche Wrote: Right...and I can agree with what you're saying.....but if he doesn't sell the penalty and it isn't flagged......then there's no clock stoppage.
Not saying I buy it, just the reasoning with it......
There's still a clock stoppage, rememeber, the pass was incomplete.
Unless he planned to lay there for 30 seconds even if there was no flag, but all that would do is get them a delay of game.
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(01-13-2016, 01:24 PM)BeepBeepWoo Wrote: There's still a clock stoppage, rememeber, the pass was incomplete.
Yep....forgot that nugget.
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(01-13-2016, 01:11 PM)gobobro Wrote: To be clear hear: You asked for a reason, assuming Brown was faking, why he would lay on the ground so long. I gave you a reason why. You are now saying that accusing people of things because they might be true is a terrible way to go through life... I don't think that's the appropriate response to answering your hypothetical.
I will now leave this debate. I just don't think this is devolving in a productive direction. (not bashing you. it just feels like we've hit the point where we lose sight of the forest through the trees, sight of the trees through the leaves, etc...).
Fair enough, though my main point of my second point was actually the latter half: Brown doesn't have a history of faking injury, and I would use that as a baseline rather than "People in the NFL have". Ben R. for example, though he has played through real injuries, is a known drama queen and has made some up. I would totally accept "he has a history" if this happened to him. That's what I had meant.
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Anyone that takes pacman seriously needs their head examined. Guy is a walking and talking 0 point 0.
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I love Pacman as a player but his off field antics have reached its limit.
Great corner, and a HoF caliber returner if he was given the chance.
Still, if the Bengals want to save face at all the will cut this guy. I don't think its wise to give him a new contract regardless, but with how he has acted the last few days, it may be best just to cut ties and let him go.
I'm sure the organization feels the same about Pacman that I do tho so it will be hard to cut him loose. He served us well but he is nearing the end of his career and not helping his case of being socially rehabilitated at all.
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