Ok lets get off last Saturday, we have beaten ourselves up over it enough!!! Lets move on to 2016.
Out of the list below who do you want to see retained, lets try to be realistic about this as well and realize it will probably be 3-5 of the gentleman listed in the group.
Out of this group my picks to stay would be:
M Jones
R Nelson
V Rey
B Thompson
"We have been sentenced to life in the prison that is a Bengals fan and we are going to serve out our time"
Any and all if needed...The cap is going up and all of these players salaries drop from the books...there is no reason not to retain more than 3-5 of them if they need be...Hell. Leon Hall's 9 million off the books gives you enough to sign Illoka and Nelson right off the bat
Leon Hall - Let him go. If the new secondary coach can make an argument for a safety spot, maybe. He's a good tackler, but has lost what little speed he had.
Andre Smith - Let him go. We drafted two guys to replace him last year. Also, his strength was run blocking, and I didn't think he did that very well this year.
Emmanuel Lamur - Let him go. His skill set has translated into being a successful project. Find a new project.
Eric Winston - Let him go. He was old last year, older this year, and ready for new opportunities in life. We can find a better veteran for the same price, I think.
Brandon Tate - Let him go. He's worthless as a receiver, and the returner you put in when you don't expect a returnable kick.
T.J. Johnson - My hope is we draft a guy that makes Bodine the backup. Otherwise, I'd still rotate linemen before putting Johnson on the field.
Mohamed Sanu - Maybe, leaning on letting him go. He has a touch of dazzle dazzle, but disappeared for most of the last two seasons.
Pat Sims - Maybe. He was serviceable, but mostly invisible. I'd prefer to draft Peko's replacement (hopefully, another Samoan. The team needs Samoans).d
Brandon Thompson - Maybe. He was also serviceable, but invisible. I'd rather get Harrison playing time.
Vincent Rey - Probably keep. He's Swiss-Army-Knife depth. I don't want him taking snaps from starters, but he's smart enough to help fill in anywhere on the line if we need him.
Wallace Gilberry - Probably keep. He's depth, but solid depth. I like him.
Marvin Jones - Keep. Between him and Sanu, Jones is head and shoulders better.
Reggie Nelson - Keep. Unless he chases Joseph to Florida, I'd like to keep him. Always been a fan.
Adam Jones - Keep. He'll likely always be a hothead, but he helps WAY more than he hurts.
George Iloka - Keep! He hasn't had as flashy a season as Nelson, but he's young and good.
There are a while lot of duos where it should be a priority to keep at least one, and only keep both of the price is right:
Marvin Jones and Sanu
Iloka and Nelson
Thompson and Sims.
Ready to be done with: Andre Smith.
Everyone else for me is someone I keep of they don't cost too much. Based on that, I expect Tate and Ball back, doubt Adam Jones comes back, and I have no real feel on anyone else.
It really comes down to what price you can get them for.
Iloka and Nelson are going to command more than Hall or Sims.
I believe Pat Sims will be back on a cheap deal and will have to compete at camp.
I believe Leon Hall could be back on a cheap deal and have to compete at camp for a reserve spot.
Iloka and Nelson will receive interest from other teams, particular from Minnesota and Miami, but I wouldn't be surprised if a number of team pursue them. NE comes to mind and some AFCN teams.
Interest in Adam Jones could be low due to his antics, but I expect Zimmer and Joseph to express interest.
Marvin Jones won't receive much interest. Injury history and so-so production except for the one year. Sanu will also receive limited interest. Marvin Jones is clearly the better of the two and we could spend a draft pick to replace Sanu and we might do that even if we do keep both.
Andre Smith's time is up as a starter. Doubt he'll take the pay cut to stay as a backup, but I also doubt anyone is going to offer him much either.
Vincent Rey and Emmanuel Lamur could be kept at right price. Neither are going to receive much interest I don't think.
Wallace Gilberry could be kept at a reasonable price and I expect this since he gets playing time, is liked by the coaches and doesn't cost a lot.
Eric Winston will likely be gone, but could keep as an inexpensive 4th tackle.
TJ Johnson could make it to camp to compete for a job, but I believe we'll draft a C.
Brandon Tate is a Marvin Lewis favorite so I expect we'll resign him even though I don't know why. We could spend a draft pick on a returner/WR with much better skills.
Reggie - Is 32, so long as the deal doesn't go beyond 3 years I'd like to see him back. The Pro Bowl nod and ending up tied for the INT lead will drive his price up though.
Iloka - Should be brought back, I'm hoping the nagging groin injury this season dampens his value on the open market.
M.Jones - The better of the two (Sanu being the other) as a pure outside WR. Would love to see him back. It'll be interesting to see how much attention he gets if allowed to hit the open market. I'm hoping (in vain no doubt) that other teams look at Jones and think 'Alvin Harper' when it comes time to put their money on the table. Missing all of '14 could also lower his value on the market.
Sanu - I'd say the more versatile (not better) of the two FA WR's. He can function as a 2, works well in the slot, and has shown on occasion to be useful in our trickery. Of the two I'd expect him to be easier to retain, but wouldn't be shocked to see someone snatch him up for his utility.
A.Smith - I'm curious to see where he goes. If he comes back it'll be like last time, because no one else really bothered to kick the tires on him. 1-2 year deal at most if he somehow is brought back, but Fisher and Ogbuehi, coupled with Whit's extension during the season, make it highly unlikely.
L.Hall - If Hall comes back it'll certainly be at a massive pay cut and (hopefully) a position change to Safety. Hall would be my guess to replace Reggie in the short term if Reggie bails.
Lamur - I don't dislike the guy, but when you're the team's "coverage" LB and the team has habitual problems with covering HB's and TE's...well...how good of a coverage guy is he really?
Rey - Special Teams staple, mostly consistent when getting snaps on D. If he comes back at or even below (preferably below) his current cap hit? Cool. If he suddenly is a 4+mil a year player? Goodbye!
Pacman - I'll be shocked if he leaves, not because the Bengals prevent it, but I just don't see a 32 year old CB with anger management issues and his history getting a massive payday, regardless of how well he's played the last few years.
Gilberry - I like him, seems like a good guy, and a solid player. His versatility will be the selling point for him in FA with his ability to slide all over the line. He isn't a stud pass rusher, that should help in keeping the price tag down. I view him as a good rotation piece, and more of a 'Jack of all trades, master of none' on the D-Line. That isn't meant as an insult, he's solid at both run defense and pass rushing, however he excels at neither.
Everyone else on the list was already on a 1 year deal or is an exclusive rights free agent (T.J. Johnson), they'll likely be back if the team wants them back and they want to come back. None of them did anything that I saw to suddenly warrant a long-term contract.
If any of our defensive FA not named Nelson, Jones or Iloka leave I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they left specifically for Minnesota. I don't see Gilberry, Rey, Hall or Lamur getting signed to either a big contract, or even signed to start for that matter. But I sure can see Zimmer continuing to try and bring in more of his guys. After losing out on MJ last off-season I can easily see him grabbing Wallace. Same goes for Hall, I can see Zim snagging him like he did this past year when T.Newman followed him to Minny.
I could also see Nelson, Jones or Iloka going to Minnesota, but those three I'd expect to get more attention from teams in general (O.K. maybe not Pacman). Miami is also a possibility now, specifically for the DB's.
On the plus side, even if there are massive defections, with the drafting they've done lately most of the replacements are already in place. Williams played alright in relief this year at S, the rooks played alright on the O-line, and P.J. Dawson should turn into a good LB. Only real spot of concern I'd have is at WR, but that can be addressed in this year's draft if need be.
(01-13-2016, 12:18 PM)gobobro Wrote: Leon Hall - Let him go. If the new secondary coach can make an argument for a safety spot, maybe. He's a good tackler, but has lost what little speed he had.
Andre Smith - Let him go. We drafted two guys to replace him last year. Also, his strength was run blocking, and I didn't think he did that very well this year.
Emmanuel Lamur - Let him go. His skill set has translated into being a successful project. Find a new project.
Eric Winston - Let him go. He was old last year, older this year, and ready for new opportunities in life. We can find a better veteran for the same price, I think.
Brandon Tate - Let him go. He's worthless as a receiver, and the returner you put in when you don't expect a returnable kick.
T.J. Johnson - My hope is we draft a guy that makes Bodine the backup. Otherwise, I'd still rotate linemen before putting Johnson on the field.
Mohamed Sanu - Maybe, leaning on letting him go. He has a touch of dazzle dazzle, but disappeared for most of the last two seasons.
Pat Sims - Maybe. He was serviceable, but mostly invisible. I'd prefer to draft Peko's replacement (hopefully, another Samoan. The team needs Samoans).d
Brandon Thompson - Maybe. He was also serviceable, but invisible. I'd rather get Harrison playing time.
Vincent Rey - Probably keep. He's Swiss-Army-Knife depth. I don't want him taking snaps from starters, but he's smart enough to help fill in anywhere on the line if we need him.
Wallace Gilberry - Probably keep. He's depth, but solid depth. I like him.
Marvin Jones - Keep. Between him and Sanu, Jones is head and shoulders better.
Reggie Nelson - Keep. Unless he chases Joseph to Florida, I'd like to keep him. Always been a fan.
Adam Jones - Keep. He'll likely always be a hothead, but he helps WAY more than he hurts.
George Iloka - Keep! He hasn't had as flashy a season as Nelson, but he's young and good.
I'd really like to keep Reggie Nelson as I still think he can be productive but depends on his injury and salary. Also i think he keeps the DB's lined up and with a new DB co-ordinator i'd value some carry over.
Leon Hall has had a great career but I was one of those calling for him to go this season. From what we saw of Josh Shaw and even Lewis-Harris we could have covered his snaps...definitely goes.
Vinnie Rey is a keeper. Very solid depth and special teams plus we are not having #55 for start of season.
Gilberry i like but i was expecting more this year. That said Hunt and Clarke are not at the races yet so keep him.
Adam Jones' mouth has brought his salary back into reach so i say we keep him but Marvin /Guenther need to be all over him next year.
Sanu is an interesting one. If Hue was still OC i reckon he was near certain to stay . If we're not doing wildcat, funky line ups his value as a pure 3rd WR I guess he could be replaced. Personally i like him but Marvin Jones is going to take money off him
(01-13-2016, 12:15 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: Marvin jones
Adam jones
Iloka
Nelson
Gilberry
Sanu
Rey
Sims
Hall
In that order, Marvin and Adam along with one of the safeties are must have imo
Pretty much my list, though I'd be looking for a healthier version of Sims and Hall. My free agents have to be on the field to be of any help....same for draft picks of course. Of all the 'abilities', availability is essential.
Some say you can place your ear next to his, and hear the ocean ....
Marvin Jones and Iloka, as many have said are my top priorities.
Adam Jones isn't far off. Although the sting from the playoff loss is fresh with images of his loss of control in mind, he is needed. Teams threw all over this defense when he was out in 2015. I believe that losing Pacman causes a major regression in the play of this defense. On top of that, replacing him will be extremely tough. Drafting a db likely means waiting at least two seasons to see him implemented in any real capacity as evidenced by Dennard and Kirkpatrick. Signing a fa to replace him would require a lot more money than I see this team sinking into an outside guy.
Gilberry. Likely not a high dollar re-signing. Still better than Clarke. Can still help in a rotation.
CLH: Seemed to play well late in the year. Cheap.
Sanu. I'd keep him at a moderate price. Continuity is the best thing for Dalton at this point. Keeping both FA wrs also means eliminating a need to draft a WR early.
Sims. Dirt cheap and still capable of being effective.
The defense didn't really miss a beat when Nelson was out, Shawn Williams is looking like a legit player back there.
Reggie would probably be 3rd on my list.
Marvin Jones and George Iloka have to be the top 2 guys brought back.
(01-13-2016, 04:49 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: The defense didn't really miss a beat when Nelson was out, Shawn Williams is looking like a legit player back there.
Reggie would probably be 3rd on my list.
Marvin Jones and George Iloka have to be the top 2 guys brought back.
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