History. Most underrated Bengal....among Bengal fans

[Shake n Blake]

(01-31-2016, 03:50 AM)Atomic Orange Wrote: TO/1 year - G:14/Rec:72/Yds:983/Avg:13.7/YdsG:70.2/Lng:78/Td:9/20+:15/40+:3/1stD:47/fum:0

Yet everyone hates/blames him because he is TO.

TO was a beast in stripes. Most of the people who knocked him were Carson apologists who had to come up with a reason for his 20 int's and 5 pick-sixes that year. Heck, TO almost single handedly beat the Steelers for us.

[BengalsRocker]

(01-31-2016, 06:33 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: TO was a beast in stripes. Most of the people who knocked him were Carson apologists who had to come up with a reason for his 20 int's and 5 pick-sixes that year. Heck, TO almost single handedly beat the Steelers for us.

Yeah I can understand bashing on "The Ocho", but TO showed up to play.

Maybe because he hyped himself as Batman.

Thems biig boots to fill.

[eoxyod]

(01-31-2016, 11:40 AM)BritishBengal Wrote: I have only been following the team since around 2008, but someone who I always liked, and wondered where he disappeared to was Chinedum Ndukwe. Not saying he is the most underrated Bengal, probably more a forgotten talent.

[*Nately120*]

(01-31-2016, 06:33 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: TO was a beast in stripes. Most of the people who knocked him were Carson apologists who had to come up with a reason for his 20 int's and 5 pick-sixes that year. Heck, TO almost single handedly beat the Steelers for us.

I feel like the "blame for 2010" got shuffled around until it became clear a number of people wouldn't return in 2011 and then they sort of became "the problems" by default.  It was originally Benson, Chad, TO, Marvin Lewis, Mike Brown (of course), and Carson...but Carson was sort of gaining favor by putting up some bizarrely good games with Simpson and Caldwell when Chad and TO were out.

Then when Marvin and Benson were sticking around more of the blame went to the guys who weren't coming back.  Anyways, I don't think there is any reason TO should hang his head for 2010, but that's just me.

[ElkValleyBengal]

(01-31-2016, 11:47 AM)Beaker Wrote: He played for the Bengals in the 88 SB. Then was lost to the Raiders in the first round of Plan B free agency. He played on some decent raider teams to. He was lost because the Bengals took his loyalty for granted and did not protect him. I think he was pretty much universally touted as a top G in the league.

Yes, it's true he played on two Super Bowl teams, but those two seasons accounted for half the winning seasons for the team during his 11 year stint (1982 & 1986 being the other two).  The overall team record for '79-'89 was basically .500 (85-83).  I used Grimm specifically to point out that even though I don't feel that Grimm was a better player, the fact the Redskins were perennial contenders essentially his entire career there ('81-'91) is a key reason he's in the Hall outside the fact of course he was an excellent guard.  The only two non winning seasons the Redskins had during his tenure there was an 8-8 '81 and a 7-9 '88.  They went to four Super Bowls during that span, winning three.

[seab00]

Bill Bergey    Only played a few years here, but I would rank him as the best Bengal LB.

[fredtoast]

(01-29-2016, 05:23 PM)bfine32 Wrote: John Thornton

When we first signed him as a free agent I felt he was underrated.  He was a former 2nd round pick who had started for one of the best defenses in the league.  But to me he was a 3-4 DE that was forced to play 4-3 DT.  He was not the hot garbage that some people claimed, but he didn't put up impressive numbers and the run defense was always weak with him as a starter.

[fredtoast]

(01-31-2016, 11:40 AM)BritishBengal Wrote: I have only been following the team since around 2008, but someone who I always liked, and wondered where he disappeared to was Chinedum Ndukwe. Not saying he is the most underrated Bengal, probably more a forgotten talent.

Fans fell in love with Chinny when he had a big game his rookie year.  He had two interceptions when we knocked the Browns out of the playoffs (maybe the only bright spot in that entire season).

[BengalFanInNJ]

James Brooks. Never got the publicity he deserved. Dude was a beast and produced even though he weight 100 pounds soaking wet.
Louis Breeden. Solid CB that had several key interceptions.
Bruce Kozerski. Overshadowed by Munoz. Played every position on offensive line.
Darryl Williams. Played on some bad Bengal teams but had a solid career with the Bengals and Redskins.

[Goalpost]

Bobby Kemp

[Shake n Blake]

(02-01-2016, 01:41 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I feel like the "blame for 2010" got shuffled around until it became clear a number of people wouldn't return in 2011 and then they sort of became "the problems" by default.  It was originally Benson, Chad, TO, Marvin Lewis, Mike Brown (of course), and Carson...but Carson was sort of gaining favor by putting up some bizarrely good games with Simpson and Caldwell when Chad and TO were out.

Then when Marvin and Benson were sticking around more of the blame went to the guys who weren't coming back.  Anyways, I don't think there is any reason TO should hang his head for 2010, but that's just me.

I'd say it's accurate that blame was shuffled around, but the whispers were much louder for TO than any of those other players. I guess it was partly because he was the only big addition to that 2009 squad that won the division. Expectations were high and results were disastrous. And of course...TO had that cancer reputation. It sounded right, but it didn't match reality. TO has always been a fantastic route runner so he wasn't causing all those INT's, and he wasn't in Cincy long enough to become a cancer. It took multiple seasons in SF, Philly and Dallas before TO became toxic.

As for those bizarrely good games without Chad/TO, Carson had an ok game against the Browns, he shredded the Chargers like he always does (if only they were an AFCN team) and he threw 2 picks and put up 7 points on the Ravens. People put too much stock into what amounted to be 1 great game against a team Carson always plays well against.

Ultimately, it was multiple things that led to a 4-12 record. The defense dropped off (from 4th in yards to 15th), Benson had a terrible season (3.5 ypc) and the offense turned it over 34 times (23 from Palmer, 5 from Benson).

[fredtoast]

(02-01-2016, 01:01 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Ultimately, it was multiple things that led to a 4-12 record. The defense dropped off (from 4th in yards to 15th), Benson had a terrible season (3.5 ypc) and the offense turned it over 34 times (23 from Palmer, 5 from Benson).

'10 was also the flip side of all the breaks we got in '09 when we came from behind to win multiple games in the final 2 minutes.  In '10 Tampa Bay scored 10 points in the final 1:30 to beat us by 3; we blew a 4th quarter lead to the Falcons; we blew a 17 point halftime lead against the Bills when we let one of the worst offenses in the league outscore us 31-0 in the second half (one of the most painful games I have ever watched in my long history of fandom); the Saints beat us on a td with only 0:31 left that would have never happened if Pat Sims had not jumped offsides on a fourth down when it looked like the Saints were not really going to run a play, but instead were just trying to draw the Bengals offsides.

It was a nightmare season all around.  Made worse by the sky high pre-season expectations.

[sonofstat]

(01-28-2016, 02:26 PM)Goalpost Wrote: Joe Walter.  Seventh round pick played in 166 games for the Bengals starting in 136 of them.

Great callout....superb player and unfortunate he injured his knee late in the Super Bowl year.


I will go with Richie Braham  - Ghiaicuc , Kyle Cook, Bodine.....we've never quite replaced what we had with Braham and the Steelers/Ravens NT's he had to face twice a year were no joke

[gobobro]

(01-29-2016, 05:23 PM)bfine32 Wrote: John Thornton

I think he was panned for not being what people wanted him to be, but deserving of a some of the criticism.

People wanted him to put up Tennessee numbers here, but we didn't have the other guys on the line to open things up for him. That's on the fans for expecting too much of the guy.

However, the team repeatedly asked him to put on weight so he could stand tough against the run, and he refused. He was thinking about his post playing days, and didn't want to do that to his body. As a middle aged man trying to take care of my body for the long haul, I can appreciate his choice. As a football fan, I can ding the guy for not making football decisions that would have helped his game.

In the end, I think he was a decent player who didn't do great things.