Most Overrated Bengals

[McC]

(01-30-2016, 11:45 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Tim Krumrie.

Really?  A DT who led his team in tackles?

[tigerseye]

(01-30-2016, 11:45 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Tim Krumrie.

No.

[J24]

(01-30-2016, 02:09 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 6'0, 6'0, and undrafted.

You know it's a thing when 6'0 WRs are their "little guys".

Yes the Bengals are dumb because they like the rest of the NFL prefer to draft bigger taller wide outs. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-30-2016, 08:49 PM)J24 Wrote: Yes the Bengals are dumb because they like the rest of the NFL prefer to draft bigger taller wide outs. 

No, the Bengals are dumb because they, unlike the rest of the NFL, prefer to draft bigger taller wide outs to such a point that height matters more than the ability to run routes, play against press, get separation, or catch the ball. You know, general football skills.

[J24]

(01-30-2016, 09:57 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: No, the Bengals are dumb because they, unlike the rest of the NFL, prefer to draft bigger taller wide outs to such a point that height matters more than the ability to run routes, play against press, get separation, or catch the ball. You know, general football skills.

So drafting AJ green was a mistake? Or drafting  Marvin Jones was a mistake? 

[BritishBengal]

Most overrated by the organisation-
Stacy Andrews

Most overrated by fans- Brian Leonard

[RoyleRedlegs]

(01-31-2016, 01:20 PM)BritishBengal Wrote: Most overrated by the organisation-
Stacy Andrews

Most overrated by fans- Brian Leonard

I don't think Leonard is overrated.
He was a 3rd down back with a knack for making big plays.

No one wanted him to get 30 carries a game.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-31-2016, 03:26 AM)J24 Wrote: So drafting AJ green was a mistake? Or drafting  Marvin Jones was a mistake? 

No, the Bengals are dumb because they, unlike the rest of the NFL, prefer to draft bigger taller wide outs to such a point that ***height matters more than the ability to run routes, play against press, get separation, or catch the ball. You know, general football skills.***
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Now look at my post, and then look at your reply once more. Did AJ Green have more than just height? Yes, he had football skills. So how did you ever manage to interpret that into "drafting AJ Green was a mistake"? Other than intentionally trolling or just trying to find somewhere you can start an argument, that is.

In your haste to try to turn it around with AJ Green (the only good WR the Bengals have drafted in 14 years), you apparently didn't read my post at all. There's nothing wrong with drafting tall WRs. The problem comes when you get so tunnel sighted that you're drafting WRs *only* because they're tall. I said draft football skills, not just height. Did AJ Green have football skills? Yes? Then I didn't say they shouldn't have drafted him.

When you've drafted 19 WRs in 13 years, and only one of them has over 2,100 career receiving yards? MAYBE you need to broaden your horizons and try to look for more than just height.

I'm not even sure why you're trying to make this an argument point. Is there something wrong with wishing they aimed for football skills ahead of just pure height? Otherwise we could totally just have a WR corps of like.. 5 or 6 Matt Jones and Mario Urrutias and call it a day.

[BengalsRocker]

(01-31-2016, 06:48 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: No, the Bengals are dumb because they, unlike the rest of the NFL, prefer to draft bigger taller wide outs to such a point that ***height matters more than the ability to run routes, play against press, get separation, or catch the ball. You know, general football skills.***
- - - - - - - - - - -


Now look at my post, and then look at your reply once more. Did AJ Green have more than just height? Yes, he had football skills. So how did you ever manage to interpret that into "drafting AJ Green was a mistake"? Other than intentionally trolling or just trying to find somewhere you can start an argument, that is.

In your haste to try to turn it around with AJ Green (the only good WR the Bengals have drafted in 14 years), you apparently didn't read my post at all. There's nothing wrong with drafting tall WRs. The problem comes when you get so tunnel sighted that you're drafting WRs *only* because they're tall. I said draft football skills, not just height. Did AJ Green have football skills? Yes? Then I didn't say they shouldn't have drafted him.

When you've drafted 19 WRs in 13 years, and only one of them has over 2,100 career receiving yards? MAYBE you need to broaden your horizons and try to look for more than just height.

I'm not even sure why you're trying to make this an argument point. Is there something wrong with wishing they aimed for football skills ahead of just pure height? Otherwise we could totally just have a WR corps of like.. 5 or 6 Matt Jones and Mario Urrutias and call it a day.

AJ Green was labeled as "can't miss" pick in the draft.

That's overall.  Not just at WR.

No real way any team could miss in that one.

That one was a no brainer. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-31-2016, 07:39 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: AJ Green was labeled as "can't miss" pick in the draft.

That's overall.  Not just at WR.

No real way any team could miss in that one.

That one was a no brainer. 

Pretty much. Didn't take much thought to land a great WR with that pick... and outside of him, the second most productive Bengal-drafted WR in the Lewis Era is Jerome Simpson with 2,058 career receiving yards.



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Side note?

That first round was amazing early, unless you were reaching for a crappy QB. It was as close to impossible to miss with anyone in the Top half of that draft as you'll ever see in a draft. 12 of the 16 first picks have been Pro Bowlers, 9 have been 1st Team All-Pro. That's even with three teams reaching hard for Locker, Gabbert, and Ponder.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-31-2016, 08:01 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Pretty much. Didn't take much thought to land a great WR with that pick... and outside of him, the second most productive Bengal-drafted WR in the Lewis Era is Jerome Simpson with 2,058 career receiving yards.



- - - - - - -
Side note?

That first round was amazing early, unless you were reaching for a crappy QB. It was as close to impossible to miss with anyone in the Top half of that draft as you'll ever see in a draft. 12 of the 16 first picks have been Pro Bowlers, 9 have been 1st Team All-Pro. That's even with three teams reaching hard for Locker, Gabbert, and Ponder.

Well i saw earlier where you praised Steelers for their draft of Bryant.. but Tomlin has not hit it out of the park either at WR in early rounds ... he has had some bad picks ( Limas Sweed 2nd round, Willie Reid 3rd round) plus he picked Holmes in first round and he under performed for a 1st round pick.  I believe  only Wallace totaled over 4,000 yards outside of Brown, so not like Steelers are knocking down the door of Wr's the last 10 year either.  

Also I don;t see Sanu as over rated.. most other teams he would be getting more throws and catches but the Bengals have a true #1 in Green plus Jones and Eiffert.... so to say he is over rated and hype up Hilton from Indy I don;t see it.   Hilton has played one more year than Sanu and the last two years he has been their number #1 WR and he has only averaged 6 TDs.. Sanu as a 2/3 WR has averaged 4 TDs.  

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-31-2016, 10:00 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well i saw earlier where you praised Steelers for their draft of Bryant.. but Tomlin has not hit it out of the park either at WR in early rounds ... he has had some bad picks ( Limas Sweed 2nd round, Willie Reid 3rd round) plus he picked Holmes in first round and he under performed for a 1st round pick.  I believe  only Wallace totaled over 4,000 yards outside of Brown, so not like Steelers are knocking down the door of Wr's the last 10 year either.  

Also I don;t see Sanu as over rated.. most other teams he would be getting more throws and catches but the Bengals have a true #1 in Green plus Jones and Eiffert.... so to say he is over rated and hype up Hilton from Indy I don;t see it.   Hilton has played one more year than Sanu and the last two years he has been their number #1 WR and he has only averaged 6 TDs.. Sanu as a 2/3 WR has averaged 4 TDs.  

Ugh, now you've made it into a Steelers thing, so I am going to feel hella dirty typing this up... but you're still wrong.

Marvin Lewis: 13 years, 19 WR, 5 with 1,000+ career yards (26.3%), 1 with 3,000+ career yards (5.2%)
Mike Tomlin: 9 years, 9 WR, 5 with 1,000+ career yards (55.5%), 3 with 3,000+ career yards (33.3%)

It's not even close how much better the Steelers have been at drafting WR under Tomlin than the Bengals under Lewis. Also, Santonio Holmes was a 2006 pick, Tomlin took over in 2007, so that was a Cowher pick.

- - - - -

Also, you're seriously trying to argue that Hilton isn't better than Sanu? Hilton hasn't played one more year than Sanu. Both were drafted in 2012, so you're wrong there too.
TY Hilton: 283 / 4,413 / 24
Mo Sanu: 152 / 1,793 / 11

Plus... Sanu has averaged 4 TDs the last 2 years? 0 in 2015, and 5 in 2014.. averages to 4, somehow? It's 2.5.

Your post is filled with all kinds of wrong information and numbers from top to bottom.

[*Synric*]

It's easily Carson Palmer. I liked Palmer but he was a #1 overall heisman trophy pick that only had one good season as a Bengal.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-31-2016, 10:15 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Ugh, now you've made it into a Steelers thing, so I am going to feel hella dirty typing this up... but you're still wrong.

Marvin Lewis: 13 years, 19 WR, 5 with 1,000+ career yards (26.3%), 1 with 3,000+ career yards (5.2%)
Mike Tomlin: 9 years, 9 WR, 5 with 1,000+ career yards (55.5%), 3 with 3,000+ career yards (33.3%)

It's not even close how much better the Steelers have been at drafting WR under Tomlin than the Bengals under Lewis. Also, Santonio Holmes was a 2006 pick, Tomlin took over in 2007, so that was a Cowher pick.

- - - - -

Also, you're seriously trying to argue that Hilton isn't better than Sanu? Hilton hasn't played one more year than Sanu. Both were drafted in 2012, so you're wrong there too.
TY Hilton: 283 / 4,413 / 24
Mo Sanu: 152 / 1,793 / 11

Plus... Sanu has averaged 4 TDs the last 2 years? 0 in 2015, and 5 in 2014.. averages to 4, somehow? It's 2.5.

Your post is filled with all kinds of wrong information and numbers from top to bottom.

I never said Sanu was better than Hilton but you called Sanu overrated and mentioned Hilton in a comparison .. not me... but i don;t see how you can compare the two.. Hilton is a #1 .. Sanu #2/3.  I don't see how Sanu is overrated when you look at this that way.. also you are comparing Hilton 4 year total to Sanu 3 year total... so you are using some misleading stats ...  put Sanu on a pass happy Indy team in place of Hilton and I will stand by his stats would not be that different than Hilton today....

As for Pittsburgh.. I focused on top 3/4 round picks and showed they had some real dudes, i will have to let go Reid , since you are correct he was Cowher draft.. but lets put in Archer in, he was drafted as a WR and did nothing.  The totals for Sweed 2nd round and Archer 3rd round are a combined 92 yards receiving.. hell even Jordan Shipley had 614 yards receiving.   

My main point was that Steelers have not drafted out of this world early in WRs either and I am correct
 that Wallace is only WR outside of Brown to have over 4,000 yards with Tomlin at the helm... 

So back at ya baby.. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-31-2016, 10:56 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I never said Sanu was better than Hilton but you called Sanu overrated and mentioned Hilton in a comparison .. not me... but i don;t see how you can compare the two.. Hilton is a #1 .. Sanu #2/3.  I don't see how Sanu is overrated when you look at this that way.. also you are comparing Hilton 4 year total to Sanu 3 year total... so you are using some misleading stats ...  put Sanu on a pass happy Indy team in place of Hilton and I will stand by his stats would not be that different than Hilton today....

As for Pittsburgh.. I focused on top 3/4 round picks and showed they had some real dudes, i will have to let go Reid , since you are correct he was Cowher draft.. but lets put in Archer in, he was drafted as a WR and did nothing.  The totals for Sweed 2nd round and Archer 3rd round are a combined 92 yards receiving.. hell even Jordan Shipley had 614 yards receiving.   

My main point was that Steelers have not drafted out of this world early in WRs either and I am correct
 that Wallace is only WR outside of Brown to have over 4,000 yards with Tomlin at the helm... 

So back at ya baby.. 

It's actually REALLY easy to compare the two. Hilton is a #1 WR, and Sanu is a borderline-#3-4 WR... and both were taken in the same round. That right there tells you how easy it is to compare. One is good enough to help carry an offense, the other is barely good enough to ride AJ Green's coattails. One is a two time Pro Bowler, the other is a one time NFL Drop Leader.

Once again, Hilton and Sanu have both been around for four years. Why do you persist on saying Sanu has only been in the league for 3? Same draft, same round. That's WHY they were both brought up.

You're actually wrong about Wallace and Brown. You forgot Emmanuel Sanders, who has 4,569 yards.


So.. not back at me at all, really. You just keep spouting off 100% wrong "facts" as your argument. Do a bit of research before trying to make a point, man.

[*Nately120*]

Is it possible to be more overrated than Armon Binns? Or maybe "overrated" isn't the right word so much as "overhyped." It seems like every year we christen someone on our receiving team as being "uncoverable" and Binns seems to have been the guy who had the biggest distance between what we hoped he could do, and what he did.

Special mention of Denarius Moore being some nightmare deep threat for us, too.

[OrlandoBengal]

(01-29-2016, 11:25 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Wow, that's a serious list of WRs who a lot of noisy people absolutely loved, yet didn't do much. I still remember how Binns "played as Calvin Johnson on the scout team and was uncoverable". Lol

Most depressing tidbit about that list though? Bengals value WR height over abilities like catching the ball, or running routes...

In the 2008 draft, they are looking at WR in the 2nd round and they choose 6'2" Jerome Simpson just 3 picks before the Eagles take 5'10" DeSean Jackson.

Fast forward 2 years to the 2010 draft and just 4 picks after Dezmon Briscoe, the Steelers picked Antonio Brown. So SOMEONE who gets paid for a living to do it, knew they wanted a WR in the 6th round, looked at the available players, and said "Hmm, Dezmon Briscoe or Antonio Brown? Lets get this Dezmon Briscoe kid, he's 6'2", perfect size! Brown is only 5'10."

Fast forward 2 years to the 2012 draft, and they were looking in the third round at wide receivers and once again made the exact same decision, taking 6'2" Mohamed Sanu only 9 picks ahead of 5'9" TY Hilton.

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6'2" WR are like catnip to the Bengals. Height > Football Skills almost every time when it comes to that position. The only time they draft under 6' WR is when they're specifically targeting a ST return guy.

Seeing that in print is actually pretty depressing... wow...

[fredtoast]

(01-29-2016, 06:14 PM)McC Wrote: He got credit for coming off the couch and being better than the mess that came before him. 

Fans (including myself) fell in love with Benson when he was pretty much the only bright spot from the '08 team.  We signed him off the street 5 weeks into one of the worst seasons in Bengal history.  We started that seaons 1-11-1.  But over the last three weeks Benson went crazy (463 yards from scrimmage), and we went 3-0.  He was our only glimmer of hope over that long off season.  His 3.5 avg for that year did not look very impressive until you know that our second leading running back that year, Chris Perry, who started 6 games for us that year, averaged 2.6.

He was a workhorse, but nothing special.  Showed some burst on a few long runs early in his career here, but for the most part was nothing but a grinder.

Still has a place in my heart for one of the greatest individual playoff performances by any Bengal ever.  His numbers were impressive (21 carries, 169 yds), but you had to see the way he gained them.  He was busting tackles and flat out trucking defenders.

[fredtoast]

(01-29-2016, 11:25 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: In the 2008 draft, they are looking at WR in the 2nd round and they choose 6'2" Jerome Simpson just 3 picks before the Eagles take 5'10" DeSean Jackson.

And in the 2001 draft the very same Eagles took 5-11 Freddie Mitchell (90 receptions in 4 seasons) 11 picks before the Bengals took 6-1 Chad Johnson.

And Simpson was not that bad of a pick at all if look at the entire league instead of just cherrying picking the one example that fits your argument.  He had more career receptions than two of the WRs taken before him, and is fifth among the 10 WRs taken in the first two rounds that year. 

[fredtoast]

(01-29-2016, 09:50 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: Chris Henry was great for that offense. He was that 2nd deep threat that most teams yearn for. The guy that opened up the middle of the field. The defense always had to stay honest with him and Chad on the field together. So maybe he was overrated in terms of him alone. But make no mistake, h was an intricate part of what made that offense tick.

This.

His numbers were not always that big, but his impact on pous offense was huge when TJ was gone.  You can draw a line through the '09 season when Hnery went down in the eigth game.  Before that our pass offense was close to top ten despite playing several tough defenses.  The second half of the season we had the dead last worst pass offense in the entire league.  We finished that season 3-5 and those three wins were against teams that won a combined 11 games.