Marvin Jones may be gone...

[gobobro]

I don't think Braxton fits the mold of Duke Tobin first rounders. He seems like a developmental pick, and the I don't think the Bengals draft projects before the third round these days.

[OrlandoBengal]

(02-04-2016, 01:47 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Yup. You could easily argue that MLJ is 3rd in the pecking order behind AJ and Eifert. I want to keep him, but not if it means paying him Michael Crabtree money (just signed for 4 years/34 million). It'd be way too much money invested at one position and to be frank, Marvin Jones isn't worth 8.5 per. Let him go somewhere else and flounder as a #1 option. Meanwhile, there's always excellent (and cheap) talent in the draft. Of course, if we lose MLJ I think we have to invest a high pick at WR or sign a FA. Any decent ones available? I think lots of WRs could shine in this offense.

Btw, the reason I bring up Crabtree is that he's basically the 1A option for the Raiders and was paid accordingly. MLJ doesn't play as big a role and thus does not deserve similar money.

Completely agree with this.  Spotract has his estimated value at 4 years, $22 million.  I personally think that is right in line.  If he gets into the $8-9 million range, then I think you have to wish him well and focus on a replacement.  He benefits greatly from lining up across from AJ, has a history of injuries, and I don't think you can have $22 million a year wrapped up in wide receivers.

[yellowxdiscipline]

Let him go to Cleveland where he'll get owned by #1 DB's.

[BengalHawk62]

(02-04-2016, 01:28 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: My question is, isn't Braxton a poor man's Marvin Jones?

MJ is a quality 2nd WR, I think. How much can we improve on with him? He makes so many catches that I think only him and AJ can.

Braxton is a poor man's Mohamed Sanu. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-04-2016, 01:47 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Yup. You could easily argue that MLJ is 3rd in the pecking order behind AJ and Eifert. I want to keep him, but not if it means paying him Michael Crabtree money (just signed for 4 years/34 million). It'd be way too much money invested at one position and to be frank, Marvin Jones isn't worth 8.5 per. Let him go somewhere else and flounder as a #1 option. Meanwhile, there's always excellent (and cheap) talent in the draft. Of course, if we lose MLJ I think we have to invest a high pick at WR or sign a FA. Any decent ones available? I think lots of WRs could shine in this offense.

Btw, the reason I bring up Crabtree is that he's basically the 1A option for the Raiders and was paid accordingly. MLJ doesn't play as big a role and thus does not deserve similar money.

Rishard Matthews from the Dolphins is intriguing with his speed.

[McC]

(02-04-2016, 02:46 PM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: Braxton is a poor man's Mohamed Sanu. 

With a helluva lot more speed.

[OrlandoBengal]

(02-04-2016, 12:50 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Yeah, Housh could have played another 5 years for the Bengals, only by the time he figured out that he made a mistake, the Bengals had already moved on.

Jones doesn't seem to be burning any bridges though and that's good.

He also got $15 million guaranteed from Seattle, more than he had made in his entire career as a Bengal.  Money like that sets your family up for life, it guarantees your future.  I don't blame anyone for cashing in when they can, especially in the NFL.  These guys are always one play away from their career being over... get paid while you can.

[Shake n Blake]

(02-04-2016, 11:48 AM)gobobro Wrote: If he goes, I'd try to poach Travis Benjamin from Cleveland.

That'd be an upgrade, IMO. Outstanding punt returner to boot.

(02-04-2016, 02:46 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Rishard Matthews from the Dolphins is intriguing with his speed.

That'd be a great replacement. He was quietly on pace for 1000 yards before getting hurt last year.

[phil413]

(02-04-2016, 01:47 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Yup. You could easily argue that MLJ is 3rd in the pecking order behind AJ and Eifert. I want to keep him, but not if it means paying him Michael Crabtree money (just signed for 4 years/34 million). It'd be way too much money invested at one position and to be frank, Marvin Jones isn't worth 8.5 per. Let him go somewhere else and flounder as a #1 option. Meanwhile, there's always excellent (and cheap) talent in the draft. Of course, if we lose MLJ I think we have to invest a high pick at WR or sign a FA. Any decent ones available? I think lots of WRs could shine in this offense.

Btw, the reason I bring up Crabtree is that he's basically the 1A option for the Raiders and was paid accordingly. MLJ doesn't play as big a role and thus does not deserve similar money.

Seems like we're on the same page board wise, nice way of wrapping up Marvin's situation.  I think he will get that 7 or 8M/yr based on the thin market, age and experience with Gruden and Hue like another said.  In terms of worth I'm glad you brought up pecking order rather than usage.  Eifert and Gio are dynamite short options, and losing a known deep threat could open them up to finally use a TE up the seem more like we've been screaming for. 



As for replacing him, the deep threat issue is the key.  Even if you draft a rookie, who knows if they'll be ready to make an impact early on, let alone earn Andy's trust.  So they may take one early, but they will still look to bring in a cheap below average vet to be what Denarius Moore was supposed to be.  As for the position, I think they'll let Sanu hit the market and come back with a price.  I think he returns, though they could opt for a Boldin type vet, especially if one is cut and sees Cincy as a contender. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-04-2016, 03:02 PM)McC Wrote: With a helluva lot more speed.

Yeah, Miller is nothing like Mo.

(02-04-2016, 03:10 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: That'd be an upgrade, IMO. Outstanding punt returner to boot.


That'd be a great replacement. He was quietly on pace for 1000 yards before getting hurt last year.

I would trade Travis Benjamin for MLJ. Watch the Browns lose out big on that one and us pay Benjamin cheaper while losing pretty much nothing.

Rishard Matthews impressed me a lot the little i watched him last season. Before getting hurt as you mention. Great speed.

There are lots of options out there if MLJ gets the #1 dough he wants.

(02-04-2016, 03:17 PM)phil413 Wrote: Seems like we're on the same page board wise, nice way of wrapping up Marvin's situation.  I think he will get that 7 or 8M/yr based on the thin market, age and experience with Gruden and Hue like another said.  In terms of worth I'm glad you brought up pecking order rather than usage.  Eifert and Gio are dynamite short options, and losing a known deep threat could open them up to finally use a TE up the seem more like we've been screaming for. 



As for replacing him, the deep threat issue is the key.  Even if you draft a rookie, who knows if they'll be ready to make an impact early on, let alone earn Andy's trust.  So they may take one early, but they will still look to bring in a cheap below average vet to be what Denarius Moore was supposed to be.  As for the position, I think they'll let Sanu hit the market and come back with a price.  I think he returns, though they could opt for a Boldin type vet, especially if one is cut and sees Cincy as a contender. 

A very good post, i completely agree with you Phil.

[GreenCornBengal]

I guess I'm the only one here who can see Marvin Jones as a #1 for a lower tier team...

The guy is great on the perimeter... great on jump balls. He would get A LOT more chances to make plays in the endzone if AJ Green wasn't around... or Tyler Eifert for that matter.

He has put up good numbers in an offense loaded with talent.

Sure you can make the case that he won't be as effective if he is double covered like AJ, but isn't that why you pay guys big money to be a #1 receiver, to draw double coverage?

Marvin Jones is enough of a matchup problem to cause defenses to roll his way if he was the main weapon. I think in an offense as a number one he could do fairly well. I think given a shot he would prove a lot of you wrong. Just my opinion.

[guyofthetiger]

I said in a post after the season was over that Marvin Jones would probably not return as a Bengal. He is an okay receiver, but Detroit and Cleveland will be looking to shore up the WR position. I see him going to one of these teams. Green and Eifert are our direction. I agree with that.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-04-2016, 02:30 PM)gobobro Wrote: I don't think Braxton fits the mold of Duke Tobin first rounders. He seems like a developmental pick, and the I don't think the Bengals draft projects before the third round these days.

Second round DE (Discus End?) Margus Hunt thinks you give the bengals a BIT too much credit there. As does 1st round "Can't backpedal" CB Dre Kirkpatrick, Darqueze "Best Rookie I've Ever Seen (So great he can't get on the field) Dennard... and to top it off, one of the two OT they just drafted, who will be sitting on the bench again.

[CageTheBengal]

(02-04-2016, 05:01 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Second round DE (Discus End?) Margus Hunt thinks you give the bengals a BIT too much credit there. As does 1st round "Can't backpedal" CB Dre Kirkpatrick.

Not sure anyone thought Dre was a project like Hunt or Moch. He had flaws like all players do coming out of college no doubt.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-04-2016, 03:02 PM)McC Wrote: With a helluva lot more speed.

So that'd be more like a rich man's Sanu then, yeah? A Sanu fast enough to get separation?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-04-2016, 05:03 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: Not sure anyone thought Dre was a project like Hunt or Moch. He had flaws like all players do coming out of college no doubt.

Don't think I have ever heard of a 17th overall pick CB not knowing how to backpedal before the Bengals drafted Kirkpatrick. That seems like a pretty important skill for a drafted CB, let alone a drafted CB in the first 20 picks of the first round of the draft. As soon as I saw that quote after he was drafted, I knew it was a project pick. Sure enough, it took 4 years for him to get any significant starting time.

Leon Hall was 2nd team All-Pro by his third year.

[McC]

(02-04-2016, 05:10 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Don't think I have ever heard of a 17th overall pick CB not knowing how to backpedal before the Bengals drafted Kirkpatrick. That seems like a pretty important skill for a drafted CB, let alone a drafted CB in the first 20 picks of the first round of the draft. As soon as I saw that quote after he was drafted, I knew it was a project pick. Sure enough, it took 4 years for him to get any significant starting time.

Leon Hall was 2nd team All-Pro by his third year.

So, when they drafted him, what other options were there?  Seems like none of those first round corners in the draft have amounted to much, if i remember right.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-04-2016, 04:32 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I guess I'm the only one here who can see Marvin Jones as a #1 for a lower tier team...

The guy is great on the perimeter... great on jump balls. He would get A LOT more chances to make plays in the endzone if AJ Green wasn't around... or Tyler Eifert for that matter.

He has put up good numbers in an offense loaded with talent.

Sure you can make the case that he won't be as effective if he is double covered like AJ, but isn't that why you pay guys big money to be a #1 receiver, to draw double coverage?

Marvin Jones is enough of a matchup problem to cause defenses to roll his way if he was the main weapon. I think in an offense as a number one he could do fairly well. I think given a shot he would prove a lot of you wrong. Just my opinion.

I cannot say you are wrong, i always thought MLJ was special but he has yet to be a #1 so this is still assumption.

But he has the skills no question. It is not like he is Housh who was more of a Slot/3rd down option.

MLJ has the speed and ball skills to be a #1. I just doubt we pay him like one and somebody probably will.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-04-2016, 05:13 PM)McC Wrote: So, when they drafted him, what other options were there?  Seems like none of those first round corners in the draft have amounted to much, if i remember right.

Stephon Gilmore hasn't been bad, but seems to be dinged up a lot. Not in the first round, but early second round Janoris Jenkins has been pretty darn good. Bengals were linked to him in a lot of mocks, but didn't want the "taking risky players" thing to be renewed.

[OrlandoBengal]

(02-04-2016, 05:13 PM)McC Wrote: So, when they drafted him, what other options were there?  Seems like none of those first round corners in the draft have amounted to much, if i remember right.

Considering that Kirkpatrick was a complete luxury pick at the time Chandler Jones, Melvin Ingram, and Dont'a Hightower all look like very good options.