Most Overrated Band/Musician

[fredtoast]

(02-05-2016, 05:52 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: When I mean noodling around... I mean playing the same riffs he does in any song.

No matter what the conext.

Frank Zappa felt the same way about him.

See: 'Variations on the secret Carlos Santana chord progression' 

[BengalsRocker]

(02-05-2016, 06:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Frank Zappa felt the same way about him.

See: 'Variations on the secret Carlos Santana chord progression' 

I did.

Look I understand his contribution to mixing latin music with rock.  I even applaud that.

Yet for the love of God.  The guy is playing in a box.  That box being certain chord progressions.

The thing that really stood out for me is when he was on stage with Clapton.  It's almost like they have to cater chords to fit what he's playing.

Yngwie Malmsteen had to always do that even in the poppiest songs he wrote by forcing in classical licks/riffs. 

He can play the blues/jazz/whatever. 

Which I'm sure Carlos can too.

They just choose to stay in that realm.  Even in a casual jam situation.  Which for me tells me they don't like spontaneity.

If you ever "jam" you know when someone has to do the same thing over and over again. 

Real talented at what he does.  Just not very artistic.  You can find that anywhere in the world.

[Tiger Teeth]

Did I mention Bon Jovi?

[BengalsRocker]

(02-05-2016, 01:27 PM)RagnarLothbrok Wrote: KISS - These guys aren't necessarily over rated, per say. No one ever says that they are an amazing band or are one of the best of all times. People just casually like them and I have to imagine they put on quite the live show.

I'm not trying to be nasty here in particular to you...  but are you kidding?

These guys have people who worship the ground they walk on. 

I mean they buy anything from coffins to shit paper with the logo and their faces on them.

Yeah I've seen the show.  In multiple eras at that.  They can hang their hat on that I guess. 

Alice Cooper is more entertaining at that kind of thing, and I wasn't even a fan of his when I saw him.  Enjoyed it more than a KISS show.

There are quite a few bands that put on the show.

The funny thing about KISS is that the most talented guys in the band have been the hired guns. (Vincent/St. James/Kulick)

Eric Carr was a fantastic drummer...  probably a guy who should be on any underrated list.

Hell I used to like KISS when I was a kid.  Then I grew up.  Wes talked about VH's cartoon lyric songs.  Man these guys are a pop up book.

Wanna get creeped out?  Listen to Christine Sixteen.

"I don't usually say things like this to girls your age, but when I saw you

coming out of the school that day, that day I knew, I knew, I've got to have

you, I've got to have you."



She's' been around, but she's young and clean

I've got to have her, can't live without her, whoo no

Christine sixteen, Christine sixteen"

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-05-2016, 09:03 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: I'm not trying to be nasty here in particular to you...  but are you kidding?

These guys have people who worship the ground they walk on. 

I mean they buy anything from coffins to shit paper with the logo and their faces on them.

Yeah I've seen the show.  In multiple eras at that.  They can hang their hat on that I guess. 

Alice Cooper is more entertaining at that kind of thing, and I wasn't even a fan of his when I saw him.  Enjoyed it more than a KISS show.

There are quite a few bands that put on the show.

The funny thing about KISS is that the most talented guys in the band have been the hired guns. (Vincent/St. James/Kulick)

Eric Carr was a fantastic drummer...  probably a guy who should be on any underrated list.

Hell I used to like KISS when I was a kid.  Then I grew up.  Wes talked about VH's cartoon lyric songs.  Man these guys are a pop up book.

Wanna get creeped out?  Listen to Christine Sixteen.

"I don't usually say things like this to girls your age, but when I saw you

coming out of the school that day, that day I knew, I knew, I've got to have

you, I've got to have you."



She's' been around, but she's young and clean

I've got to have her, can't live without her, whoo no

Christine sixteen, Christine sixteen"

Yeah....but New York Groove kicks ass....lol.  I saw the "Reunion Tour".  It was fun....but the real treat was Alice In Chains opening.

[RagnarLothbrok]

I'm apparently a popular person for once. I just don't like the Stones. I'm sorry that I offended you by saying that.

And in terms of KISS, i am completely oblivious to a cult following of fans. I casually like their music, but I had no use about the cult following.

I'm surprised no one has said Insane Clown Posse. I do not,understand why they have a cult following of Juggalos.

[RoyleRedlegs]

The Beatles.

Individually they were better at everything. The sum was crap. Just crap.

[Tiger Teeth]

(02-06-2016, 09:07 PM)RagnarLothbrok Wrote: I'm apparently a popular person for once. I just don't like the Stones. I'm sorry that I offended you by saying that.

And in terms of KISS, i am completely oblivious to a cult following of fans. I casually like their music, but I had no use about the cult following.

I'm surprised no one has said Insane Clown Posse. I do not,understand why they have a cult following of Juggalos.

Huh?  

[Devils Advocate]

Are you guys rating these acts based on musicianship and talent or, what these acts meant at their peak or what?

Because bands like Boston made it pretty big in an era when it was relatively speaking very difficult to land a record deal where there's a thousand acts just like them dreaming of the same thing. So something rates bands like this higher, if it's not their talent. Same thing for Nirvana. I don't particularly care for their music nowadays but man were they a nice relief from the crap we were fed over the air prior to their explosion, which introduced us to bands like Pearl Jam, who in no way possible can be considered over rated by any metric. Aside from PJ, who are very talented, these other acts had something often imitated and rarely duplicated, just ask Gene Simmons.

As far as over rating the Stones and/or The Beatles, PUULEEEEEEEAAASSE
You may not like either of these bands but these two are head and shoulders above any other band ever recorded which may or may include Led Zeppelin, the band I offer as the most over rated. This coming from a die hard fan in my late teens/20's. But, these guys plagiarized many songs including Stairway.











Because of their arrogance regarding the issue of plagiarism, it's difficult to respect them even though they recorded many of their own great songs. It's sorta heartbreaking. 

[Stewy]

Nirvana
Rush
Kiss

[BengalsRocker]

I'm sorry but KISS is the epitome of style over substance.

This is not just opinion.

The fact that they can remain the object of lunatic fans proves my point.

Overrated.  It's a dog and pony show.

[RoyleRedlegs]

What exactly did the Beatles do well as a group?
Be the Backstreet Boys of their era?

They played horribly dull pop songs reviled by old people as "greatness"

After they started taking drugs and split up, they got much better.

[McC]

(02-07-2016, 07:05 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: What exactly did the Beatles do well as a group?
Be the Backstreet Boys of their era?

They played horribly dull pop songs reviled by old people as "greatness"

After they started taking drugs and split up, they got much better.

They were the ones who took the next step in the evolution.  You don't get a proper perspective looking back on them now.  They have to be considered compared to what was out there before they showed up.  And what they led to, how many bands came after them because of them.

Their impact was monumental.

And the only reason they seemed like they got better was because they were building on what they did together.

[Devils Advocate]

(02-07-2016, 07:05 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: What exactly did the Beatles do well as a group?
Be the Backstreet Boys of their era?

They played horribly dull pop songs reviled by old people as "greatness"

After they started taking drugs and split up, they got much better.

Lennon/McCartney are considered one of, if not, the best song writing teams. As a band their sound evolved from beginning to end, something difficult to accomplish ( ask AC/DC ) and maintain their popularity. Boy groups do not even compare and calling them a boy band is insulting.  The Beatles wrote most of their own songs ( of course they covered some ) And played their own instruments of which they were very accomplished at in their own right. It could be argued and was that The Beatles played a large part in helping to reunite Germany And disband the Soviet Union and introducing eastern philosophy to the mainstream West. This band could never be over rated. 

[*Nately120*]

(02-05-2016, 12:17 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: KISS has got to be the most overrated of all time.

They are a circus act and clown show rolled up in one.

Hmm, I'd actually argue that KISS are dismissed by most people as a total joke when they made (possibly) 3 or 4 legit albums in the mid 70s that could stand up to the national average IF you don't point out that it's that clown-looking band behind the music. I'm just saying they weren't an overrated mess of a joke band until after 1976.  The late 70s stuff, the 80s crap, and the fact that there are still pulling the nostalgia stuff to this day are all jokes, though.

Bottom line:  KISS seems to be universally lauded as a 100% crap band, when they're more like 87% crap. 

(02-07-2016, 07:05 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: What exactly did the Beatles do well as a group?
Be the Backstreet Boys of their era?

They played horribly dull pop songs reviled by old people as "greatness" 

After they started taking drugs and split up, they got much better.

The Beatles were better after they split up?  Oy, I love me some Beatles solo stuff but what did they do after that stood up to what they did as a group?  Ringo's disco album?  Paul's nicely sappy stuff?  John's wife screaming into a microphone?  George making some decent stuff?

[*Nately120*]

(02-05-2016, 09:03 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Wanna get creeped out?  Listen to Christine Sixteen.

"I don't usually say things like this to girls your age, but when I saw you

coming out of the school that day, that day I knew, I knew, I've got to have

you, I've got to have you."



She's' been around, but she's young and clean

I've got to have her, can't live without her, whoo no

Christine sixteen, Christine sixteen"

True, but that's on Love Gun...I mean the entire album is pretty much KISS settling into their post-success real album period and embracing the over-the-top image they created.  They made that album, made 4 odd solo albums, and then never recorded as a main unit again.  

[BengalsRocker]

(02-08-2016, 03:05 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Hmm, I'd actually argue that KISS are dismissed by most people as a total joke when they made (possibly) 3 or 4 legit albums in the mid 70s that could stand up to the national average IF you don't point out that it's that clown-looking band behind the music. I'm just saying they weren't an overrated mess of a joke band until after 1976.  The late 70s stuff, the 80s crap, and the fact that there are still pulling the nostalgia stuff to this day are all jokes, though.

Bottom line:  KISS seems to be universally lauded as a 100% crap band, when they're more like 87% crap. 

I get that.  Yet I know some musicians that think they are great.  Hell even famous hard rock/metal musicians give them props.

So I'm gonna say if musicians are thinking/saying that, then there are people who think that too.

Okay they are old now, so that makes wearing the makeup more of a joke.

Just the fact that they can keep marching that shit out on stage with only a handful of decent songs is beyond me.

That is why they are overrated.  Not necessarily for the music but just in general.

[McC]

(02-08-2016, 07:01 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: I get that.  Yet I know some musicians that think they are great.  Hell even famous hard rock/metal musicians give them props.

So I'm gonna say if musicians are thinking/saying that, then there are people who think that too.

Okay they are old now, so that makes wearing the makeup more of a joke.

Just the fact that they can keep marching that shit out on stage with only a handful of decent songs is beyond me.

That is why they are overrated.  Not necessarily for the music but just in general.

Didn't they, somewhere along the line, try the no makeup thing and their fans hated it?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-08-2016, 07:40 PM)McC Wrote: Didn't they, somewhere along the line, try the no makeup thing and their fans hated it?

Yup....around '85, '86 I think....was a big deal on MTV.

[McC]

(02-09-2016, 01:06 AM)Wyche Wrote: Yup....around '85, '86 I think....was a big deal on MTV.

I thought so.  Went over, as they say, like a lead balloon.