Let's talk DT's

[Goalpost]

(02-29-2016, 01:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Mayock claims Adolphus Washington will get a first round grade from some teams.  

From what I have read other people are all over the place on him.  What do you OSU fans think?

He tested average at the combine.  I think he was a second rounder coming in, and stays there as that

[RoyleRedlegs]

(02-29-2016, 01:53 PM)Goalpost Wrote: He tested average at the combine.  I think he was a second rounder coming in, and stays there as that

He's Devon Still. 
Some flashy moments but nothing more. 
But he's an average athlete so it isn't like he has a ton of untapped athletic potential. 

You either wind up with a good player or someone who probably won't see a second contract. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-28-2016, 03:55 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: Last year the top player I wanted for months and months leading up to the draft was Malcolm brown.

This year I have an even bigger crush on Andrew Billings. Dude would be a terrific pick if he falls to 24. That said I won't be nearly as upset if he doesn't because of the insane depth at DT in this draft.

Also (at risk of being labeled an OSU homer) I will say that Adolphus Washington would be a good pickup in th first two rounds and you didn't mention him.

Also I think it was bfine who mocked the Texas DT Ridgeway to us in the 4th, i didn't know much about him but after looking at some tape he could be a steal outside of the first couple rounds.

If we re-sign most of our major FA's I really hope we grab two good DT's in this draft. There are probably 15 DT's that could be really good pickups and last year only 18 were drafted. I'm sure that number will go up this year but some really talented guys should be available in rounds 3,4, or 5. If we don't draft a DT this year I will  

Dude, you said just how i feel. Was for Brown last year and want Billings more than any player this year.

Billings can do it all, like Geno. These two on the same line would be insane.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(02-29-2016, 03:24 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Dude, you said just how i feel. Was for Brown last year and want Billings more than any player this year.

Billings can do it all, like Geno. These two on the same line would be insane.

More appropriate would be, Billings could do it all. 

He's gifted enough to, but he's not much of a pass rusher at all right now other than brute strength. 
That said, if he's there at 24, he should be one of the top choices. Very few should go ahead of him. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-29-2016, 03:29 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: More appropriate would be, Billings could do it all. 

He's gifted enough to, but he's not much of a pass rusher at all right now other than brute strength. 
That said, if he's there at 24, he should be one of the top choices. Very few should go ahead of him. 

Yeah, but how does Geno do it? Brute strength most of the time.

I just mean that Billings is not a one trick pony like Peko. Billings at 24 is my ideal scenario right now.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(02-29-2016, 03:34 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, but how does Geno do it? Brute strength most of the time.

I just mean that Billings is not a one trick pony like Peko. Billings at 24 is my ideal scenario right now.

That's really just a way over simplified view of what Geno does. 
Geno uses his strength but he's also a master of leverage and technique. 
He's underrated as an athlete too. His first step is a cannon ball on Zone runs. The OL rarely has the time to react to him.
And technically right now, I would call Billings a one trick pony until he shows he can actually pass rush with skill. He has the ability to be a lot more. But he isn't yet. 
I think we need to temper these types of expectations that way you don't end up with another Big Daddy situation.

[Mike M (the other one)]

Where's Vernon Butler fitting in your rankings at?
I see where several teams are interested in him as a 1st rounder (Pitt, Denver, Detroit, Arizona).

[RoyleRedlegs]

(02-29-2016, 03:41 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Where's Vernon Butler fitting in your rankings at?
I see where several teams are interested in him as a 1st rounder (Pitt, Denver, Detroit, Arizona).

He's an enigma to me. He has one really good stand out quality. 
But he doesn't always play like a 320 lbs DT should. 

[*bfine32*]

Maliek Collins is someone i haven't been tracking, but he "looks good".

[Bengal Dude]

The one thing I'm hoping for is to see the DT class fall in the draft. Mayock has said that you could find a 1st round talent in 3rd round because of how many great players there are in the draft this year. I can see teams deciding to focus on other positions and wait for a DT in the 2nd and later. I would hope that we would jump on a guy like Billings, Rankins, or Reed if they're available at our pick.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(02-29-2016, 06:05 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: The one thing I'm hoping for is to see the DT class fall in the draft. Mayock has said that you could find a 1st round talent in 3rd round because of how many great players there are in the draft this year. I can see teams deciding to focus on other positions and wait for a DT in the 2nd and later. I would hope that we would jump on a guy like Billings, Rankins, or Reed if they're available at our pick.

I loathe this logic. It's silly to me. DT is a big need. 
It isn't wait and see and need. All the depth means is you should double dip. 

And you aren't getting first round talent, you are getting first round in a bad year talent. 

That's where the difference lies. 

Not aiming this at you BD, just that line of thinking. 
It has to go out the window when it's a top need on the team. 

[NATI BENGALS]

(02-29-2016, 06:05 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: The one thing I'm hoping for is to see the DT class fall in the draft. Mayock has said that you could find a 1st round talent in 3rd round because of how many great players there are in the draft this year. I can see teams deciding to focus on other positions and wait for a DT in the 2nd and later. I would hope that we would jump on a guy like Billings, Rankins, or Reed if they're available at our pick.

Has there ever been any official talk about us coming close to drafting a DT in the first under Marvin? It seems we hear pretty often so and so got picked right before our pick and that is who we had targeted. Like the DT in the 2nd last year. I dont ever remember hearing about how we were close to getting the DT we wanted in the first. Seems like they fall every year too.

Seemed like half the board said we absolutely had to take Malcolm Brown last year if by some miracle he fell to us in the first. Well he did. Then kept on falling. 

I dont think a DT we go get in the first is going to be that much better than one that is available in the 2nd.

[NATI BENGALS]

(02-29-2016, 07:19 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: I loathe this logic. It's silly to me. DT is a big need. 
It isn't wait and see and need. All the depth means is you should double dip. 

And you aren't getting first round talent, you are getting first round in a bad year talent. 

That's where the difference lies. 

Not aiming this at you BD, just that line of thinking. 
It has to go out the window when it's a top need on the team. 

As I was writing my post I was thinking about the double dip. What if the same thing happens that we did last year. Take a DT in 1 then a guy we had graded just a smidge below him is sitting there in the 2nd. 

Could be a Devon Still Brandon Thompson like year. Still was a college stud with some first round grades who slid to the 2nd. Thompson was a projected first rounder really early in the process. He slid all the way to the 3rd.

[*bfine32*]

(02-29-2016, 07:19 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: I loathe this logic. It's silly to me. DT is a big need. 
It isn't wait and see and need. All the depth means is you should double dip. 

And you aren't getting first round talent, you are getting first round in a bad year talent. 

That's where the difference lies. 

Not aiming this at you BD, just that line of thinking. 
It has to go out the window when it's a top need on the team. 

And the logic of taking a player early at a position just because it's a top need, when you can get equal talent later isn't always the answer. In 2010 Brain Price was first round DT talent, but we waited until the 4th to snag one out of Georgia.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(02-29-2016, 07:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And the logic of taking a player early at a position just because it's a top need, when you can get equal talent later isn't always the answer. In 2010 Brain Price was first round DT talent, but we waited until the 4th to snag one out of Georgia.

This is a lazy post. 
You aren't getting equal talent. 
If you were, they'd be in talks for first round picks. 

[RoyleRedlegs]

(02-29-2016, 07:31 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: As I was writing my post I was thinking about the double dip. What if the same thing happens that we did last year. Take a DT in 1 then a guy we had graded just a smidge below him is sitting there in the 2nd. 

Could be a Devon Still Brandon Thompson like year. Still was a college stud with some first round grades who slid to the 2nd. Thompson was a projected first rounder really early in the process. He slid all the way to the 3rd.

I think that's a fine situation if it happens. We need to refill our DL. Clarke and Hunt are lost causes barring a miracle. 
Sims is old and FA.
Gilberry is old and FA.
Peko is just old.
Hardison is a complete wildcard. 
Williams is a wildcard too.
The fact that Hardison saw 0 reps is kind of alarming. 
Williams stood out in Pre-Season. If he has a repeat year, he's on the roster. 


Two DTs would be nice. Let Sims and Thompson walk. 
Let Gilberry walk. 
Hardison, Williams and two rookies. 
One rookie is ideally a tweener. 
One rookie is a more balanced DT. 

[BengalChris]

(02-29-2016, 01:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Mayock claims Adolphus Washington will get a first round grade from some teams.  

From what I have read other people are all over the place on him.  What do you OSU fans think?

Being an OSU graduate myself has no bearing on my views of the player and whether or not they should be a Bengal, unless of course we are talking what to do if Bosa falls to us, then I'd have to say that I'm all in on selecting him.

My take on Adolphus Washington is that he will need other talent on the line to do what he did at Ohio State and since he'd basically play the same position as Atkins (3 technique), I'm not sure he'd be a good fit for the Bengals. Having Joey Bosa there drawing double and triple teams made Washington look better than I think he is.

Besides, I want us to draft someone who is going to be strong at the point of attack and man handle a Center. I.e., Peko's replacement and that isn't Washington.

[*bfine32*]

(02-29-2016, 08:55 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: This is a lazy post. 
You aren't getting equal talent. 
If you were, they'd be in talks for first round picks. 

I don't see how that is lazy or disputes the facts. Before this combine A'Shawn Robinson was considered the best in the draft, now he can probably be had in RD 2. The following DTs have been given 1st Rd talk at one time or the other:

Sheldon Rankins
Andrew Billings
A'Shawn Robinson
Kenny Clark
Adolphus Washington
Jarren Reed
Austin Johnson
Vernon Butler
Robert Nkindieche

You could pretty much throw a blanket over them on a prospect level. A high estimate is 4 DTs go per round. You can get 1st round talent in the 3rd rd. Take a small step down in prospect level and you're still looking at:

Sheldon Day
DJ Reeder
Maliek Collins
Hassan Ridgeway

Unlike the last few years; there is no hands down top prospect. This is the year we can wait. 

[NATI BENGALS]

(02-29-2016, 10:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I don't see how that is lazy or disputes the facts. Before this combine A'Shawn Robinson was considered the best in the draft, now he can probably be had in RD 2. The following DTs have been given 1st Rd talk at one time or the other:

Sheldon Rankins
Andrew Billings
A'Shawn Robinson
Kenny Clark
Adolphus Washington
Jarren Reed
Austin Johnson
Vernon Butler
Robert Nkindieche

You could pretty much throw a blanket over them on a prospect level. A high estimate is 4 DTs go per round. You can get 1st round talent in the 3rd rd. Take a small step down in prospect level and you're still looking at:

Sheldon Day
DJ Reeder
Maliek Collins
Hassan Ridgeway

Unlike the last few years; there is no hands down top prospect. This is the year we can wait. 

Wasnt a fan of A'shawn in the first. I would be all about it if he falls to our 2nd. 

[wolfkaosaun]

(02-29-2016, 10:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I don't see how that is lazy or disputes the facts. Before this combine A'Shawn Robinson was considered the best in the draft, now he can probably be had in RD 2. The following DTs have been given 1st Rd talk at one time or the other:

Sheldon Rankins
Andrew Billings
A'Shawn Robinson
Kenny Clark
Adolphus Washington
Jarren Reed
Austin Johnson
Vernon Butler
Robert Nkindieche

You could pretty much throw a blanket over them on a prospect level. A high estimate is 4 DTs go per round. You can get 1st round talent in the 3rd rd. Take a small step down in prospect level and you're still looking at:

Sheldon Day
DJ Reeder
Maliek Collins
Hassan Ridgeway

Unlike the last few years; there is no hands down top prospect. This is the year we can wait. 

Sheldon Day I haven't seen fall in the 3rd round in any mock. But I'd still much rather have any of the guys named above over the 4 mentioned. And that's if you're lucky they fall.

DT is a need and there's quality players that will be there when we draft. Free agency will determine how much panic goes into it. However, there's going to be a very good DT sitting there at 24.