Let's talk DT's

[TGISunday]

I hear Chris Jones left it all out there...ahem. His measurables were off the charts...

[*bfine32*]

(02-29-2016, 10:57 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Sheldon Day I haven't seen fall in the 3rd round in any mock. But I'd still much rather have any of the guys named above over the 4 mentioned. And that's if you're lucky they fall.

Walters has him going in the 3rd

http://walterfootball.com/draft2016_3.php


DraftTek has him going in the 3rd

http://walterfootball.com/draft2016_3.php


Draft Site has him going in the 4th

http://www.draftsite.com/nfl/mock-draft/2016/round4/

Draft Geek has him going in the 3rd

http://www.draftsite.com/nfl/mock-draft/2016/round4/



Matter of fact: I'm not sure I've seen a mock that has him going before the 3rd. 

[*bfine32*]

(02-29-2016, 11:06 PM)TGISunday Wrote: I hear Chris Jones left it all out there...ahem.  His measurables were off the charts...

Mayock said he was surprised he came out and Eissen said when they fall, they fall hard and long. Luckily for Chris the hard part was wrong. 

[wolfkaosaun]

(02-29-2016, 11:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Walters has him going in the 3rd

http://walterfootball.com/draft2016_3.php


DraftTek has him going in the 3rd

http://walterfootball.com/draft2016_3.php


Draft Site has him going in the 4th

http://www.draftsite.com/nfl/mock-draft/2016/round4/

Draft Geek has him going in the 3rd

http://www.draftsite.com/nfl/mock-draft/2016/round4/



Matter of fact: I'm not sure I've seen a mock that has him going before the 3rd. 

But weird this is, each mock has the Bengals drafting a DT in the 1st or 2nd except for Draft Geek. And they're weird. They have us passing on Corey Coleman and Pharoh Cooper for Leonte Caroo. He's not even good and has a domestic assault for slamming his girlfriend at the time on a concrete surface.

Walter and Charlie: Adolphus Washington, 1st round.
Draft Tek: Maliek Collins, 2nd round
Draft Site: Austin Johnson, 2nd round.

Fact remains: Bengals need a DT in the first 2 rounds.

[*bfine32*]

(02-29-2016, 11:36 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: But weird this is, each mock has the Bengals drafting a DT in the 1st or 2nd except for Draft Geek. And they're weird. They have us passing on Corey Coleman and Pharoh Cooper for Leonte Caroo. He's not even good and has a domestic assault for slamming his girlfriend at the time on a concrete surface.

Walter and Charlie: Adolphus Washington, 1st round.
Draft Tek: Maliek Collins, 2nd round
Draft Site: Austin Johnson, 2nd round.

Fact remains: Bengals need a DT in the first 2 rounds.

...and the fact remains that a talented DT will be available in the 3rd. One of them actually had Kenny Clark available. We can nitpick the various sites all day. We do not need a DT in the first 2 rounds. 

If we lose Sanu and MLJ when do we take a WR?
If we lose Pacman and Leon when do we take a CB?
When do we take an Edge rusher that can pressure the QB?
When do we take an athletic LB?
When do we take a Safety if Reggie and George walk?

[wolfkaosaun]

(02-29-2016, 11:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ...and the fact remains that a talented DT will be available in the 3rd. One of them actually had Kenny Clark available. We can nitpick the various sites all day. We do not need a DT in the first 2 rounds. 

If we lose Sanu and MLJ when do we take a WR?
If we lose Pacman and Leon when do we take a CB?
When do we take an Edge rusher that can pressure the QB?
When do we take an athletic LB?
When do we take a Safety if Reggie and George walk?

And that's why free agency is big.

Sanu and Jones gone? Tyler Boyd is a good fit. Quite a few that could be taken in round 1 or 2.
CB isn't a big need even if both are lost. We still have Dennard, Kirkpatrick, and Shaw. That can wait.
Bengals should have gotten an edge rusher last year. There was plenty of them to choose from and there was depth. Kind of like this year with DTs.
It seems the Bengals are wanting a hybrid LB/S type deal.
They really like Williams, but the safety depth in this draft is low. But there's no one really amazing either. We got Iloka in the 5th round.

The Bengals have no excuse to re-sign at least half of those free agents you mentioned. None.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(02-29-2016, 10:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I don't see how that is lazy or disputes the facts. Before this combine A'Shawn Robinson was considered the best in the draft, now he can probably be had in RD 2. The following DTs have been given 1st Rd talk at one time or the other:

Sheldon Rankins
Andrew Billings
A'Shawn Robinson
Kenny Clark
Adolphus Washington
Jarren Reed
Austin Johnson
Vernon Butler
Robert Nkindieche

You could pretty much throw a blanket over them on a prospect level. A high estimate is 4 DTs go per round. You can get 1st round talent in the 3rd rd. Take a small step down in prospect level and you're still looking at:

Sheldon Day
DJ Reeder
Maliek Collins
Hassan Ridgeway

Unlike the last few years; there is no hands down top prospect. This is the year we can wait. 

Day isn't a true DT. He's a DE/DT. He's a Gilberry player. 

The difference is, every single guy you listed on that top list is a lot better than everyone on the bottom one.

The problem with the "let's wait" theory is, we NEED a defensive tackle. 
We have "waited" on DT for too long. Time to stop waiting.

[NATI BENGALS]

(02-29-2016, 11:27 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Mayock said he was surprised he came out and Eissen said when they fall, they fall hard and long. Luckily for Chris the hard part was wrong. 

Real funny guys. Turf burn on a nut sack is no joking matter.

[NATI BENGALS]

(03-01-2016, 02:19 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Day isn't a true DT. He's a DE/DT. He's a Gilberry player. 

The difference is, every single guy you listed on that top list is a lot better than everyone on the bottom one.

The problem with the "let's wait" theory is, we NEED a defensive tackle. 
We have "waited" on DT for too long. Time to stop waiting.

The problem may be our ability to evaluate DTs. We have used a 2nd 3rd and 4th round pick the last 4 years. 

We got lucky with Atkins and Peko. If we would have known how good they would be we wouldnt have got them where we did. 

With the deep draft class that could drive down the price of free agent DTs. Damon Harrison or Terrance Knighton could be bargains. A proven NFL DT would be nice.

[fredtoast]

If there are really that many "first round" quality DTs they won't all last until the third round. Bengals are not the only team that will take the best player available. If there are that many more good ones available then there will be a lot more DTs taken in the first two rounds.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-29-2016, 03:40 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: That's really just a way over simplified view of what Geno does. 
Geno uses his strength but he's also a master of leverage and technique. 
He's underrated as an athlete too. His first step is a cannon ball on Zone runs. The OL rarely has the time to react to him.
And technically right now, I would call Billings a one trick pony until he shows he can actually pass rush with skill. He has the ability to be a lot more. But he isn't yet. 
I think we need to temper these types of expectations that way you don't end up with another Big Daddy situation.

True, Geno does it in a lot of ways not just brute strength, you are correct.

You could be right about Billings but every player has to improve from college to the NFL to make an impact.

I definately see Billings being able to do just what you say. He has upside and already has the strength...

[*bfine32*]

(03-01-2016, 10:38 AM)fredtoast Wrote: If there are really that many "first round" quality DTs they won't all last until the third round.  Bengals are not the only team that will take the best player available.  If there are that many more good ones available then there will be a lot more DTs taken in the first two rounds.

Only if the "best available" DT fits their scheme. Teams that play 3-4 (about 1/2 the NFL teams) have no use for many of the DTs we would go after.

[*bfine32*]

(03-01-2016, 02:19 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Day isn't a true DT. He's a DE/DT. He's a Gilberry player. 

The difference is, every single guy you listed on that top list is a lot better than everyone on the bottom one.

The problem with the "let's wait" theory is, we NEED a defensive tackle. 
We have "waited" on DT for too long. Time to stop waiting.

We recently took a DT in the 2 and 3 rounds and just took one last year in the 5th.

Our D was about 2 points away from being the top scoring D in all the NFL. If we lose Sanu and/or MLJ we NEED a WR; there's a limited number of those this year. We NEED a CB We NEED a RDE that can get to the QB. We NEED a Center.

I have zero issue with taking a DT in the first and love a few listed; however, if one of the premiere pass rushers, WRs, Cbs, is available. I have no issue with snagging one of them and taking a tier lower prospect and lining him up beside Geno.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(03-01-2016, 02:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: We recently took a DT in the 2 and 3 rounds and just took one last year in the 5th.

Our D was about 2 points away from being the top scoring D in all the NFL. If we lose Sanu and/or MLJ we NEED a WR; there's a limited number of those this year. We NEED a CB We NEED a RDE that can get to the QB. We NEED a Center.

I have zero issue with taking a DT in the first and love a few listed; however, if one of the premiere pass rushers, WRs, Cbs, is available. I have no issue with snagging one of them and taking a tier lower prospect and lining him up beside Geno.

Both those DT's should be off the roster. Gilberry is a FA. Peko is in his 30s. 
Geno is the only viable DT on this roster. We saw what happened this year alone when Geno wasn't on the field. It wasn't good. 


If we lose Sanu, WR still isn't a big need. He'd be the 4th or 5th option on offense regardless. 
If we lose Jones it is a bigger need. 
We don't NEED a CB. We have 3 on roster who look ready to play. Depth is needed but not an immediate player. 

Your excuses for why those are needs but DT isn't somehow is flimsy at best. 

[*bfine32*]

(03-01-2016, 03:18 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Both those DT's should be off the roster. Gilberry is a FA. Peko is in his 30s. 
Geno is the only viable DT on this roster. We saw what happened this year alone when Geno wasn't on the field. It wasn't good. 


If we lose Sanu, WR still isn't a big need. He'd be the 4th or 5th option on offense regardless. 
If we lose Jones it is a bigger need. 
We don't NEED a CB. We have 3 on roster who look ready to play. Depth is needed but not an immediate player. 

Your excuses for why those are needs but DT isn't somehow is flimsy at best. 

Where have I said we don't need a DT?

[RoyleRedlegs]

(03-01-2016, 03:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Where have I said we don't need a DT?

Your entire post was just explaining why DT shouldn't be considered a top need.
You literally just prioritized 4 positions over DT. 

If you are going to delve into your semantics games, I am not playing. 

[*bfine32*]

(03-01-2016, 03:23 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Your entire post was just explaining why DT shouldn't be considered a top need.
You literally just prioritized 4 positions over DT. 

If you are going to delve into your semantics games, I am not playing. 

Nope, just stated this team needs more than a DT; never said one was more important. I would be fine with a DT in the first; however, we cannot ignore better value if it is on the board. Call that semantics if you want, I guess.

[leonardfan40]

(03-01-2016, 03:18 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Both those DT's should be off the roster. Gilberry is a FA. Peko is in his 30s. 
Geno is the only viable DT on this roster. We saw what happened this year alone when Geno wasn't on the field. It wasn't good. 


If we lose Sanu, WR still isn't a big need. He'd be the 4th or 5th option on offense regardless. 
If we lose Jones it is a bigger need. 
We don't NEED a CB. We have 3 on roster who look ready to play. Depth is needed but not an immediate player. 

Your excuses for why those are needs but DT isn't somehow is flimsy at best. 

Slightly off point, but I also think Lewis Harris should be thrown in there with the other 3. I've hated him sticking around so long but last season he took a huge leap. He'll see snaps as our 4-5 corner before any rookie will.

[Bengal Dude]

(02-29-2016, 07:19 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: I loathe this logic. It's silly to me. DT is a big need. 
It isn't wait and see and need. All the depth means is you should double dip. 

And you aren't getting first round talent, you are getting first round in a bad year talent. 

That's where the difference lies. 

Not aiming this at you BD, just that line of thinking. 
It has to go out the window when it's a top need on the team. 

It may not be a popular thought, but some people work like this. Hence why I'm hoping others use this logic on draft day and we get ourselves a damn good DT or two.

(02-29-2016, 07:25 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Has there ever been any official talk about us coming close to drafting a DT in the first under Marvin? It seems we hear pretty often so and so got picked right before our pick and that is who we had targeted. Like the DT in the 2nd last year. I dont ever remember hearing about how we were close to getting the DT we wanted in the first. Seems like they fall every year too.

Seemed like half the board said we absolutely had to take Malcolm Brown last year if by some miracle he fell to us in the first. Well he did. Then kept on falling. 

I dont think a DT we go get in the first is going to be that much better than one that is available in the 2nd.

Usually Hobson talks about who we've come close to drafting after it's all done. The only DT that comes to mind is Sharrif Floyd. I guess he was the backup plan in 2013 if Eifert was gone.

[fredtoast]

(02-29-2016, 07:25 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Has there ever been any official talk about us coming close to drafting a DT in the first under Marvin?

Not that I know of.  But for years there was more screaming from the fans for a DT in the first round than any other position.  Every single year from the time I first started posting on message boards ('05) until Geno arrived it seemed like more people wanted a big giant DT than anything else.

And the only time I have seen all Bengal fans agree on something positive was the few hours that we thought we had Shaun Rogers.