Lapham on WRs

[yellowxdiscipline]

Fear of signing a veteran who could help this team because of losing a comp pick is lunacy. You still get 7 god damned picks to find that replacement.

[fredtoast]

(03-12-2016, 04:33 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Fear of signing a veteran who could help this team because of losing a comp pick is lunacy. You still get 7 god damned picks to find that replacement.

1.  It is not lunacy to get more draft picks.  Smart NFL teams realize this.

2.  the point is we can sign a veteran just as good and still get an extra draft pick.  Since we were not going to signb a top dollar free agent anyway it doesn't matter.  when you get to the bottom of the list there is not a lot of difference between the guys who were released and the guys who played out their contracts.

[fredtoast]

(03-12-2016, 02:19 PM)Stormborn Wrote: Outside of signing veteran role players to 1-2 year deals... what "risks" do we take exactly?

We just gave a 32 year old free agent CB a $20 million deal.

Isn't that exactly the type of risk you are talking about?

[Beaker]

(03-12-2016, 04:33 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Fear of signing a veteran who could help this team because of losing a comp pick is lunacy. You still get 7 god damned picks to find that replacement.

Marvin Jones was the best FA WR on the market. Anyone you sign will be a downgrade. We have enough veteran leadership in our locker room already. I would much rather have the extra picks than signing someone just to sign someone.

[Bengalbug]

(03-13-2016, 01:16 PM)Beaker Wrote: Marvin Jones was the best FA WR on the market. Anyone you sign will be a downgrade. We have enough veteran leadership in our locker room already. I would much rather have the extra picks than signing someone just to sign someone.

Marvin jones has the most potential on the open market.  He was not necessarily the best.  He'll Reuben randle had similar stats
57
797
14.0
8


Boldin produced the same numbers as jones last year with gabbert & kaep

Mike Wallace prior to last year was a stud. He wasn't worth the 12,000,000 per year but he was putting up 60/900/7. Great numbers for a number 2

[phil413]

(03-12-2016, 04:33 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Fear of signing a veteran who could help this team because of losing a comp pick is lunacy. You still get 7 god damned picks to find that replacement.

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-List-of-players-who-have-been-CUT

Mike Wallace - Vikings

Brandon LaFell - Patriots
Roddy White - Falcons
Jeremy Kerley - Jets
Damond Powell - Cardinals
Andre Johnson - Colts
Greg Jennings - Dolphins
Marques Colston - Saints

Shake N Blake posted this list in another thread.  You need to chill and consider that the list of cut vets are piling up, so even if they stick only to that market there are a lot of options.  All you want is someone to help, that's easily done.  Look for a few of these names to sign for money that Cincy wasn't going to sign a UFA (pretend the comp pick system doesn't exist) anyway.  They're waiting for the market to level out where they can sign one of them as this veteran who can help the team, but that knows their role.  They understand they're taking a cheap deal to contribute, not be guaranteed to start when Cincy takes a WR early in the draft.  Worst case they end up with a Jennings or White for a season to give what they have left and help the young WR's along. 

[Shake n Blake]

(03-13-2016, 01:16 PM)Beaker Wrote: Marvin Jones was the best FA WR on the market. Anyone you sign will be a downgrade. We have enough veteran leadership in our locker room already. I would much rather have the extra picks than signing someone just to sign someone.

There are receivers such as Mike Wallace and Brandon LaFell who are similar in talent, cheaper, and wouldn't cost us a compensatory pick.

It isn't so much about "veteran leadership" as it is about having a competent WR who doesn't have to learn the in's and out's of playing the position.

The Bengals have had very little success with rookie WR's outside of AJ Green.

[reuben.ahmed]

Whoever we get, I hope, the intention is to win now and not to groom. Andy and AJ are in their prime.

[Stormborn]

(03-13-2016, 10:33 AM)fredtoast Wrote: We just gave a 32 year old free agent CB a $20 million deal.

Isn't that exactly the type of risk you are talking about?

Down the rabbit hole I go.

Only fredtoast thinks retaining proven players is considered "risky".

[SunsetBengal]

(03-12-2016, 10:17 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: ....Also, that aside, it took Sanu 3 years to be helpful, and it took 2 years for Jones. Iloka took 2 years to be helpful, 3 to be good. Williams is only just now being truly helpful in his 4th year.

Not sure which team that you have been watching, but I see it a bit differently.  Sanu was a contributor from day 1, as Jay Gruden integrated Sanu's many talents into plays that contribute to the team.  Weather it be simply catching the ball, or throwing TDs, or running reverses or even taking snaps as a Wildcat QB, Sanu made his contributions from his rookie year on.  The only knock  that I have on him is that he got a case of the drops, when he was thrust into the WR1 role, when AJ and MLJ were both injured in 2014.


As for MLJ, how can you say that it took two years for him to be helpful?  As a rookie, he had 10 TDs.  The man has blazing speed, can take the top off of a defense.  He was out his second year.  Not his fault that he was used as a decoy for most of his time here.

Shawn Williams, on the other hand, you may have a point with.  I had high expectations when we took him.  He has been slow to develop, but isn't that the Mantra of this team?  Draft and develop, they'll all be great players if not forced into service sooner than necessary.

[phil413]

Another thing to keep in mind is a trade is another option. Someone mentioned Justin Hunter before, he falls in line with the fallen high pick that could be had for a very late pick (Nelson, Mays, ect..) So, if you somehow think that ALL the descent WR's will be picked over before Cincy can get one to showcase themselves or want to win then remember they could give up a 6th or 7th for one. They'd be be farther along in the grooming process than a rookie and likely not have a base salary worth much. That fits into their budget well and you're not out much.

[Atomic Orange]

Tired of reading MLJ had 10 TD's in his rookie year because it's kinda misleading..like Hill this past season. I didn't have the heart to tell the Lions fans this but let's not forget that 5 of those came in 1 really good game.

[SunsetBengal]

(03-13-2016, 05:05 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: Tired of reading MLJ had 10 TD's in his rookie year because it's kinda misleading..like Hill this past season. I didn't have the heart to tell the Lions fans this but let's not forget that 5 of those came in 1 really good game.

Dude, that is sour grapes.  I'll be missing MLJ on this team.  He can run fast, and knows how to catch the ball.  It is just sad that he was underused on this team.

[Mint Berry Crunch]

(03-13-2016, 05:05 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: Tired of reading MLJ had 10 TD's in his rookie year because it's kinda misleading..like Hill this past season. I didn't have the heart to tell the Lions fans this but let's not forget that 5 of those came in 1 really good game.

It's not really misleading, but outright wrong. He had 201 yards and 1 td his rookie year, but yeah half of that 10 came against the jets in a blowout. 

[Shake n Blake]

(03-13-2016, 04:50 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Not sure which team that you have been watching, but I see it a bit differently.  Sanu was a contributor from day 1, as Jay Gruden integrated Sanu's many talents into plays that contribute to the team.  Weather it be simply catching the ball, or throwing TDs, or running reverses or even taking snaps as a Wildcat QB, Sanu made his contributions from his rookie year on.  The only knock  that I have on him is that he got a case of the drops, when he was thrust into the WR1 role, when AJ and MLJ were both injured in 2014.


As for MLJ, how can you say that it took two years for him to be helpful?  As a rookie, he had 10 TDs.  The man has blazing speed, can take the top off of a defense.  He was out his second year.  Not his fault that he was used as a decoy for most of his time here.

Shawn Williams, on the other hand, you may have a point with.  I had high expectations when we took him.  He has been slow to develop, but isn't that the Mantra of this team?  Draft and develop, they'll all be great players if not forced into service sooner than necessary.

You're one of my favorite posters, Sunset, but I strongly disagree here. First off, Marv Jones did not catch 10 TDs in his rookie season...that was actually his 2nd season. 

In 2012 - Jones' and Sanu's rookie season - they combined for 34 catches, 355 yards and 5 TDs. They were not effective as receivers and Binns (who was terrible) had to start 5 games because they weren't ready to see the field.

Secondly, Sanu's other contributions as a rookie (5 carries for 15 yards and 1 TD pass) weren't enough to offset his lack as a WR. I mean, ultimately that is his position and that's what we needed him for.  Drafting a WR is fine for the long haul, but rookie WRs rarely contribute heavily, so it'd be nice to see a veteran hold it down for a year until that young player is ready to handle the position.

[Bengalbug]

(03-13-2016, 05:23 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: You're one of my favorite posters, Sunset, but I strongly disagree here. First off, Marv Jones did not catch 10 TDs in his rookie season...that was actually his 2nd season. 

In 2012 - Jones' and Sanu's rookie season - they combined for 34 catches, 355 yards and 5 TDs. They were not effective as receivers and Binns (who was terrible) had to start 5 games because they weren't ready to see the field.

Secondly, Sanu's other contributions as a rookie (5 carries for 15 yards and 1 TD pass) weren't enough to offset his lack as a WR. I mean, ultimately that is his position and that's what we needed him for.  Drafting a WR is fine for the long haul, but rookie WRs rarely contribute heavily, so it'd be nice to see a veteran hold it down for a year until that young player is ready to handle the position.

100% agree not a hard concept to understand

[Derrick]

(03-09-2016, 09:12 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You can only have up to 4 picks, and there's only 32 picks total given each year, so you have to go against the other 31 teams to even get that 4.

That said, why are people in love with compensatory picks? It doesn't help you at ALL this year. So what if they get an extra 4th rounder in 2017 if it means having a shit WR corps in 2016?

All that aside? The Bengals, for all their love of compensatory picks, suck with them something fierce. Here's a list of EVERY compensatory pick the Benglas have ever made under Lewis....

Elton Patterson
Landon Johnson (3rd Round)
Nedu Ndukwe
Andre Caldwell (3rd Round)
Matt Sherry
Angelo Craig
Mario Urrutia
Chase Coffman (3rd Round)
Bernard Scott
Clinton McDonald
Freddie Brown
Brandon Ghee (3rd Round)
Roderick Muckleroy
Jay Finley
Reid Fragel
TJ Johnson
Marquis Flowers
Lavelle Westbrooks
PJ Dawson (3rd Round)
Marcus Hardison


That is what a decade and a half of ignoring free agency gets you in return. That and no playoff wins. No thank you, how about they go and actually try to fix some things instead? Rishard Matthews and Reuben Randle are both still out there, as is Anquan Boldin.

GAWD! That is one scary list. Marvy must be in charge of selecting the comp picks.

[yellowxdiscipline]

Losing an extra 6th round pick at best and going into the season worse off then we could be at a position isn't worth the unknown of an extra pick in my eyes.

[fredtoast]

(03-13-2016, 05:23 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: but rookie WRs rarely contribute heavily, 

In the last 5 years there have been 14 rookie WRs who had at least 800 receiving yards.  Six of them had over 1000.  To some people that sounds like a lot.  But that is fewer than 3 per year for 32 teams.

Interesting fact.  Nine of the 14 were first round picks, and all were selected in the first three rounds.  So if you wait past the first round your chances of finding a WR who will contribute as a rookie get pretty thin.

[fredtoast]

(03-13-2016, 08:43 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Losing an extra 6th round pick at best and going into the season worse off then we could be at a position isn't worth the unknown of an extra pick in my eyes.

Except that even if there was no such thing as compensatory picks we still would not sign anything more than a cheap lower tier free agent at WR.

So since we are going to sign that type of player anyway we might as well sign a player who has been released.  It is just the smart thing to do.  If I thought the Bengals would go out and spend $3+ million a year on a free agent except for the compensatory pick then I would be complaining like you.  But I don't think the pick is the reason we will just sign a cheap WR.