Marvin: McCarron won't be traded

[jj22]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/03/21/marvin-lewis-bengals-wont-trade-a-j-mccarron/

Shame. His value will never be higher. Maybe he's shooting it down to get a better offer. Either way I would have been calling Denver, NYJ's, 9ers, etc. But that's just me.

[CageTheBengal]

(03-21-2016, 05:58 PM)jj22 Wrote: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/03/21/marvin-lewis-bengals-wont-trade-a-j-mccarron/

Shame. His value will never be higher. Maybe he's shooting it down to get a better offer. Either way I would have been calling Denver, NYJ's, 9ers, etc. But that's just me.

Agreed we should trade him.

[Shake n Blake]

I look at it like this. If Dalton goes down, it's going to be significant drop off no matter who it is. McCarron managed to beat 2 terrible teams (Balt & SF) and couldn't win the big games (Denver and Pitt).

I'd rather take the draft pick than rent that for 2 more years. We could draft or sign a decent backup and I think our coaches did a good job of "managing" McCarron, so I'm confident they could do the same with someone else. It's not likely that Dalton will miss time anyway. That play was a major fluke.

[*pally*]

(03-21-2016, 06:29 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I look at it like this. If Dalton goes down, it's going to be significant drop off no matter who it is. McCarron managed to beat 2 terrible teams (Balt & SF) and couldn't win the big games (Denver and Pitt).

I'd rather take the draft pick than rent that for 2 more years. We could draft or sign a decent backup and I think our coaches did a good job of "managing" McCarron, so I'm confident they could do the same with someone else. It's not likely that Dalton will miss time anyway. That play was a major fluke.

We could draft or sign a decent backup....name some names.  If they were decent, they would already have a job.  And this year's draft is rather thin on NFL caliber quarterbacks.  A bird in hand is worth more than 2 in the bush.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-21-2016, 06:34 PM)pally Wrote: We could draft or sign a decent backup....name some names.  If they were decent, they would already have a job.  And this year's draft is rather thin on NFL caliber quarterbacks.  A bird in hand is worth more than 2 in the bush.

Yates, Flynn and Vick are decent backup options that are available and no matter how thin people say a draft class is, there always seems to be some decent options available.

[*Nately120*]

(03-21-2016, 06:34 PM)pally Wrote: We could draft or sign a decent backup....name some names.  If they were decent, they would already have a job.  And this year's draft is rather thin on NFL caliber quarterbacks.  A bird in hand is worth more than 2 in the bush.

This can cut both ways.  We could say the bird in the hand could be the non-QB starter we could get for McCarron and the bush could be McCarron coming in and performing well IF Dalton gets injured.

[BengalChris]

I think you guys are overvaluing AJM on the market. Denver was only willing to offer a 4th round pick for Kaepernick. In fact, no one is really offering much for him as he's still with the 49ers. The rumors that the Browns offered us a 3rd round pick for AJM may not have been true at all.

I don't see someone like Vick being any better than AJM at this point in his career.

Yates is someone I could get behind though. If I remember right the Bengals looked at him in the draft and may have taken him later in 2011 if Dalton or Kaepernick were not available to them in the second round.


Also, I think you guys are being a little hard on AJM. Yes, there was some deer in the headlights action, but that's to be expected. We scored more against SF's defense in SF than any other team in the league. He also played better against Denver's defense than some other notable QBs. When Denver played him straight up in man-to-man, he ate them up. Then they ran a rather complex zone system at him and both Brady and Newton looked pretty bad against that same system.

[RunKijanaRun]

If offered a 2nd rounder or better, you have to take that.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-21-2016, 09:21 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I think you guys are overvaluing AJM on the market. Denver was only willing to offer a 4th round pick for Kaepernick. In fact, no one is really offering much for him as he's still with the 49ers. The rumors that the Browns offered us a 3rd round pick for AJM may not have been true at all.

I don't see someone like Vick being any better than AJM at this point in his career.

Yates is someone I could get behind though. If I remember right the Bengals looked at him in the draft and may have taken him later in 2011 if Dalton or Kaepernick were not available to them in the second round.


Also, I think you guys are being a little hard on AJM. Yes, there was some deer in the headlights action, but that's to be expected. We scored more against SF's defense in SF than any other team in the league. He also played better against Denver's defense than some other notable QBs. When Denver played him straight up in man-to-man, he ate them up. Then they ran a rather complex zone system at him and both Brady and Newton looked pretty bad against that same system.

You're probably right about the market. Kaep's market was an eye-opener, and I honestly think Kaep would have more interest than Mac. I don't think Vick, Yates or Flynn would be better than Mac, I just think they could be decent options and perform at a similar level if managed properly. 

I'm really not trying to roast McCarron. I think he had some good moments, I just don't see the future star that some are making him out to be. He looked like a perfect backup. One I would love to have around for 10 years. Unfortunately I think he'll try to find a better situation for himself as soon as his contract is up and that's why I'm ok with trading him for the right price. The "right price" to me would be a 3rd or higher, but I don't think that's in the cards, so I can see why Marv is saying they won't trade him. It makes more sense to keep him unless you get a solid pick.

Btw, it's funny how some seem to think McCarron is as good or better than Dalton, yet I seriously doubt we could even get a 3rd rounder for him. Dalton would most likely command multiple 1st round picks.

[Ravage]

Kaepernick's trade value takes a hit due to the cap hit his contract brings with him. McCarron carries a 5th round cap hit for this and next season. BIG difference there.

I'm not saying they should trade McCarron, but the contract/cap hit make a difference in what you get back. If Kaepernick was playing at an All-Pro level the cap hit wouldn't matter as much (if at all), but he got benched for Blaine F'n Gabbert last year.

[yellowxdiscipline]

I hope this is just smoke and mirrors because it would be really stupid to not entertain anything above a 3rd round pick for AJ.

[Bengalbug]

(03-22-2016, 09:46 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: I hope this is just smoke and mirrors because it would be really stupid to not entertain anything above a 3rd round pick for AJ.

I doubt it, you need two capable qbs in this league.  

Of course you don't hope for injury, but even if they don't trade him and he makes the most out of pre season and if we can get some 4th quarter action the bengals would probably get a 3rd-4th for him anyway from comp pick.  Or you wait until you get at least a second.  Otherwise why? Downgrade your backup qb

[ItsOdellThurman]

The goal is the Super Bowl. The odds of A.J. McCarron taking over after an injury and winning a title is very low. The difference between our title chances with McCarron and no title at all is so miniscule, the benefit of adding an additional first or second round pick is greater. Hence, you listen to trade offers.

This is the NFL. It's the most luck-dependent league in all major sports.

Normally, I agree with many of the Bengals decisions regarding player value and approach to acquiring draft picks, but they are crazy to value McCarron this high and be so closed-minded on dealing him.

[XenoMorph]

(03-22-2016, 10:30 AM)ItsOdellThurman Wrote: The goal is the Super Bowl. The odds of A.J. McCarron taking over after an injury and winning a title is very low. The difference between our title chances with McCarron and no title at all is so miniscule, the benefit of adding an additional first or second round pick is greater. Hence, you listen to trade offers.

This is the NFL. It's the most luck-dependent league in all major sports.

Normally, I agree with many of the Bengals decisions regarding player value and approach to acquiring draft picks, but they are crazy to value McCarron this high and be so closed-minded on dealing him.

The odds of mccarron being able to fill in a few reg season games if dalton gets a minor injury and helping the team win are better than someone new off the street or straight out of college.

Backups at every position are important.

[yellowxdiscipline]

(03-22-2016, 10:16 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: I doubt it, you need two capable qbs in this league.  

Of course you don't hope for injury, but even if they don't trade him and he makes the most out of pre season and if we can get some 4th quarter action the bengals would probably get a 3rd-4th for him anyway from comp pick.  Or you wait until you get at least a second.  Otherwise why? Downgrade your backup qb

When AJ's rookie deal is up there will be teams out there that will give him strong consideration for a starting job. His value is high right now, and we can get the most out of him rather then the possible 6th round comp pick in 2019. AJ is expendable, we can trade him and sign/draft another replacement easily.

Too balk at any offers of a 3rd round or higher for AJ would be a bad move. Unless this team has somehow lost its unwavering faith in Andy.

[ItsOdellThurman]

(03-22-2016, 10:33 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: The odds of mccarron being able to fill in a few reg season games if dalton gets a minor injury and helping the team win are better than someone new off the street or straight out of college.

Backups at every position are important.

Not when there are capable ones sitting in free agency.  PRICE is the big thing.  Hell, you could sign a starting caliber QB as a backup if you pay him (and the Bengals have the cap room).  You could sign someone like Brian Hoyer as a backup and get a 1st rounder for McCarron.

[Benton]

(03-22-2016, 12:09 AM)Ravage Wrote: Kaepernick's trade value takes a hit due to the cap hit his contract brings with him. McCarron carries a 5th round cap hit for this and next season. BIG difference there.

 

Ding ding ding!

Cap is a big part of it.

Are there guys who would be better backups than McCarron? I dunno, maybe. He did ok playing with a couple wins and we ended up four points shy of beating the eventual Super Bowl champs in the battle of the backups with a lot on the line. He did as good as Osweiler (who just got a huge opportunity) for a half, and was shut down in the second (which isn't uncommon for us as we struggle a lot in the second half of big games).

But even if there is someone better, there's nobody cheaper. We've got a guy that's proven he can start, proven he can play in big games (come on, 20-17 against the champs ain't bad) and we've got him for almost nothing. That's a lot better than paying Vick $1 million to scramble out of the pocket and throw the ball away.

[Benton]

(03-22-2016, 10:30 AM)ItsOdellThurman Wrote: The goal is the Super Bowl.  The odds of A.J. McCarron taking over after an injury and winning a title is very low.  

If there was only one game, I'd see your point. But why are we limiting this to a one and done scenario?

Dalton went down last year. We went 2-2 (and almost went 3-1 with a very close game against the SB champs). Those two wins could have been the difference in getting into the playoffs and not. Winning one or two games with a backup can be huge during a three or four game stretch while your starter is out.

If Dalton gets carted off, I don't want to turn my TV or leave the stadium because I know the season's done if he's out for a couple games.

[XenoMorph]

(03-22-2016, 12:27 PM)ItsOdellThurman Wrote: Not when there are capable ones sitting in free agency.  PRICE is the big thing.  Hell, you could sign a starting caliber QB as a backup if you pay him (and the Bengals have the cap room).  You could sign someone like Brian Hoyer as a backup and get a 1st rounder for McCarron.

there is not 32 starting caliber QBs in the league...

Show me 1 any article where someteam is dumb enough to offer us a 1st rounder for mccarron?

Im sure if that was the offer he would be gone.

[ItsOdellThurman]

(03-22-2016, 01:24 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: there is not 32 starting caliber QBs in the league...

Show me 1 any article where someteam is dumb enough to offer us a 1st rounder for mccarron?

Im sure if that was the offer he would be gone.

..and that's EXACTLY why I'm saying it's absolutely stupid to publicly say "he's not being traded.'  I never said trade him, but you don't just come out and say it.