(03-26-2016, 11:49 AM)Night Wrote: I am going to vote Green with the assumed consistency that he has provided since arriving. Chad was dominate for a long time and I loved how entertaining he was and helped bring visibility to the Bengals at that time. Dalton's deep ball progressed extremely well last season, which will help with Greens numbers, yet if Palmer was throwing to Green, he would have lead the league for a few seasons at this point I believe
While I understand this point... I just don't think it's fair.
Dalton's skill has progressed. Palmer's physical abilities declined.
Who is to say that Chad couldn't have had better numbers with Dalton? Same as what you are saying with Green and Palmer.
I'm not pointing this statement to you specifically. "Some people act as if Dalton can't throw a long pass and only Palmer could."
While Palmer certainly has an arm. There is no denying that. His accuracy waned over the years.
(03-26-2016, 11:49 AM)Night Wrote: I am going to vote Green with the assumed consistency that he has provided since arriving. Chad was dominate for a long time and I loved how entertaining he was and helped bring visibility to the Bengals at that time. Dalton's deep ball progressed extremely well last season, which will help with Greens numbers, yet if Palmer was throwing to Green, he would have lead the league for a few seasons at this point I believe
Idk. Guys like Simpson and Gresham looked a lot better with Dalton than they did with Palmer.
Like Jay Gruden just said, "Andy will find the open guy and make someone else a few million". I don't think Dalton hinders our receivers, it's more likely the opposite.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
(03-26-2016, 12:17 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Green has height and weight to his advantage.
His overall stats may be better when all is said and done.
I would like to mention that TJ was much better(consistent)than Sanu and MLJ.
The equalizer would be Eifert(even Gresh)demanding the defenses attention more than any TE that played in Chad's era.
Even if he brought it on himself Chad had a much larger target on his back than the quite humble AJ Green.
He basically called out DBs and whole defenses to stop him.
I know some may think that these guys are professional and that has no bearing.
I dunno. Some guys don't like to be taunted no matter what level of play.
Whaaaat? You're discounting the great receiving threat of Reggie Kelly? Not to mention the always excellent additional threats of Daniel Coats and Chase Coffman.
(03-26-2016, 12:48 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Whaaaat? You're discounting the great receiving threat of Reggie Kelly? Not to mention the always excellent additional threats of Daniel Coats and Chase Coffman.
Poor Reggie, forgot about him till I saw this article about hard knocks and his injury.
(03-25-2016, 11:14 AM)fredtoast Wrote: That '05 team was not near as good as the '15 team. They were 3-4 against teams that were .500 or better and the defense was 22nd in points allowed. The offense was good, but not unstoppable (4th in points scored).
The '15 team was 4-4 against teams that finished .500 or better with the #2 scoring defense and the #7 scoring offense.
Agreed, the '05 team was scary with that offense but the '15 team was better with each teams healthy QB. I love to think about that '05 team and what if as much as the next guy but I'd take '15 team in a head to head
(03-27-2016, 03:38 AM)J24 Wrote: AJ for me the guy has HOF ability. He will eventually break all of Chad records its only a matter of time.
He needs another 351 catches, 4888 yards and 22 TDs, so it's going to take 4 more seasons - at least - to break all of those numbers, and that's if Green can maintain pace and completely avoid injuries. If he has injuries or falls off, you're talking 5-6 more seasons to move past Chad's numbers.
Green turns 28 in July, so he'd be 32 to maybe 34 years old before he beats all of Chad's numbers. So I don't think it's as much of a given as some think. He'll probably do it as long as he stays healthy, productive and interested though.
Honestly, I think the fact that even AJ could take so long to snap Chad's numbers should make us all have more respect for Chad. What an amazing career he had. His career numbers are right there with Megatron's.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
Chad was great but Isaac Curtis was Jerry Rice before Jerry Rice. Chad was a crisp route runner with great sideline toes and had amazing will and he did lead the AFC in receiving for multiple years. Maybe his antics turned me off but there is no denying he was a great receiver.
I just believe AJ can be better with his size, speed and ability to go up for the ball. The way AJ just snatches the ball out of the air on post routes always impresses me. Such catching range and is deceptively fast with his long strides and he is a lot tougher than he looks as well.
The thing i always had against AJ was his inability to show up in clutch situations just like Chad, but last year AJ shown up in the Ravens game and in the Playoffs right when we needed him to.
Housh was clutch, Chad wasn't, never was. That always sticks in my mind when thinking of Chad Johnson.
(03-26-2016, 12:46 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Idk. Guys like Simpson and Gresham looked a lot better with Dalton than they did with Palmer.
Like Jay Gruden just said, "Andy will find the open guy and make someone else a few million". I don't think Dalton hinders our receivers, it's more likely the opposite.
Like Jay Gruden said, Andy will find the open guy, these are usually 5-15 yds down the field? I am refering more to throwing the ball 50 plus yards in the air like Palmer could do in his prime. I can recall several times Green had 5 yards on his defender and had to wait for the ball from Dalton leading to either an incomplete pass or catch with minimal YAC when they could have been 60 plus yd TD passes. These would have inflated Greens numbers to the point of top 5 WR statistically.
When it's all said and done, Andy Dalton will accomplish as much in his career as Carson Palmer. In some ways, he already has. Just because Palmer's style is better-suited for a big play doesn't mean much.
(03-28-2016, 04:52 PM)Night Wrote: Like Jay Gruden said, Andy will find the open guy, these are usually 5-15 yds down the field? I am refering more to throwing the ball 50 plus yards in the air like Palmer could do in his prime. I can recall several times Green had 5 yards on his defender and had to wait for the ball from Dalton leading to either an incomplete pass or catch with minimal YAC when they could have been 60 plus yd TD passes. These would have inflated Greens numbers to the point of top 5 WR statistically.
Palmer missed plenty of deep passes.
In fact Dalton's 12.7 yards per completions this year is greater than Palmers best season with the Bengals (12.5 in '06)
(03-25-2016, 11:14 AM)fredtoast Wrote: That '05 team was not near as good as the '15 team. They were 3-4 against teams that were .500 or better and the defense was 22nd in points allowed. The offense was good, but not unstoppable (4th in points scored).
The '15 team was 4-4 against teams that finished .500 or better with the #2 scoring defense and the #7 scoring offense.
Note i said 2005 rules. Now whether you believe the game we have today is better or worse than the game in 2005 is personal opinion and from my standpoint (opinion) it is worse. The NFL was lousy last year on the whole, the worst i have ever seen it. The kids today would get killed by those old players/rules. See my sig for a prime example. That guy or "old school" type of player wouldn't have been suspended for 3 games in 2005 for that hit. Ray Lewis proves that. 2005 NFL> 2015 NFL and it isn't even close.
(03-28-2016, 04:52 PM)Night Wrote: Like Jay Gruden said, Andy will find the open guy, these are usually 5-15 yds down the field? I am refering more to throwing the ball 50 plus yards in the air like Palmer could do in his prime. I can recall several times Green had 5 yards on his defender and had to wait for the ball from Dalton leading to either an incomplete pass or catch with minimal YAC when they could have been 60 plus yd TD passes. These would have inflated Greens numbers to the point of top 5 WR statistically.
I honestly don't feel like digging for deep-ball stats, but I've been a part of enough deep ball discussions on these boards to know that Palmer's deep ball stats haven't been all that great through the years. Palmer might have a strong arm and throw a prettier spiral than most QBs, but that doesn't mean he has a great accurate deep ball. Dalton's numbers on those types of throws have been as good or better.
Andy's deep ball is just fine. I honestly can't believe people are still bringing up this myth that Dalton has a weak arm.
If you want to see an actual weak arm, watch some Vikings games.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
(03-28-2016, 09:42 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: Note i said 2005 rules. Now whether you believe the game we have today is better or worse than the game in 2005 is personal opinion and from my standpoint (opinion) it is worse. The NFL was lousy last year on the whole, the worst i have ever seen it. The kids today would get killed by those old players/rules. See my sig for a prime example. That guy or "old school" type of player wouldn't have been suspended for 3 games in 2005 for that hit. Ray Lewis proves that. 2005 NFL> 2015 NFL and it isn't even close.
Rules don't matter. The better team would still win. And players just keep getting bigger and faster. So the '15 team would have beaten the '05 team under any rules.
It blows me away the amount of people that buy into the anti-Dalton bullshit. The guy is one of the best deep ball passers every year. Just because people buy into the media hype about the weapons at his disposal doesn't make it true. The only weapon that may make Dalton better is Green and that's not an all the time thing either. Because of 2 games (playoff game and Jets game), everyone acts like Marvin Jones was a top 10 WR. It's just not true. Jones was definitely good, but people's perceptions are skewed. Sanu didn't really start taking a beating until he signed with Atlanta. People continuously say that Dalton is surrounded by the best talent in the league and it's just not true. I'm not saying they're scrubs, but take the Dalton bashing glasses off.
Green could definitely end up breaking all of Chad's numbers. Like it or not, Andy Dalton is part of the reason Green will have a shot.
(03-28-2016, 09:42 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: Note i said 2005 rules. Now whether you believe the game we have today is better or worse than the game in 2005 is personal opinion and from my standpoint (opinion) it is worse. The NFL was lousy last year on the whole, the worst i have ever seen it. The kids today would get killed by those old players/rules. See my sig for a prime example. That guy or "old school" type of player wouldn't have been suspended for 3 games in 2005 for that hit. Ray Lewis proves that. 2005 NFL> 2015 NFL and it isn't even close.
dude our Defense was soft back then.... now we did have a pretty good oline but still think Geno and company would get home. Rudi vs Burfict = Burfict wins.
Our defensive backfield would have matched up well with that offense.
and Dalton with green and eifert would have murdered the 05 defense. under 05 or 15 rules.
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