RG3 in AFCN

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-24-2016, 06:43 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: If I were a Browns fan, I'd like the move. Griffin had enough talent to get some team to offer up a slew of draft picks just a few years ago. He was sensational as a rookie and he really wasn't all that bad in his other 2 seasons either.

People keep saying he's glass, but outside of his rookie season, when has he missed time due to injury? They intentionally sat him for the last 3 games of 2013 to "keep him healthy" (to get a look at Cousins). They benched him in 2014 after 7 games. They kept him benched last year.

So where is all this time missed due to injury? He's actually had 1 injury that caused him to miss time and then Shanny rushed him back for that playoff game before he was truly ready to go - which led to further injury of the same knee. His speed hasn't been the same since. Or at least it seems that way.

In short, if Hue can get RGIII to improve in the pocket (which seems possible, given his work with Dalton), then I think this could be a very good signing for the Browns. At the very least, RGIII is a decent QB as is.

I agree that if I were a Browns fan I would be excited. But that isn't hard when your previous QBs have been Manziel, McCown, Hoyer, Campbell, Weeden, etc.

That said, while he hasn't had the time to show he's made out of glass due to other things keeping him from ever playing enough, the point remains he's a 220 pound running QB and history has told us that running QBs don't survive long, let alone ones that aren't built like Cam Newton's 245 pounds or whatnot.

You have QBs like Russell Wilson and Alex Smith who are QBs that can run if they want to, but it isn't what their game revolves around. Any QB who's game revolves around running the ball will get broken in the NFL and if you're not a giant, it'll happen sooner rather than later.

Heck, even Ben Roethlisberger even though he's not a "running" QB, is a play extending scrambling QB and he's played 16 games in a season 3 times in 12 years despite being 240 pounds according to NFL.com. (Lol, as if he's actually freaking 240 pounds and 5 pounds lighter than Cam Newton. Just like Bob Sanders was never 5'8")

[Shake n Blake]

(03-25-2016, 02:21 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I agree that if I were a Browns fan I would be excited. But that isn't hard when your previous QBs have been Manziel, McCown, Hoyer, Campbell, Weeden, etc.

That said, while he hasn't had the time to show he's made out of glass due to other things keeping him from ever playing enough, the point remains he's a 220 pound running QB and history has told us that running QBs don't survive long, let alone ones that aren't built like Cam Newton's 245 pounds or whatnot.

You have QBs like Russell Wilson and Alex Smith who are QBs that can run if they want to, but it isn't what their game revolves around. Any QB who's game revolves around running the ball will get broken in the NFL and if you're not a giant, it'll happen sooner rather than later.

Heck, even Ben Roethlisberger even though he's not a "running" QB, is a play extending scrambling QB and he's played 16 games in a season 3 times in 12 years despite being 240 pounds according to NFL.com. (Lol, as if he's actually freaking 240 pounds and 5 pounds lighter than Cam Newton. Just like Bob Sanders was never 5'8")

I don't think we really disagree on much. I'm not saying I would like the move because RGIII is a superstar or anything. I'd like it because RGIII is at the very least a competent QB with some upside. At worst, he's better than what they've had. At best, he could be a very good QB for them.

I agree on running QB's, but I don't think it's fair to assume he's made of glass based on 1 injury and the fact that he runs some. He has started 20 games since 2012 and hasn't missed any more games due to injury, so there's that. Not exactly a big sample size, but there's no more evidence that he's made of glass.

Also, I don't picture Hue having RGIII's game revolve around running. You mention Alex Smith, I could see RGIII being used in a similar manner. They'll probably run the ball a lot and RGIII will manage the game mostly from the pocket. Surely there will be plays where RGIII gets to use his running skills, but I don't see that being the focus. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd bet against RGIII running around like Vick this year.

[*Nately120*]

(03-25-2016, 10:25 AM)masonbengals fan Wrote: He's an upgrade over what they have had recently. Is he the future face of the franchise. No.

Based on what?  McCown played fairly well, was cheaper, would have taken a 1 year deal (I assume), is a great mentor to younger QBs, and is a great personality in the locker room.  IR3 hasn't played good football in years, got a pretty big 2-year contract, spent most of 2015 playing safety on the scout team, doesn't display leadership/maturity/mentoring ability, and he left a self-gratifying goodbye letter in his locker when Washington released him.

I don't see how he is better than McCown UNLESS the idea is to get production out of RGIII and trade McCown and the #2 pick for more picks and either get a lower-end rookie QB or to just roll with RGIII and hope the Browns can resurrect his career (that's a laugh).

 

[Shake n Blake]

@Nately, from what I read, that poster was in his locker for a year or possibly longer. He just didn't take it with him when he cleaned out his locker. I'd chalk that one up to the media making something out of nothing. People just look for anything to bash about the guy, and ironically that's probably why he had such a poster in his locker. For all we know, that poster was motivation for him to deal with the media, not aimed at the Redskins.

[*Nately120*]

(03-25-2016, 07:43 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: @Nately, from what I read, that poster was in his locker for a year or possibly longer. He just didn't take it with him when he cleaned out his locker. I'd chalk that one up to the media making something out of nothing. People just look for anything to bash about the guy, and ironically that's probably why he had such a poster in his locker. For all we know, that poster was motivation for him to deal with the media, not aimed at the Redskins.

Could very well be.  Take the poster out of the equation and to me this seems like the Browns are again hoping to hit a homerun with a cast-off from a not so good franchise rather than actually draft a QB in the 1st that isn't littered with red flags (no one with a brain thought Weeden and Manziel were going to work out), or throwing a totally raw QB into an unwinniable situation and then giving up too soon.

It almost seemed like the Browns had a shot using a teaching vet in McCown to develop Wentz or Goff, but meh...

[kevin]

(03-24-2016, 02:41 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: Wow so they're just skipping the step where they draft a QB that can't play in the NFL and just go sign one instead. If that keeps them from wasting their first round pick on another QB bust then it'll be a really good pickup.

I read in news that Browns still intend to draft a QB early on, maybe not round 1, but early on. .....Look for Hue to use RG3 as his wildcat QB. .....They haven't given up On Johnny Football last I heard, if he is still on the team....and they want to draft a QB in hopes he might be the real deal......So as usual, many QB changes going on with Browns and many coaching changes as well, as usual.....I think they change things up way to much and that is why they stay in last place. 

[Shake n Blake]

(03-25-2016, 08:01 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Could very well be.  Take the poster out of the equation and to me this seems like the Browns are again hoping to hit a homerun with a cast-off from a not so good franchise rather than actually draft a QB in the 1st that isn't littered with red flags (no one with a brain thought Weeden and Manziel were going to work out), or throwing a totally raw QB into an unwinniable situation and then giving up too soon.

It almost seemed like the Browns had a shot using a teaching vet in McCown to develop Wentz or Goff, but meh...

I feel ya on McCown teaching Wentz. The thing is, they've tried to turn around that franchise SO many times by trying to find that miracle QB. So what if they reverse that approach? Build the team first, then find a long term QB? If I'm a Browns fan, I'm hoping they trade that #2 pick (we may as well say the rights to Carson Wentz) for a slew of draft picks. 

The Browns already had a ton of holes before they let Benjamin, Dansby and half their o-line walk. So I'd like the idea of getting a small truckload of additional picks to build the team. 2016 can be a building year, and in the meantime they can find out if RGIII can be a long term solution. If he is, great for them. If not, they'll probably be picking high again next year, and they can then select a QB. This time with (theoretically) a better young cast to put around him.

As for RGIII's red flags, I think the Redskins are as much to blame for all of that, if not more so. They handled him poorly, imo.

[xxlt]

I learned of the signing from a facebook friend who renounced his life-long commitment as a Browns fan. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

[BFritz21]

(03-26-2016, 04:25 PM)xxlt Wrote: I learned of the signing from a facebook friend who renounced his life-long commitment as a Browns fan. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

Really?   THAT'S what put him over the edge?!

Makes me feel even more sorry for Browns fans 

[*Nately120*]

(03-26-2016, 11:20 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I feel ya on McCown teaching Wentz. The thing is, they've tried to turn around that franchise SO many times by trying to find that miracle QB. So what if they reverse that approach? Build the team first, then find a long term QB? If I'm a Browns fan, I'm hoping they trade that #2 pick (we may as well say the rights to Carson Wentz) for a slew of draft picks. 

The Browns already had a ton of holes before they let Benjamin, Dansby and half their o-line walk. So I'd like the idea of getting a small truckload of additional picks to build the team. 2016 can be a building year, and in the meantime they can find out if RGIII can be a long term solution. If he is, great for them. If not, they'll probably be picking high again next year, and they can then select a QB. This time with (theoretically) a better young cast to put around him.

As for RGIII's red flags, I think the Redskins are as much to blame for all of that, if not more so. They handled him poorly, imo.

Hmm, I guess it depends on if Goff/Wentz are actually good QBs that can be developed into franchise guys or not.  I realize this draft doesn't have a no-brainer like Luck but it's not exactly the EJ Manuel or Geno Smith draft either.  

The Browns can/should build the rest of the team but I don't think the AFC North is the sort of division where you can compete without a QB anyways, so the issue wasn't the Browns drafting QBs, but drafting the wrong ones.  

Manziel
Weeden
McCoy
Quinn
Frye
Luke McCown
Wynn
Couch

are all the QBs they have drafted since they came back into the league.  If I recall, all of them either had red flags prior to being drafted, were low, unlikely to be franchise QB picks, or were Tim Couch (a man selected to put an entire franchise on his back ala David Carr).  I don't think they've drafted the RIGHT QB, and I don't see Wentz or Goff fitting the same mold as guys like Manziel (so many red flags), Weeden (this guy is like 30), Quinn (what a jackass), or the other later picks.

I didn't expect the Browns to pick a guy at #2 and then become good overnight, but it would be the first QB they picked in a long time that seems like a good pick, right?

[Shake n Blake]

(03-27-2016, 07:02 PM)Nately120 Wrote: ...I didn't expect the Browns to pick a guy at #2 and then become good overnight, but it would be the first QB they picked in a long time that seems like a good pick, right?

I agree. I really like Wentz as a prospect. At least more so than guys like Brady Quinn and Johnny Manziel. It makes it a somewhat difficult decision, but the thought of getting a boatload of picks is too tempting IMO. Fwiw, they could trade down and still land Paxton Lynch. Then they could groom him, let RGIII start this year and still land some extra picks to build the team. 

I guess it all comes down to how they feel about Wentz (or maybe Goff). I would think that if they were thrilled about them as prospects, they wouldn't have signed RGIII and given him starter money. That said, they could've done that to keep teams from thinking they have to trade ahead of the Browns for Wentz/Goff.

[*Nately120*]

(03-27-2016, 08:26 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I agree. I really like Wentz as a prospect. At least more so than guys like Brady Quinn and Johnny Manziel. It makes it a somewhat difficult decision, but the thought of getting a boatload of picks is too tempting IMO. Fwiw, they could trade down and still land Paxton Lynch. Then they could groom him, let RGIII start this year and still land some extra picks to build the team. 

I guess it all comes down to how they feel about Wentz (or maybe Goff). I would think that if they were thrilled about them as prospects, they wouldn't have signed RGIII and given him starter money. That said, they could've done that to keep teams from thinking they have to trade ahead of the Browns for Wentz/Goff.

I feel like if the plan was to develop Wentz/Goff/Lynch etc they would have/should have kept McCown.  There is no guarantee they get rid of him, but they NEED to at least try putting a real vet who can mentor (NOT RGIII and NOT like Hoyer) in front of a QB.  They never develop anyone, but McCown does play a style of football that gets him hurt a lot, so they would have to toss a rookie in there eventually, as it is.

Maybe the plan is to put McCown and RGIII in front of the rookie?  They really need to:

A.  Draft a QB who isn't some late-round nobody
B.  Draft a QB who isn't an obvious waste of time

[Essex Johnson]

(03-26-2016, 11:20 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I feel ya on McCown teaching Wentz. The thing is, they've tried to turn around that franchise SO many times by trying to find that miracle QB. So what if they reverse that approach? Build the team first, then find a long term QB? If I'm a Browns fan, I'm hoping they trade that #2 pick (we may as well say the rights to Carson Wentz) for a slew of draft picks. 

The Browns already had a ton of holes before they let Benjamin, Dansby and half their o-line walk. So I'd like the idea of getting a small truckload of additional picks to build the team. 2016 can be a building year, and in the meantime they can find out if RGIII can be a long term solution. If he is, great for them. If not, they'll probably be picking high again next year, and they can then select a QB. This time with (theoretically) a better young cast to put around him.

As for RGIII's red flags, I think the Redskins are as much to blame for all of that, if not more so. They handled him poorly, imo.

RG is just a fill in i believe for the Browns ...  After his first season, he degressed.. regardless the ups and downs with the team.. you can't run from a 5-15 record with 20 TDs to 18 INT.I don't think they envision him as their future QB... He is a gap fit till they develop the QB they take with 2nd round pick is my opinion.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-28-2016, 09:10 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: RG is just a fill in i believe for the Browns ...  After his first season, he degressed.. regardless the ups and downs with the team.. you can't run from a 5-15 record with 20 TDs to 18 INT.I don't think they envision him as their future QB... He is a gap fit till they develop the QB they take with 2nd round pick is my opinion.

20 to 18 is still a postive ratio. Not good, but not exactly terrible. The Redskins had many problems that led to that 5-15 record over RG's last 20 starts. In 2013 they finished 30th in points allowed. They did average 21.5 points scored in RG's 13 starts that year, which is solid. They allowed an average of 31.3 though, which is about as bad as it gets.

Either way, is 20 games with an overall 83.7 rating enough evidence to say he's worthless? It's not exactly a big sample size and much of it came with him recovering from injury with a bulky knee brace. Even if RG plays at his 2013-14 level, he'd still be an improvement for many teams. If he can somehow play at his 2012 level (not as far fetched as some make it seem), then the Browns just got a steal.

You may be right that RG is just a place holder or stop-gap, but I think if Hue and the Browns didn't see potential, they would've just stuck with Josh McCown. Word is that Hue was floored by RG's workout.

[Bengal Dude]

(03-28-2016, 12:36 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 20 to 18 is still a postive ratio. Not good, but not exactly terrible. The Redskins had many problems that led to that 5-15 record over RG's last 20 starts. In 2013 they finished 30th in points allowed. They did average 21.5 points scored in RG's 13 starts that year, which is solid. They allowed an average of 31.3 though, which is about as bad as it gets.

Either way, is 20 games with an overall 83.7 rating enough evidence to say he's worthless? It's not exactly a big sample size and much of it came with him recovering from injury with a bulky knee brace. Even if RG plays at his 2013-14 level, he'd still be an improvement for many teams. If he can somehow play at his 2012 level (not as far fetched as some make it seem), then the Browns just got a steal.

You may be right that RG is just a place holder or stop-gap, but I think if Hue and the Browns didn't see potential, they would've just stuck with Josh McCown. Word is that Hue was floored by RG's workout.

I'm not sure if the "floored" comment was just Hue being Hue and trying to be sneaky, but it seems unlikely that RG3 is going to be a long term starter for them. It seems like he's one of the guys who buys into the "The #1 QB in the draft is from North Dakota State" mentality and is hoping to find a franchise QB somewhere else.

[Essex Johnson]

(03-28-2016, 12:36 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 20 to 18 is still a postive ratio. Not good, but not exactly terrible. The Redskins had many problems that led to that 5-15 record over RG's last 20 starts. In 2013 they finished 30th in points allowed. They did average 21.5 points scored in RG's 13 starts that year, which is solid. They allowed an average of 31.3 though, which is about as bad as it gets.

Either way, is 20 games with an overall 83.7 rating enough evidence to say he's worthless? It's not exactly a big sample size and much of it came with him recovering from injury with a bulky knee brace. Even if RG plays at his 2013-14 level, he'd still be an improvement for many teams. If he can somehow play at his 2012 level (not as far fetched as some make it seem), then the Browns just got a steal.

You may be right that RG is just a place holder or stop-gap, but I think if Hue and the Browns didn't see potential, they would've just stuck with Josh McCown. Word is that Hue was floored by RG's workout.

And if he flops.. Brown out more millions on QBs.... I never was that high on RGIII , he had one very good first year and nothing in the last 3 years.. amazing as Dalton has passed him by as a QB... but Hue was impressed and that does say something.. if they draft a QB with 2nd pick that will say a bit more though.

[Sled21]

http://dailysnark.com/report-rgiii-tears-acl-walking-browns-facility-first-time/

[*Nately120*]

(03-29-2016, 11:51 AM)Sled21 Wrote: http://dailysnark.com/report-rgiii-tears-acl-walking-browns-facility-first-time/

We can joke, but I recall Kevin Kolb being ushered out of AZ for being made out of glass, being signed by the Bills and then slipping on a rubber mat on the practice field and tearing up his knee.  Oof.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/22999139/bills-qb-kevin-kolb-tweaks-knee-after-slipping-on-mat

[tigerseye]

You know when you walk in the woods in the heat of the summer and you step on a really dry stick and you hear that really load "crack".

Thats what I think of RG3 in the AFC North.

His future.  "Pain"

[Passepartout]

He is just short term. Keep in mind despite the money he was paid. Think that Browns will try to groom a long term QB.