Hobson on Sirius

[fredtoast]

(04-02-2016, 06:10 PM)Thundercloud Wrote:  But if we don't get a good wide receiver, we're one AJ Green injury away from running in mud, offensively.

If Michael Johnson or Carlos Dunlap gets injured then Margus Hunt or Will Clarke will be starting at DE.

If Geno Atkins gets injured then Brandon Thompson or Pat Sims will be starting at DT.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-02-2016, 06:31 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Well if they consider LaFell to be a bridge or stop-gap, but they don't view WR as a priority, then then all that means is they probably won't be going WR in round 1 unless they're really impressed with someone. I don't see any way they don't draft a WR, but it looks like LaFell will have a more prominent role in '16 than some people thought.

It's good to hear that the Bengals think LaFell can play slot and outside, as many people here seem to think LaFell is useless on the outside for whatever reason. As for the rest, it's good to hear that the coaches still like Dawson. I'll join others in saying I'd be disappointed if RB is our first round pick.

He's averaged a full yard more per catch than Marvin Jones, with a career high of 17.0 ypc in 2011 compared to Jones' 14.0 career high in 2013.

Admittedly haven't seen him play a ton or anything, but that should generally mean some pretty decent things. Also has the ability to take it to the house (4 TDs of 40+ yards since 2012 compared to Jones' 1).

I am a bit worried about the Tom Brady effect though. Has there been any WRs who have produced like they did for the Patriots? I'm just picturing Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd...

[phil413]

(04-02-2016, 03:43 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If they really think that WR isn't a priority, then they learned nothing from 2014.

As for Elliott, if he's there (I highly highly doubt he will be) then you take him. Gio is in his contract year, and you don't know what you actually have with Hill. Is he the RB of that 9 game stretch, or is he the RB of the other 25 games? Lock up a RB who I think will be a beast for 5 years, and see if someone out there wants to trade for Hill. That said, I think it's kind of a moot point because I doubt he gets even close to where the Bengals pick.

 
That's a good take.  They're only likely to sign one of them long-term, and you'd free up money for another position.  Sure I'm a Buckeye fan, but it's hard not to see him as a top 5 player overall.  He sees holes, explodes through them and is hard to take down.  He's better than Gurley and not coming off an injury, just an out of place comment if anything at all.  He's an exception though, it's going to be hard to get fair value in a Hill trade and Gio runs smooth with the starters so a RB trade may not come together.  If they land a late round gem that beats out the other guys so be it, depth is nice to have. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-02-2016, 06:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If Michael Johnson or Carlos Dunlap gets injured then Margus Hunt or Will Clarke will be starting at DE.

If Geno Atkins gets injured then Brandon Thompson or Pat Sims will be starting at DT.

If Johnson or Dunlap goes down, you still have Atkins and either Johnson or Dunlap on your DL. If Atkins goes down you still have Johnson and Dunlap. It'd be noticably worse, but manageable.

If AJ goes down, you have LaFell, Tate, and Alford in your WR corps.

Not the same at all (I know you know this too, but Hobson/Bengals have spoken, so you're bound to defend whatever it is they said). Even if you want to add in Eifert to make it a receiving corps rather than a WR corps, Eifert's career high yardage is 615 yards. Not even close to the same.

[fredtoast]

(04-02-2016, 07:01 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If Johnson or Dunlap goes down, you still have Atkins and either Johnson or Dunlap on your DL. If Atkins goes down you still have Johnson and Dunlap. It'd be noticably worse, but manageable.

If AJ goes down, you have LaFell, Tate, and Alford in your WR corps.

Not the same at all (I know you know this too, but Hobson/Bengals have spoken, so you're bound to defend whatever it is they said). Even if you want to add in Eifert to make it a receiving corps rather than a WR corps, Eifert's career high yardage is 615 yards. Not even close to the same.

I'd take our offense with Dalton throwing to Eifer and LaFell over our defense with Hunt starting at DE any day of the week.

And you would to except you have to take the position contrary to whatever Hobsen says.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-02-2016, 07:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I'd take our offense with Dalton throwing to Eifer and LaFell over our defense with Hunt starting at DE any day of the week.

And you would to except you have to take the position contrary to whatever Hobsen says.

I really wouldn't. I don't like Hunt, but even if Dunlap is out, you have Atkins and MJ. If MJ is out you have Atkins and Dunlap. As long as you have one of Dunlap or Atkins, you have someone who can do well and eat up double teams and still produce.

Without AJ drawing double coverage and producing, the rest of the receiving corps as it stands right now would be pretty damn awful.

[*bfine32*]

One thing I forgot to mention in the OP: He was asked about the RT job and he answered like it was not even a question; Ced will be our starting RT next year.

[fredtoast]

(04-02-2016, 07:27 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I really wouldn't. I don't like Hunt, but even if Dunlap is out, you have Atkins and MJ. If MJ is out you have Atkins and Dunlap. As long as you have one of Dunlap or Atkins, you have someone who can do well and eat up double teams and still produce.

Without AJ drawing double coverage and producing, the rest of the receiving corps as it stands right now would be pretty damn awful.

On offense you can scheme around a weakness.

But on defense you can not hide a weakness because the offense controls where the ball goes.  

[fortyyearfan]

(04-02-2016, 03:43 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If they really think that WR isn't a priority, then they learned nothing from 2014.

As for Elliott, if he's there (I highly highly doubt he will be) then you take him. Gio is in his contract year, and you don't know what you actually have with Hill. Is he the RB of that 9 game stretch, or is he the RB of the other 25 games? Lock up a RB who I think will be a beast for 5 years, and see if someone out there wants to trade for Hill. That said, I think it's kind of a moot point because I doubt he gets even close to where the Bengals pick.

The first round pick should be and must be a stud D-line person.That is a big need and this years class in the best in years for Defense.We MUST address this position and I feel like they are going to do so .I want a stud DT-DE OR NT.There are several that we could get.I seriously like ROBERT NKEMDICHE,ANDREW BILLLING,JAVON HARGROVE,THE REED DUDE FROM ALABAMA,YOU PICK ONE.We need to go after a top D-lineman and there will be a stud sitting there as the BPA with our 24 th pick.I am saying this is something I hope they address with the first pick.Do not want until the second round as all the super good ones will be gone.I want to see someone that can line up next to Geno Atkins and kill the qb.Its time we made are defense number one in the NFL.We have excellent coaching on D and we need to get after it this season.You all know the stinkin stoolers will have a defense that kills people,we need to match that.It will be the difference of moving on in the dance or staying home.D wins super bowls.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-02-2016, 06:52 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: He's averaged a full yard more per catch than Marvin Jones, with a career high of 17.0 ypc in 2011 compared to Jones' 14.0 career high in 2013.

Admittedly haven't seen him play a ton or anything, but that should generally mean some pretty decent things. Also has the ability to take it to the house (4 TDs of 40+ yards since 2012 compared to Jones' 1).

I am a bit worried about the Tom Brady effect though. Has there been any WRs who have produced like they did for the Patriots? I'm just picturing Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd...

Well it's not like those guys were scrubs elsewhere, and Deion Branch was solid when healthy with Seattle. Ben Watson too. I don't expect LaFell to dominate or anything, but I think 700+ yards and and a few big plays are probable if he's starting opposite Green. We do need to draft someone for the future though. It would also give us better depth/competition this year.

[Brownshoe]

(04-02-2016, 09:02 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Well it's not like those guys were scrubs elsewhere, and Deion Branch was solid when healthy with Seattle. Ben Watson too. I don't expect LaFell to dominate or anything, but I think 700+ yards and and a few big plays are probable if he's starting opposite Green. We do need to draft someone for the future though. It would also give us better depth/competition this year.

I think that most people just way overestimate Marvin Jones personally.

[fredtoast]

(04-02-2016, 06:52 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I am a bit worried about the Tom Brady effect though. Has there been any WRs who have produced like they did for the Patriots? I'm just picturing Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd...

Jabar Gaffney was better for both the Redskins and Broncos than he was with the Patriots

[PDub80]

(04-02-2016, 07:49 PM)fortyyearfan Wrote: The first round pick should be and must be a stud D-line person.That is a big need and this years class in the best in years for Defense.We MUST address this position and I feel like they are going to do so .I want a stud DT-DE OR NT.There are several that we could get.I seriously like ROBERT NKEMDICHE,ANDREW BILLLING,JAVON HARGROVE,THE REED DUDE FROM ALABAMA,YOU PICK ONE.We need to go after a top D-lineman and there will be a stud sitting there as the BPA with our 24 th pick.I am saying this is something I hope they address with the first pick.Do not want until the second round as all the super good ones will be gone.I want to see someone that can line up next to Geno Atkins and kill the qb.Its time we made are defense number one in the NFL.We have excellent coaching on D and we need to get after it this season.You all know the stinkin stoolers will have a defense that kills people,we need to match that.It will be the difference of moving on in the dance or staying home.D wins super bowls.

Correct, so WHY take one early? There will be 1st round Dline talent available in the 3rd and 4th round because the draft is so deep. Take the shallow draft class talent early so that your later rounds aren't filled with trash.

Seriously, look at the D-linemen grades on NFL.com's draft site and see who high they are. There are guys rated 6 or higher 16 spots down!!!!! http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/tracker?icampaign=draft-sub_nav_bar-drafteventpage-tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-position/dt-by-position-input:dl Then look at the other spots to compare. The Bengals can get 1st round Dline talent late EASILY this draft. 

Draft depth by position rated 6 or higher...

QB = 3
WR = 3
RB = 3
OL = 5
TE = 1

DL = 16
LB = 5
CB = 3
S = 0

With 16 Dlinemen rated that high... six-freaking-teen... the Bengals need to wait on that spot. Would be foolish to take that spot high and then lose out on premium talent at other spots due to lack of supply in this years draft. Premium Dline talent WILL be there in round 3 and later.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-02-2016, 10:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Jabar Gaffney was better for both the Redskins and Broncos than he was with the Patriots

Perhaps.. but was he better, or just simply more used? There is a difference.

Jabar Gaffney was the Patriots' #5 WR in 2006, #4 WR in 2007. He only became their #3 WR in 2008, but that was the year Tom Brady had all of 11 pass attempts, so you can't really have the Tom Brady effect without Tom Brady. Lol

He was actually Washington's #1 receiver, and I believe the Broncos' #2. I don't think that was necessarily a merited promotion more than really crappy teams having no good WRs so they just threw to him a lot. Like when Sanu became the #1 briefly in 2014 due to Jones and Green being hurt. Sure he had bigger numbers, but that was because he was forcefed the ball. He also was among league lead in drops. So I would argue he didn't actually get better.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-02-2016, 10:58 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Correct, so WHY take one early? There will be 1st round Dline talent available in the 3rd and 4th round because the draft is so deep. Take the shallow draft class talent early so that your later rounds aren't filled with trash.

Seriously, look at the D-linemen grades on NFL.com's draft site and see who high they are. There are guys rated 6 or higher 16 spots down!!!!! http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/tracker?icampaign=draft-sub_nav_bar-drafteventpage-tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-position/dt-by-position-input:dl Then look at the other spots to compare. The Bengals can get 1st round Dline talent late EASILY this draft. 

Draft depth by position rated 6 or higher...

QB = 3
WR = 3
RB = 3
OL = 5
TE = 1

DL = 16
LB = 5
CB = 3
S = 0

With 16 Dlinemen rated that high... six-freaking-teen... the Bengals need to wait on that spot. Would be foolish to take that spot high and then lose out on premium talent at other spots due to lack of supply in this years draft. Premium Dline talent WILL be there in round 3 and later.

Biggest problem with that is you chose 6 as the cutoff point to make your point. According to their little chart thing on there, a 6.00-6.49 is a "Chance to become good NFL starter."

I don't think I would describe "CHANCE to become good NFL starter" as first round talent. That's why NFL people often say they don't ever view there being 32 actual 1st round talents in a draft yet there's 39 people with at least a 6.

That said, I agree with your overall message that they aren't required to draft DL in the first round to get decent help.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
Side note:
It is kind of funny how they seem to change their prospect ranking system every other year. Gotta have consistency if you want something to ever catch on. For instance, just last year 5.50-5.99 was the "Chance to become good NFL starter." In 2013 a 70-84 was a "Eventual Starter". In 2011, they didn't even have numbers for their prospects.

[Ricky Spanish]

(04-02-2016, 03:20 PM)BigRed75 Wrote: Zeke will not translate to the NFL...book it. He is a byproduct of a scheme and deception and is not very good at catching the ball out of the backfield. If they take him with one of Fuller, Coleman or Doctson on the board I would be pissed!

You're dead wrong but I still don't want a 1st round RB

[PDub80]

(04-02-2016, 11:20 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Biggest problem with that is you chose 6 as the cutoff point to make your point. According to their little chart thing on there, a 6.00-6.49 is a "Chance to become good NFL starter."

I don't think I would describe "CHANCE to become good NFL starter" as first round talent. That's why NFL people often say they don't ever view there being 32 actual 1st round talents in a draft yet there's 39 people with at least a 6.

That said, I agree with your overall message that they aren't required to draft DL in the first round to get decent help.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
Side note:
It is kind of funny how they seem to change their prospect ranking system every other year. Gotta have consistency if you want something to ever catch on. For instance, just last year 5.50-5.99 was the "Chance to become good NFL starter." In 2013 a 70-84 was a "Eventual Starter". In 2011, they didn't even have numbers for their prospects.

I guess I don't get your point? Mine was pretty clear. Lots of Dline talent. Not much depth anywhere else this draft.

6 is a strong grade. There is a big drop off between a guy who is considered a 6 & a guy in the 5s, which is why I chose it.

[fredtoast]

(04-02-2016, 10:58 PM)PDub80 Wrote: The Bengals can get 1st round Dline talent late EASILY this draft

With 16 Dlinemen rated that high... six-freaking-teen... the Bengals need to wait on that spot. Would be foolish to take that spot high and then lose out on premium talent at other spots due to lack of supply in this years draft. Premium Dline talent WILL be there in round 3 and later.

If they are rated higher then they will be drafted higher.

Just because their are more of them that does not mean they will still be around in the later rounds.  when there are more higher rated players at a position then there are more players selected early at that position.

There is no way other teams in the league will let first round talent sit on the board into the middle rounds.

[PDub80]

(04-02-2016, 11:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If they are rated higher then they will be drafted higher.

Just because their are more of them that does not mean they will still be around in the later rounds.  when there are more higher rated players at a position then there are more players selected early at that position.

There is no way other teams in the league will let first round talent sit on the board into the middle rounds.

I will look at other drafts to see!

Be back in a few!

[*bfine32*]

(04-02-2016, 06:52 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I am a bit worried about the Tom Brady effect though. Has there been any WRs who have produced like they did for the Patriots? I'm just picturing Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd...

There was this one guy that wore 85