Interesting stat on Bernard

[*bfine32*]

(04-17-2016, 02:49 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Sorry, I thought we were comparing these players since Gio came into the league

We are and since that time:

Player A has 3845 yards from scrimmage
Player B has 3440 yards from scrimmage
Player C has 2197 yards from scrimmage

Which 2 players compare more favorably? 

[Okeana]

(04-16-2016, 07:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Since Gio came into the league in 2013 he is one of only 5 NFL players to have over 2000 yds rushing and 1000 receiving.

But this is a perfect example of a stat that is not as impressive as it sounds.  Although Gio deserves all the credit for doing something only 4 other players have done he really isn't in the same class as the other 4.

Here are the yards per game for Gio and the others

Le'Veon Bell.........119.0
Matt Forte............112.6
Jamaal Charles.....109.9
DeMarco Murray....105.7
Gio Bernard........... 76.4

Here is another example of fredtoast telling half the story and undercutting the talent of bernard

Bernard Rushing

Attempts  492
yards 2,105
AVG 4.3
LNG 89
TD 12 - Bell has more toachdowns, but how many times has Hill stepped in to drop in a 1 yard TD after Gio carries it down the field?
FUM 1

Bell Rushing

att 647
yrds 2777
avg 4.3
LNG 81
TD 19
Fum 1

........................

Receiving

Gio

targets 196
rec  148
yrds 1335
avg 9.0
LNG 46
TD 5

bell

targets 197
rec  152
yrds 1389
avg 9.1
LNG 48
TD 3


...............

Bernard is statistically the same back as Bell without half the praise.  Hill is garbage. good day

[XenoMorph]

(04-17-2016, 11:28 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Jamaal Charles is possibly the most underrated player in the league.


-Since 2010 he is the only player in the league to have 3 seasons with at least 1700 yards from scrimmage.

-Despite despite missing 13 games over the last 3 seasons Charles still scored more tds than any player in the league over that span (38). Marshawn Lynch, Antonio Brown, and Brandon Marshall are tied for second with 34, and they have all played many more games than Charles.

because alex smith can only throw it to running backs apparently lol

Who else is on the field also plays into how many shots to produce these guys get.

[Essex Johnson]

(04-17-2016, 10:20 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Actually Charles is one of the most dynamic runners in NFL history.... It would
Be fair to compare him.

That would be like saying you can't compare Calvin Johnson to jerry rice.  When they are both some of the best wide receivers to play the game.  If Jamal Charles can play at the level he does in a day in age where it is routine for defensive players to run 4.5's at 250 lb- pretty sure he could have played when the biggest guy on a field was 250 and athleticism wasn't even close.  

Long story short- Charles may have (more likely would have) accumulated even more yards in a shorter time in the brown era

AFter 8 seasons.. J. Charles is a maybe HOF, after 8 seasons Brown was considered the greatest RB of all time by most people.. funny how some people got so bent out of shape when I compared the first three years of Gio career to Charles.. but now we are putting Charles on the same level as Brown.. come on man....

[Essex Johnson]

(04-17-2016, 10:20 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Actually Charles is one of the most dynamic runners in NFL history.... It would
Be fair to compare him.

That would be like saying you can't compare Calvin Johnson to jerry rice.  When they are both some of the best wide receivers to play the game.  If Jamal Charles can play at the level he does in a day in age where it is routine for defensive players to run 4.5's at 250 lb- pretty sure he could have played when the biggest guy on a field was 250 and athleticism wasn't even close.  

Long story short- Charles may have (more likely would have) accumulated even more yards in a shorter time in the brown era

A better comparison Mercury Morris.. had 5.1 YPC played 8 seasons mostly with a 2 to 3 headed back field at Miami... Morris is not a HOF.. Charles is borderline 

[GreenDragon]

(04-16-2016, 07:36 PM)J24 Wrote: It's impressive when you consider that he has always had to split time with another RB.

This.

[Essex Johnson]

I agree Gio has performed very well in splitting time, Charles split time also his 1st year with Larry Johnson and third year with Thomas Jones but funny his 2nd year.. the second leading rusher in attempts was Matt Cassell.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-16-2016, 07:36 PM)J24 Wrote: It's impressive when you consider that he has always had to split time with another RB.

It is, those other guys are all the #1's on their team and receive like twice as many touches.

But with Charles and Bell's injuries that is impressive on their own part.

But Charles was like the entire Offense on the Chiefs too a couple years back.

BTW, need to re-sign Gio and Zeitler this year.

[Okeana]

(04-20-2016, 05:22 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: It is, those other guys are all the #1's on their team and receive like twice as many touches.

But with Charles and Bell's injuries that is impressive on their own part.

But Charles was like the entire Offense on the Chiefs too a couple years back.

BTW, need to re-sign Gio and Zeitler this year.

agreed I would like to see both get signed asap.  Zeitler is puttin in work!

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-20-2016, 09:46 PM)Okeana Wrote: agreed I would like to see both get signed asap.  Zeitler is puttin in work!

Yeah he is.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-17-2016, 10:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: We are and since that time:

Player A has 3845 yards from scrimmage
Player B has 3440 yards from scrimmage
Player C has 2197 yards from scrimmage

Which 2 players compare more favorably? 

Player A averaged 109.9 yards and 1.09 TDs per game
Player B averaged 76.4 yards and 0.38 TDs per game
Player C averaged 62.8 yards and 0.49 TDs per game

Which 2 players compare more favorably?

Can we stop pretending that these players (Charles and Woodhead) didn't miss nearly entire seasons due to injury during that 3 year span just to prop Gio up? Look at the production when both Charles and Gio are healthy. It's not even close. Plus the bulk yardage and TDs isn't even accounting for the huge gap in YPC.

Gio is really good. He's just not not on the same level as an all-pro who is arguably a top 3 RB. Heck, he can't even usurp a guy who averaged 3.6 YPC last year.

[Essex Johnson]

(04-21-2016, 12:54 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Player A averaged 109.9 yards and 1.09 TDs per game
Player B averaged 76.4 yards and 0.38 TDs per game
Player C averaged 62.8 yards and 0.49 TDs per game

Which 2 players compare more favorably?

Can we stop pretending that these players (Charles and Woodhead) didn't miss nearly entire seasons due to injury during that 3 year span just to prop Gio up? Look at the production when both Charles and Gio are healthy. It's not even close. Plus the bulk yardage and TDs isn't even accounting for the huge gap in YPC.

Gio is really good. He's just not not on the same level as an all-pro who is arguably a top 3 RB. Heck, he can't even usurp a guy who averaged 3.6 YPC last year.

 I am going to counter you by saying can we please put to rest comparing Woodhead first three years with Gios first three years.. it is not even close.. you talk about a great gap.. go back and look at Woodhead stats in his first three years... there is no comparison the lack of impact of Woodhead compared to Gio... 

As for comparing to Charles after three years.. Charles is ahead but to act like Gio does not have potential to move his game especially if he was the sole #1 after three solid seasons seems to be selling him short.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-21-2016, 07:47 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote:  I am going to counter you by saying can we please put to rest comparing Woodhead first three years with Gios first three years.. it is not even close.. you talk about a great gap.. go back and look at Woodhead stats in his first three years... there is no comparison the lack of impact of Woodhead compared to Gio... 

As for comparing to Charles after three years.. Charles is ahead but to act like Gio does not have potential to move his game especially if he was the sole #1 after three solid seasons seems to be selling him short.

We're not talking about Woodhead's first 3 years. We're talking about 2013-present with all 3 players.

I'm not sure why the Woodhead comparison is being viewed as an insult. Woodhead has been a fantastic role player for the Chargers with a pair of recent 1100 yard seasons. He's also scored more frequently than Gio, although Gio averaged slightly more yards per game during that time frame.

I just can't compare a role player to a guy who has been a top 3 RB production wise. It seems silly to me. Why stop there? Lets start comparing Gio to AP or Marshall Faulk. I love Gio. He's a good dude and our offense wouldn't be the same without him. And who knows, maybe in the future he'll bust out or something. People thought that was going to happen in 2014 and he was kind of a disappointment in the starting role.

For me, I'll wait until I see Gio put up 1900 total yards with a 5.5 ypc average before I start comparing him to someone who has already been there, done that. For now, Gio can't even start for his own team. If Charles were in Cincy, Hill would be riding the pine pretty quickly.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-21-2016, 12:54 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Player A averaged 109.9 yards and 1.09 TDs per game
Player B averaged 76.4 yards and 0.38 TDs per game
Player C averaged 62.8 yards and 0.49 TDs per game

Which 2 players compare more favorably?

Can we stop pretending that these players (Charles and Woodhead) didn't miss nearly entire seasons due to injury during that 3 year span just to prop Gio up? Look at the production when both Charles and Gio are healthy. It's not even close. Plus the bulk yardage and TDs isn't even accounting for the huge gap in YPC.

Gio is really good. He's just not not on the same level as an all-pro who is arguably a top 3 RB. Heck, he can't even usurp a guy who averaged 3.6 YPC last year.

Apples and oranges.

[Essex Johnson]

(04-21-2016, 11:33 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: We're not talking about Woodhead's first 3 years. We're talking about 2013-present with all 3 players.

I'm not sure why the Woodhead comparison is being viewed as an insult. Woodhead has been a fantastic role player for the Chargers with a pair of recent 1100 yard seasons. He's also scored more frequently than Gio, although Gio averaged slightly more yards per game during that time frame.

I just can't compare a role player to a guy who has been a top 3 RB production wise. It seems silly to me. Why stop there? Lets start comparing Gio to AP or Marshall Faulk. I love Gio. He's a good dude and our offense wouldn't be the same without him. And who knows, maybe in the future he'll bust out or something. People thought that was going to happen in 2014 and he was kind of a disappointment in the starting role.

For me, I'll wait until I see Gio put up 1900 total yards with a 5.5 ypc average before I start comparing him to someone who has already been there, done that. For now, Gio can't even start for his own team. If Charles were in Cincy, Hill would be riding the pine pretty quickly.

If you compare first three years, Gio's overall production is far superior... 3,400 yards ( 3 seasons) to around 2,300 (4 seasons) , Woodhead edge in YPC, Gio edge in Tds.. there just is not enough production from Woodhead to compare to Gio in start of career.  If you read my posts that is what I have discussed.. comparing players is hard because there is no set way to compare.. but my gut is after 3 years of playing.. Gio would get more in the open market than Woodhead would have after 3 years.  Lets allow Gio to compete for 7 years then you have a much better comparison but I have little doubt that Gio is a superior player at this time in his career than Woodhead and it seems silly to put Woodhead on the same par at his 3/4 year in his career.  



As for saying Hill would be sitting the pine after his 2nd year that also seems a bit extreme.  You seem to want to compare a player 8 years in to a player 2 years in.. unfair ... How about you go back and see that in Charles first three years he split time with two backs:  Larry Johnson and Thomas Jones, both of them averaged close to 900 yards each year they played with Charles and .  If Charles was entering his 4th season here, he would be the starter but Hill would get probably as many carries especially short yard carries which can skew YPC.   If you look back to Charles 3rd year which was a great year, he got less carries (averaged just 14 carries a game) than Jones that year.