The Bodine Witch Hunt

[TGISunday]

Seriously, check the links people. Sorry on my mobile so I couldn't post as .gifs.

[3wt]

Lot of good points made on both sides.   I think that Alexander is not the idiot that some people think he is.  

From what Lapham has said Bodine will look excellent one moment and then - inexplicably and not necessarily related to the level of competition - he untracks from his technique and nose dives.   It sounds like he is a very emotional guy and when he loses his composure he just starts mauling which doesn't fly in the NFL.

So the good news is that he can be (as Alexander says) "a helluva player".  And I think the fact that Braham did not get thrown in the mix as early in his career is also a serviceable point.

I struggle with:

1. The fact that Bodine showed as little apparent growth as he did last year
2. The fact that Whit apparently has a problem with his performance
3. The fact that Alexander appeared to throw Whit under the bus
4. The fact that Alexander went about postal on the subject
5. The fact that we did not draft or sign a free agent at a spot that at the very least has questions and where the back up is very poor.   Glascow was available in the 3rd.  Jack Allen  was available as a UFA.  While I can't certify that they did this to give Bodine a sense of confidence I can't think of another legitimate reason why they did not.
6. If they did not get someone as competition for fear of harming his confidence the guy is not mentally ready to compete in the NFL
7. Even if that is NOT the reason I say shame on them for not at least bringing in someone other than a guard who would be a project just to start learning the position.  
   

The only thing wrong they did over the weekend in my opinion.

[yellowxdiscipline]

(05-02-2016, 12:44 PM)3wt Wrote: Lot of good points made on both sides.   I think that Alexander is not the idiot that some people think he is.  

From what Lapham has said Bodine will look excellent one moment and then - inexplicably and not necessarily related to the level of competition - he untracks from his technique and nose dives.   It sounds like he is a very emotional guy and when he loses his composure he just starts mauling which doesn't fly in the NFL.

So the good news is that he can be (as Alexander says) "a helluva player".  And I think the fact that Braham did not get thrown in the mix as early in his career is also a serviceable point.

I struggle with:

1. The fact that Bodine showed as little apparent growth as he did last year
2. The fact that Whit apparently has a problem with his performance
3. The fact that Alexander appeared to throw Whit under the bus
4. The fact that Alexander went about postal on the subject
5. The fact that we did not draft or sign a free agent at a spot that at the very least has questions and where the back up is very poor.   Glascow was available in the 3rd.  Jack Allen  was available as a UFA.  While I can't certify that they did this to give Bodine a sense of confidence I can't think of another legitimate reason why they did not.
6. If they did not get someone as competition for fear of harming his confidence the guy is not mentally ready to compete in the NFL
7. Even if that is NOT the reason I say shame on them for not at least bringing in someone other than a guard who would be a project just to start learning the position.  
   

The only thing wrong they did over the weekend in my opinion.

We should have drafted a Center in the event that Bodine struggles again. If were afraid to damage his psyche and were treating him with kid gloves then hes not our guy. He showed zero improvement last year, and looked worse at times. You don't defend guys like that, you light fires under their asses.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-01-2016, 10:54 AM)fredtoast Wrote: He is standing up for one of his players who is receiving unjust criticism.

That is what good coaches do.

Alexander got defensive because he was asked if Westerman can play center. That's not "unjust" criticism of Bodine. That's Paul with his panties in a bunch. Kinda like when he defended "nasty" Nate Livings.

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2011/8/16/2367139/offensive-line-coach-paul-alexander-defends-guard-nate-livings

[coachmcneil71]

(05-02-2016, 02:48 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Alexander got defensive because he was asked if Westerman can play center. That's not "unjust" criticism of Bodine. That's Paul with his panties in a bunch. Kinda like when he defended "nasty" Nate Livings.

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2011/8/16/2367139/offensive-line-coach-paul-alexander-defends-guard-nate-livings

Well stated and truthful.

[3wt]

(05-02-2016, 02:36 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: We should have drafted a Center in the event that Bodine struggles again. If were afraid to damage his psyche and were treating him with kid gloves then hes not our guy. He showed zero improvement last year, and looked worse at times. You don't defend guys like that, you light fires under their asses.

That is my issue.   Any other position on the field they're going to look at raising the floor of the room.  It's not like TJ Johnson is knocking on the door at the center position and he is a dubious backup.

To me it's irresponsible not to foster better competition and improve your depth.  I know I'm reading into whether they didn't bring someone in because it might threaten Bodine, but I don't see any other logical reason why they did not apparently try.   If Westerman is that guy then great.   But if it's going to take him a year or more to get up to speed with the position I would say he is NOT that guy.

As far as Alexander's rant, I don't think it was just the Westerman question but the constant question by fans and the media as to whether Bodine is competent.   But he did not need to get snide about it and throw his best O Lineman under the bus.  It's not like Whit has been questioning Bodine publicly.

[McC]

(05-02-2016, 03:42 PM)3wt Wrote: That is my issue.   Any other position on the field they're going to look at raising the floor of the room.  It's not like TJ Johnson is knocking on the door at the center position and he is a dubious backup.

To me it's irresponsible not to foster better competition and improve your depth.  I know I'm reading into whether they didn't bring someone in because it might threaten Bodine, but I don't see any other logical reason why they did not apparently try.   If Westerman is that guy then great.   But if it's going to take him a year or more to get up to speed with the position I would say he is NOT that guy.

As far as Alexander's rant, I don't think it was just the Westerman question but the constant question by fans and the media as to whether Bodine is competent.   But he did not need to get snide about it and throw his best O Lineman under the bus.  It's not like Whit has been questioning Bodine publicly.

Well said.  It comes down to this...Are you willing to let one position stand between you and a SB?  The running game goes nowhere because the NT lives in the backfield.  You don't even need to be a coach to see that.

[fredtoast]

(05-02-2016, 03:47 PM)McC Wrote: Well said.  It comes down to this...Are you willing to let one position stand between you and a SB?  The running game goes nowhere because the NT lives in the backfield.  You don't even need to be a coach to see that.

Andre Smith also struggled in run blocking last year.  If Bodine was the entire problem then we would have been more successful running off tackle.

You don't have to be a coach to see that.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-01-2016, 02:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But when I looked up the numbers we are not talking about anything close to half a second.  we are talking about a few hundreths of a second

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/2.1-2.5-Seconds.png

These numbers show that there is only a few hundreths of second difference, but look at what PFF has to say about these numbers

On the other hand, some of the younger, more mobile quarterbacks in the league such as Cam Newton, Russell Wilson, Colin Kaepernick, and even Andrew Luck have much higher times to throw, and it’s not because they’re getting more time from their line, but moreso because they’re either looking to extend plays with their legs, trying to take more downfield shots, or some combination of both.

That chart has been cropped.  Where's the rest of it?

The first column is labeled 2.1-2.5 seconds and lists 22 QBs.  The third column is labeled sacks and there were a total of 64, but only 32 sacks are documented for the 22 QBs listed, so who got the other 32 sacks?  The fourth column is scrambles, there were a total of 2 scrambles, but not one of the 22 QBs listed scrambled, so which QBs scrambled?  Lastly, 2.5 seconds - 2.1 seconds = 0.4 seconds which is pretty damn close to 0.5 seconds.

How the hell can PFF claim these QBs are looking to extend plays with their legs, but not a single one of the 22 QBs listed extended a single play with their legs because according to that chart not a single one of those QBs scrambled a single time?  Just another reason why PFF stats are stupid.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-01-2016, 03:05 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Nick Vigil beat Bodine and Alexander's ass at the same time.

Nick Vigil used Bodine's ass to beat Alexander's ass.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-30-2016, 07:53 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Bullshit is trying to know what coaches see everyday

Andrew Whitworth sees it too......and he's not being defensive about a draft pick he hand selected, he's calling it as he sees it.  PA needs to go if he thinks he can compare Bodine's mediocrity to the play of Richie Braham.


Do you watch the games?  Where does consistent pressure and run stuffing come from?  

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-30-2016, 11:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Let's be honest.

PA is well respected as an O-line coach by the people who matter and only hated by Bengal fans.

the same Bengals fans who hated Justin Smith, Leon Hall, and Andy Dalton.  Tne same Bengal fasn who claimed Whitworth could not handle speed rushers and needed to be moved to guard.

Nope, I like all of those players, and defended Andy to the hilt.....PA just sucks.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-01-2016, 07:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I never forgot that.  The Cowboys didn't have an O-line coach as good as Paul

In 2012 when Livings signed with the Cowboys, Bill Callahan was Dallas' O line coach.  The same coach who had three of his Olinemen voted All Pro in 2014 with the Cowboys.  The same coach who had one Olineman voted All Pro in 2015 with the Redskins.  The same coach who had three Olinemen voted All Pro in 2008 and again in 2009 while with the Jets (same year Peter King named him assistant of the year.)  The same coach who has been promoted to offensive coordinator and head coach.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-01-2016, 02:38 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Thought you were the one in another thread ripping PFF. And anybody that has us ranked #1 in run blocking is nuts.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13867766/andy-dalton-playing-faster-ever-leading-undefeated-cincinnati-bengals-nfl

Andy Dalton was 2nd to Tom Brady in October of last year. 2nd fastest release time as a rookie. And has gotten better. Thanks Tom House.

I would image the release stat takes into account every drop back. So no matter the deep throws. On average we are getting the ball out faster than damn near everybody.

Shhhhiiiiiiitttttttt!!!! He was ripping PFF in this VERY thread!

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-01-2016, 10:26 AM)fredtoast Wrote: PA was giving Mathis starts when he was playing well before his injury in '09.  IN '10 Mathis was a fat slob and did not deserve playing time.  Every other team in ther league saw the exact same thing and that is why Mathis had to take a league minimum contract despite there being years of film on him for every team to watch.  Even Mathis admitted he was out of shape in '10 and he did a video showing himself getting back in shape.

Do you remember the name of the free agent Olineman Paul wanted to sign, but was too obese to pass his physical?

Neither do I.

[Bengal Dude]

Coaches coming to the defense of their players is nothing new, but Paul definitely came off in a negative light on this one. Bodine had a rough rookie year, so it was reasonable to see some improvement in his second year. Instead, we saw no improvement. I think back to Joe Goodberry's Twitter feed from last year. So many times you'd see more negative clips of Bodine than positive. People accused him of being biased. He posted all the positives he could, but the negatives outnumbered the positives.

Can Bodine improve? Absolutely. However, we've seen practically nothing from him to make us think he's our long term starter.

[fredtoast]

(05-02-2016, 04:42 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Do you remember the name of the free agent Olineman Paul wanted to sign, but was too obese to pass his physical?

Neither do I.

Deuce Lutui, but I am not surer Paul was the guy who wanted him.  He went to the Titans and started for them.

But what is your point?  Bill Belichik signed Albert Haynesworth and Ochocinco.

[fredtoast]

(05-02-2016, 04:36 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: In 2012 when Livings signed with the Cowboys, Bill Callahan was Dallas' O line coach.  The same coach who had three of his Olinemen voted All Pro in 2014 with the Cowboys.  The same coach who had one Olineman voted All Pro in 2015 with the Redskins.  The same coach who had three Olinemen voted All Pro in 2008 and again in 2009 while with the Jets (same year Peter King named him assistant of the year.)  The same coach who has been promoted to offensive coordinator and head coach.

I knew he must have been a good coach because he saw how good Livings was.

Livings was injured and placed on IR before he was released before the '13 season.  He started every game he played with the Cowboys before that.  He had knee surgery after the '12 season.

He washed out of the NFL because of injury.

[fredtoast]

(05-02-2016, 04:36 PM)Wyche Wrote: Shhhhiiiiiiitttttttt!!!! He was ripping PFF in this VERY thread!

There O-line rankings are not as flawed as their individual rankings.

Oline rankings do not penalize a unit for playing more snaps.

[fredtoast]

(05-02-2016, 04:26 PM)Wyche Wrote: PA just sucks.

No he does not.

You are wrong.