Looking ahead to 2017 draft

[JungleRock85]

(05-03-2016, 12:37 PM)JungleRock85 Wrote: I am with you on Defensive End for 2017. That is far and away the position I think we need to look to add talent to for that draft class. Even if Hunt or Clarke so some progression this year I still think we have to look toward the future at that position. Dunlap is great but isn't getting any younger while Michael Johnson really hasn't ever been the upcoming FA Michael Johnson from a few years back. I would rank the needs for 2017 a year out as likely being....

1. Defensive End - discussed above

2. Safety - This need could dissolve by this time next year if Shawn Williams has a good season and is re-signed or if Derron Smith shows promise and Josh Shaw starts becoming a Safety/Corner hybrid that I think he could be. But for now it still has some question marks so I list it as a big need.

3. Offensive Tackle - This is my sneaky need for next draft. Whitworth may be gone after this upcoming season and that leaves Ogbuehi and Fisher who are expected to do a lot for us but are unproven for now. Aside from them what will the Bengals have at the position??? Winston is likely to retire or need replaced after this season as well. I would expect us to use a mid round selection, especially with so many comp. picks expected to replenish our depth at this spot.

4. Cornerback - This should be another depth selection. Kirk is likely gone with WJ III drafted so that could leave Pac, Jackson, Dennard, Shaw on the roster which is still a lot of talent but they will need to fill out the last couple spots at this position.

5. Running Back - This depends on Hill bouncing back (think he will) and if we are able to sign Gio back. Even with both guys on the roster it may be a good idea to draft some depth in the event Burkhead or Peerman are gone.

Take Safety off the list of needs. As mentioned in my comments that need could disappear and it has happened sooner than I thought. Shawn Williams has been re-signed AND Shaw is getting snaps at Safety this offseason.

[3wt]

(05-15-2016, 03:39 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I agree with most of what you say.  However, we all know that the Bengals haven't put a high draft pick value on the Safety position, in recent years.  They do, however consider DE to be a "premium" position, just below QB, OT, CB, and WR.  And let's not forget how screwed the team would be if Dunlap or Johnson were to go down with any sort of serious injury..

This is the main point.

[*psychdoctor*]

Most won't want to hear this:
1-cb: yes, another cb early in the 2017. Why? if they move Shaw to safety and Kirkpatrick walks, they have WJ3, Jones, Dennard (who seems to get injured). I think they will draft another cb next year early

2-DE: Johnson isn't the same. They need a stud DE probably round 1-2.

3-OT: Whit cannot go forever and Fisher needs to show more. If they cannot extend Z, then Guard/Center as well.

4-Linebacker: Although Dansby, Rey M, Burfict, Vigil, Dawson, and V. Rey are solid, I could see them drafting a Linebacker if Flowers doesn't show more.

5-Kicker: Yes, they need to get new kicker like two years ago. Nugent is rated in bottom tier for kickers in the league

6-WR/RB: either. If Hill cannot hold on the ball, then a RB may be needed. Depending on Boyd and Cores, another WR.

[Luvnit2]

(05-03-2016, 07:53 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: It doesn't work quite that way. The initial process involves ranking players gained and players lost via FA. Highest paid players (average annual value) gained cancel out highest lost. We didn't sign any this offseason that i can think of (players cut don't count), so that part can be ignored. A team can have a maximum of 4 comp picks, and no more than one in the 3rd round. 

Then they are ranked against the rest of the league. Something like the highest paid 5% qualify for 3rd rounders. This means guys that get paid like Osweiler, Norman, etc will earn 3rd rounders. None of our players signed for more than about $8 mil/yr so that means a 3rd is far fetched. Playing time and postseason honors also factor in, but not nearly as much as pay and total players signed/lost. Sanu will be our 2nd highest pick at about $6.5mil/yr (not smith) because of the salary, then Reggie about $4.25 mil/yr, and Smith $3.5 mil/yr. Lamur would be next but that would put us over 4 picks. 

Edit:

http://overthecap.com/compensatory-draft-picks-cancellation-chart/

here is a link, if you scroll down to the bengals they also have our players listed for rounds 4-7. They also have Gilberry who I forgot about, but he won't get us one either.

TY for the info. I may be wrong, but once you get past round 3 (only maximum of one 3rd for each team), then they also add one or more players together if a team has lost more than the maximum 4 players they can get compensated. So in Bengals case, they may get a little higher as they lost more than 4 guys. Also, Hall may sign for 4 million plus adding one more player to our mix. ne thing for sure, we will get 4 compensary picks in 2017 so we will have 11 picks unless we traded for more or less in previous traded.

[StLucieBengal]

We draft rd 1 corners every other year

So we should be safe next year.

Even if Boyd is good I could see WR since we need quality depth.

I don't see OT. They will at least give fisher a shot at RT before they draft another.

[NATI BENGALS]

Go all in for Christian McCaffery if Gio leaves.

Ill take white Barry Sanders all day

[Hammerstripes]

IF the roster stays the same as it is now, here is what I would be looking at as our top needs:

1. Center. Alexander may jabber on and on about the witch hunt, but the reality is that Fisher and Westerman were taking snaps at C recently. That speaks volumes to me. I always look at who the worst starter on this team is - and Bodine is that at the moment.

2. WR. Outside of AJ, there isn't a big time round 1 type of talent in the group. Hopefully that changes, but it never hurts to have a stable of guys that can play.

3. LT. I just don't see Fisher being the LT of the future. I also don't see Ced moving over to the left side once he gets going. This is too vital of a position to not have a stud in the waiting.

4. RB. Again, this could change, but with where the roster is right now and the type of season Hill had, I wouldn't be afraid to draft one early next year.

[Beaker]

(05-26-2016, 02:00 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: 3.  LT.  I just don't see Fisher being the LT of the future.  I also don't see Ced moving over to the left side once he gets going.  This is too vital of a position to not have a stud in the waiting.

Ogbuehi to LT, Fisher to RT.

[Hammerstripes]

(05-31-2016, 10:13 AM)Beaker Wrote: Ogbuehi to LT, Fisher to RT.

I just don't see them moving Ogbuehi to LT once he starts at RT.  

[NATI BENGALS]

(06-01-2016, 12:23 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I just don't see them moving Ogbuehi to LT once he starts at RT.  

He is a prototype LT.

[*ochocincos*]

(06-01-2016, 03:35 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: He is a prototype LT.

He is. Some people are just pessimistic because he wasn't a stellar LT in the one year he attempted it at Texas A&M. Some people feel neither Fisher nor Ogbuehi will become a good NFL LT, but rather stud RTs or OGs. And the Bengals may decide after this year to actually draft a prototypical AND proven LT in next year's draft if Ogbuehi and Fisher aren't developing as the coaches have hoped.

[leonardfan40]

(06-02-2016, 11:30 AM)ochocincos Wrote: He is. Some people are just pessimistic because he wasn't a stellar LT in the one year he attempted it at Texas A&M. Some people feel neither Fisher nor Ogbuehi will become a good NFL LT, but rather stud RTs or OGs. And the Bengals may decide after this year to actually draft a prototypical AND proven LT in next year's draft if Ogbuehi and Fisher aren't developing as the coaches have hoped.

There is no such thing as proven in the draft. Until they do it in the NFL they're all unproven

[*ochocincos*]

(06-02-2016, 11:35 AM)leonardfan40 Wrote: There is no such thing as proven in the draft. Until they do it in the NFL they're all unproven

Oh come on, you knew what I meant. I meant proven as in showed to be top-notch LT in college compared to someone who was just mediocre at LT in college but likely projects better to OG or RT for the NFL.

[Bengal Dude]

(06-02-2016, 11:30 AM)ochocincos Wrote: He is. Some people are just pessimistic because he wasn't a stellar LT in the one year he attempted it at Texas A&M. Some people feel neither Fisher nor Ogbuehi will become a good NFL LT, but rather stud RTs or OGs. And the Bengals may decide after this year to actually draft a prototypical AND proven LT in next year's draft if Ogbuehi and Fisher aren't developing as the coaches have hoped.

Considering how PA has built him up, I fully expect Ced to get at least 2 full seasons at LT no matter how he looks.

[Hammerstripes]

(06-02-2016, 11:30 AM)ochocincos Wrote: He is. Some people are just pessimistic because he wasn't a stellar LT in the one year he attempted it at Texas A&M. Some people feel neither Fisher nor Ogbuehi will become a good NFL LT, but rather stud RTs or OGs. And the Bengals may decide after this year to actually draft a prototypical AND proven LT in next year's draft if Ogbuehi and Fisher aren't developing as the coaches have hoped.

I'm not pessimistic about him making the move, but if he plays a couple years at a high level at RT, then I don't think it would be smart to shuffle the line and move him to the right side.

All this would be moot if Fisher proves he can handle the left side.

[Bengal Dude]

(06-08-2016, 01:15 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I'm not pessimistic about him making the move, but if he plays a couple years at a high level at RT, then I don't think it would be smart to shuffle the line and move him to the right side.

All this would be moot if Fisher proves he can handle the left side.

I somewhat agree. If Ced looks to be an outstanding RT, then I don't see the need to move him. However, Marvin and PA basically said that this guy is the LT of the future for us. I imagine they're going to move him over at some point.

[XenoMorph]

(05-03-2016, 02:54 PM)WrongVerb Wrote: Age 30 is ancient in football years and Dunlap gets there in a few years. Grabbing his replacement in 2017 insures a smooth transition going forward.

and more complaining about drafting a guy in the 1st who doesn't start right away.

[Bengal Dude]

(06-23-2016, 02:13 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: and more complaining about drafting a guy in the 1st who doesn't start right away.

Considering how much we rotate our DL, I don't think there'd be that much complaining.

[BoomerFan]

Here's my thinking (assumed 1 3rd and 1 4th comp pick):

1 DE -- Dunlap may not be old but it takes a few years to get good at the position and why not have depth and players ready for the future. At the very least I don't anticipate us re-signing Hunt (hope he proves us all wrong this year), so you're going to need a player and it is a premium position worth spending (hopefully) a late 1st round pick on.

2 WR -- A month ago I would have agreed with the person above who said we need a speed WR. Now Core looks to be a nice surprise but we could still use more talent at this position. Boyd will also be a part of our future, but Brandon Lafell is actually 29 so he's probably not a long term solution. Building for a few years out, you get another quality starter here, possibly another speed guy who can return kicks or punts.

3a Linebacker -- Hopefully we're turning this position around. Burfict is obviously a pro-bowler and still pretty young to boot. If Dawson and Vigil really become strong starters and we keep Flowers around, we'll still eventually need replacements for V. Rey and Rey M. (28 and 29) and in the shorter run, Karlos Dansby (probably plays for two years with us). I think we'll probably reshuffle things so that Vigil or Burfict are in the middle so you're more likely looking at us picking an OLB -- hopefully one who can pass rush. That said, we've gotten burned picking LBs in the 3rd before. Donte Moch and ILB Rod Muckleroy didn't pan out (though the latter was due to injury) so we may shy away from picking this way. OTOH Guenther probably has a lot of sway now and he used to be an LB coach so maybe he can find a gem who's fallen here.

3b Interior OLine -- Even with the Christian Westerman pick we know Winston isn't here for too much longer and Zeitler might not get re-signed. Trey Hopkins will be on the roster but I see him as another depth player. And yes, picking someone who could play C/G might give us a possible B plan if we decide we haven't seen enough from Bodine by the end of his contract. If we do re-sign Zeitler, TJ Johnson's contract will be expiring and maybe a draftee can take that spot.  

4a Running Back -- I love Cedric Peerman and technically he's an RB in name only at this point (and as a backup), but 29 means he may start to lose a step on special teams soon too. Of course Tasker was still making pro-bowls at 35 and he was a gunner instead of just a coverage guy (hard to know who takes more abuse but probably the gunner?) but who knows if other players can last that long. Both Ced and Rex Burkhead have their contracts set to expire next year, and Hill a year after that. One would assume Hill's re-signing is a no brainer unless he asks for stupid money but maybe you can pressure him a bit by replacing either Ced or Rex with new blood (probably Ced as Rex has mos def contributed to this offense and is younger).

4b Quarterback -- AJ McCarron has been a great backup but because of that he'll be paid more by some other needy team. Find another QB who can be a project or wow unexpectedly if Dalton ever misses time again.

5 DE #2 -- We like to pick multiples of a position in a draft and I believe DE is that strong of a need. Maybe it means we keep 5 DEs for a year. That's fine, it is a very important position.

6 Backup OT -- As someone said above, with Whit and Winston soon to be gone, even if you have your starters in Ced O. and Jake F., you need some depth. No need to go super early as I think those guys will work out but a backup will be needed.

7 Defensive Back/Special Teams -- Probably a CB but maybe one who is bulky enough to play safety. Or rather, if they are bulky we are drafting a special teams coverage guy, if they are lanky/fast then he's a returner. Either way this is all about special teams, though yes, we will have an opening at CB soon. I think we'll probably re-sign Dre K (he really is underrated by PFT and people around here) but Adam Jones isn't gonna play at this level forever. And Chris Lewis-Harris will have his contract expiring next year.

I think the theme here is building for a future. When the team is run well and working we don't have immediate pressing needs that will make or break us. So you're drafting for 3-5 years down the road, which is the best possible situation. And the other theme is Special Teams. Even when I didn't mention it explicitly, you're probably looking for guys with Special Teams upside at with more than a few of these picks.

[J24]

(05-10-2016, 12:28 AM)J24 Wrote: Looking ahead we need to get more bodies on the Defensive Line and we need to become more athletic at LB

As it stands today
1.) A defensive End to replace MJ- I do not believe in either Hunt or Clarke right now
2.) A deep threat at WR- I think Lafell will be good this season but he is 30 so drafting a replacement should be a priority.
3.)A Defensive End to replace Gilberry - at this point Hardison and Williams have shown nothing in the regular season to show they are capable of handling the nickle DT role.
4.)Speed Rusher - we don't have a guy on the roster who can just fly at end and get to the QB. 
5.)Corner/Safety/Nickleback/Lb- I actually have the perfect guy in mind Kevin King from Washington 6-3 guy who can play in the slot.