WTF, Joe?

[Harmening]

As many as six Joe Paterno assistants personally witnessed Jerry Sandusky abusing children, NBC News revealed today. That report comes on the heels of testimony given in Penn State’s lawsuit against its insurer revealed this week, alleging Paterno knew of Sandusky molesting children as early as 1976.
Sandusky is currently serving 30 to 60 years in prison after being convicted of molesting ten children, dating back to 1994. More alleged acts dating prior to those brought by the prosecution have emerged in the insurance lawsuit, and now sources tell NBC that a former Penn State assistant witnessed a Sandusky incident “in the late 1970s,” while three other coaches witnessed incidents in the 1990s.

[xxlt]

Rep to Harmening. And :heart:

Ugly story, but an important one. And as horrible as it is to acknowledge, I will bet our national debt Jerry Sandusky was not and is not the only guy in America doing what Jerry Sandusky did and there are people around many of them ignoring or covering for them, just like at Penn State.

Talk to your friends about this, I beg those who are reading this. Read about it. See movies like Spotlight. Will it make you angry? Almost certainly. Will it make you cry? Probably. Will it make you physically sick? There is a good chance. Do it anyway. Kids need you talking about this issue, and demanding our culture change.

Thank you for those who will take on this challenge.

[fredtoast]

This may sound bad, but if some one told me that they caught my best friend molesting a child I would not believe them. How many of you honestly believe that your best fiend is capable of something like that?

But if i heard it different times from different sources I would hope that I would not keep ignoring it.

[xxlt]

(05-07-2016, 11:53 AM)fredtoast Wrote: This may sound bad, but if some one told me that they caught my best friend molesting a child I would not believe them.  How many of you honestly believe that your best fiend is capable of something like that?

But if i heard it different times from different sources I would hope that I would not keep ignoring it.

This is an honest statement and part of the problem. It is hard to imagine anyone raping a child, much less a friend. But, it is even harder for a child to disclose it happened, and highly unlikely (though not impossible) that a child or an adult would make a false allegation of such conduct. This is why it is so important for people to learn about and talk about sexual abuse of children and how to prevent it and how to handle it when it has happened and it comes to light.

[fredtoast]

(05-07-2016, 12:38 PM)xxlt Wrote:  it is even harder for a child to disclose it happened,

The child will almost never report it because they are convinced that they are just as guilty as the perpetrator.  

Child molesters almost always convince the children to do it without threats of force or violence.  Once they get into this situation the victim will not report it because he is afraid it will be assumed that he consented.

When Query caught Sandusky in the shower with a child the child did not feel like he was being saved.  He felt like he was being caught doing something wrong just like Sandusky.

And this is why it can mess up kids for life.  It is not just about the physical abuse.   It is more about the mental manipulation they go through at such a young age.

[Harmening]

I can't believe Paterno allegedly didn't go to authorities or higher ups of course or pursue this further. But even if you say he did what he should have, do you keep someone on you're staff that's been allegedly abiding kids on MULTIPLE occasions?

He alone has the power to make sure Sandusky wasn't around the school without evidence. He could and should have fired him the second there was a second allegation. I'm not giving him a pass on one, just I can reasonably see a situation where there is an allegation and no evidence, so one could think that it could be made up. But 2, 3? Come on its simple, get rid of the guy.

That's on Paterno. He had the power to hire and fire staff, and it sounds like there could have been multiple allegations long before Sandusky had any kind of tenure. Disgusting.

[xxlt]

(05-07-2016, 12:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The child will almost never report it because they are convinced that they are just as guilty as the perpetrator.  

Child molesters almost always convince the children to do it without threats of force or violence.  Once they get into this situation the victim will not report it because he is afraid it will be assumed that he consented.

When Query caught Sandusky in the shower with a child the child did not feel like he was being saved.  He felt like he was being caught doing something wrong just like Sandusky.

And this is why it can mess up kids for life.  It is not just about the physical abuse.   It is more about the mental manipulation they go through at such a young age.

Fred and I have disagreed on many a point over the years, and agreed on a few too. I will say the above post is 100% dead on correct, and I appreciate the accurate assessment.

[xxlt]

(05-07-2016, 01:44 PM)Harmening Wrote: I can't believe Paterno allegedly didn't go to authorities or higher ups of course or pursue this further. But even if you say he did what he should have, do you keep someone on you're staff that's been allegedly abiding kids on MULTIPLE occasions?

He alone has the power to make sure Sandusky wasn't around the school without evidence. He could and should have fired him the second there was a second allegation.  I'm not giving him a pass on one, just I can reasonably see a situation where there is an allegation and no evidence, so one could think that it could be made up.  But 2, 3?  Come on its simple, get rid of the guy.

That's on Paterno.  He had the power to hire and fire staff, and it sounds like there could have been multiple allegations long before Sandusky had any kind of tenure. Disgusting.

Firing is not enough, and in fact should not be the first step. The first step is reporting the allegation to police and/or social services. From there, if you want to keep the person on while the investigation is progressing, o.k., but make damn sure he is never alone with a child, a player, or a student.

Hell, if he had done that and Sandusky got probation (as the vast majority of sex offenders - including pedophiles - do) and Sandusky was in a sex offender treatment program I still wouldn't have a problem with retaining him. In fact, it could have been a good thing - because the people at Penn State would have known to watch Sandusky and not leave him alone with children. This would be far better than firing him and he goes and takes a job somewhere else and coaches at a grade, middle, or high school and nobody knows. That is what the Catholic Church did for years - just move predators when they were caught, and never report them (and actually they did not even fire them just reassigned them). But Jo Pa and PSU did NOTHING to protect kids. And they are not the only ones.

[Harmening]

(05-07-2016, 04:19 PM)xxlt Wrote: Firing is not enough, and in fact should not be the first step. The first step is reporting the allegation to police and/or social services. From there, if you want to keep the person on while the investigation is progressing, o.k., but make damn sure he is never alone with a child, a player, or a student.

Hell, if he had done that and Sandusky got probation (as the vast majority of sex offenders - including pedophiles - do) and Sandusky was in a sex offender treatment program I still wouldn't have a problem with retaining him. In fact, it could have been a good thing - because the people at Penn State would have known to watch Sandusky and not leave him alone with children. This would be far better than firing him and he goes and takes a job somewhere else and coaches at a grade, middle, or high school and nobody knows. That is what the Catholic Church did for years - just move predators when they were caught, and never report them (and actually they did not even fire them just reassigned them). But Jo Pa and PSU did NOTHING to protect kids. And they are not the only ones.

Exactly, and Paterno continued to allow that sick bastard to hold his football camps there for years and years.
Makes me ill.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

Seems like they should pass a law not allowing men into bathrooms.

[*bfine32*]

(05-08-2016, 11:18 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Seems like they should pass a law not allowing men into bathrooms.

This post supports my opinion on the bathroom/shower matter, but that would be a fine discussion for the PnR forum.

As to the OP the sick bastard should have been executed. Also I always found it strange that Joe Pa died right after this all began to come to light. Makes me wonder if he didn't "assist" his death.

[SteelCitySouth]

(05-08-2016, 11:36 AM)bfine32 Wrote: This post supports my opinion on the bathroom/shower matter, but that would be a fine discussion for the PnR forum.

As to the OP the sick bastard should have been executed. Also I always found it strange that Joe Pa died right after this all began to come to light. Makes me wonder if he didn't "assist" his death.

It's possible.  He was pretty sick to begin with and the stress of all this probably is the factor that assisted in his death.  

[fredtoast]

(05-08-2016, 11:36 AM)bfine32 Wrote:  Also I always found it strange that Joe Pa died right after this all began to come to light. Makes me wonder if he didn't "assist" his death.

I have considered this also.

But Bear Bryant also dies less than a year after he retired.  So maybe these old guys just don't retire until they are ready to die.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-09-2016, 01:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have considered this also.

But Bear Bryant also dies less than a year after he retired.  So maybe these old guys just don't retire until they are ready to die.

I heard Paterno didn't want to retire because he has afraid he would die shortly afterwards like Bryant.  I think some people who make their career their purspose in life don't do well in retirement once they give it up if there isn't something to take its place.

[basballguy]

The big reason why I don't buy this is because instead of calling the cops they called PSU? Ya ok.

[Harmening]

Considering the school could have lost their accreditation over this, I thought the program got off very light. Punishing them again I think would be double jeopardy, but what's so frustrating in all of this is how the school has barely even shown remorse for what happened and that's what angers people including myself more than anything. Knowing that they had made settlements with people going as far back as 1971 and still seeing Penn State stick with this hard line approach of denying that Paterno and company did anything wrong keeps right in with that theme.

The one silver lining is that this cult of Paterno probably ended the day this story broke and if that is true Happy Valley will eventually get over it. Its just going to take a lot longer than they would like. For anyone old enough to remember it who's not a Penn State fan, this will always be the first thing that comes to mind when the words Penn State football are mentioned and there is nothing Penn State or anyone else can do to change that.

[JS-Steelerfan]

(05-10-2016, 02:36 PM)Harmening Wrote: Considering the school could have lost their accreditation over this, I thought the program got off very light. Punishing them again I think would be double jeopardy, but what's so frustrating in all of this is how the school has barely even shown remorse for what happened and that's what angers people including myself more than anything. Knowing that they had made settlements with people going as far back as 1971 and still seeing Penn State stick with this hard line approach of denying that Paterno and company did anything wrong keeps right in with that theme.

The one silver lining is that this cult of Paterno probably ended the day this story broke and if that is true Happy Valley will eventually get over it. Its just going to take a lot longer than they would like. For anyone old enough to remember it who's not a Penn State fan, this will always be the first thing that comes to mind when the words Penn State football are mentioned and there is nothing Penn State or anyone else can do to change that.

As someone who lives an hour from Happy Valley, I'll tell you not to count on it.  People believe what they want to believe, and loyalty can create powerful delusions.  

[xxlt]

(05-10-2016, 02:56 PM)JS-Steelerfan Wrote: As someone who lives an hour from Haply Valley, I'll tell you not to count on it.  People believe what they want to believe, and loyalty can create powerful delusions.  

Exhibit A: the Roman Catholic Church.