Best Teams on Paper in the AFCN

[mroudfly]

I'm out here in Melbourne, AU and have to settle for Australian Rules football and Rugby every weekend, so I seriously need some NFL talk at the moment (move back to the states in August - perfect timing ).

Based on the current state of rosters in the AFC North - just wanted get some perspectives on how teams compare on paper (obviously this is pointless BS fun):

Offense
1.) Pittsburgh Steelers - The three B's healthy will be very difficult to stop. Really just want Ben to retire...
2.) Cincinnati Bengals - Dalton back to being healthy. AJG, Gio, Hill (back to normal hopefully), Eifert, Boyd...weapons weapons weapons.
3.) Baltimore Ravens - Steve Smith Sr., Aiken and a healthy Perriman will be interesting to watch.
4.) Cleveland Browns - drafted a million WRs and now have RGIII....

Defense
1.) Cincinnati Bengals - One of the best scoring defenses last year - lose Nelson, but add lots of new weapons through FA/Draft (WJ3, Billings, Vigil, KD..)
2.) Baltimore Ravens - Allowed over 25ppg last year, but with Suggs back, the wave of rookie pash rushers, and the likes of smith/weddle/webb - they should bounce back this year.
3.) Pittsburgh Steelers - Everyone ripped on them last year, but statistically they weren't horrible...Added new weapons as well and a year of experience for the young guys.
4.) Cleveland Browns - ...............someone help me here

Special Teams
1.) Baltimore Ravens - Justin Tucker is automatic, and an auto-touchback machine...Steve Smith Sr. as PR again at his age?
2.) Pittsburgh Steelers - Figured out the K position finally; AB returning punts is always scary...Archer was a bust;
3.) Cincinnati Bengals - Searching for a Tate replacement (although he's safe); Pacman is solid PR; Huber had a somewhat off year statistically, and Nugent seems to be trending in the wrong direction
4.) Cleveland Browns - Average K/P; lost their punt returner in Benjamin

Overall
1.) Bengals - playoff bound
2.) Steelers - playoff bound
3.) Ravens - playoff bound
4.) Browns - maybe LeBron will try out for TE someday

Always interested to see everyone else's thoughts...Obviously a bit homerish - on paper 3/4 teams look very solid (sorry Browns). I can see the Bengals, Steelers and Ravens making it out in '16, especially with lots of question marks in the AFC (Jets, Broncos, etc...).

Cheers

[GMDino]

(05-16-2016, 02:45 AM)mroudfly Wrote: I'm out here in Melbourne, AU and have to settle for Australian Rules football and Rugby every weekend, so I seriously need some NFL talk at the moment (move back to the states in August - perfect timing ).

Based on the current state of rosters in the AFC North - just wanted get some perspectives on how teams compare on paper (obviously this is pointless BS fun):

Offense
1.) Pittsburgh Steelers - The three B's healthy will be very difficult to stop. Really just want Ben to retire...
2.) Cincinnati Bengals - Dalton back to being healthy. AJG, Gio, Hill (back to normal hopefully), Eifert, Boyd...weapons weapons weapons.
3.) Baltimore Ravens - Steve Smith Sr., Aiken and a healthy Perriman will be interesting to watch.
4.) Cleveland Browns - drafted a million WRs and now have RGIII....

Defense
1.) Cincinnati Bengals - One of the best scoring defenses last year - lose Nelson, but add lots of new weapons through FA/Draft (WJ3, Billings, Vigil, KD..)
2.) Baltimore Ravens - Allowed over 25ppg last year, but with Suggs back, the wave of rookie pash rushers, and the likes of smith/weddle/webb - they should bounce back this year.
3.) Pittsburgh Steelers - Everyone ripped on them last year, but statistically they weren't horrible...Added new weapons as well and a year of experience for the young guys.
4.) Cleveland Browns - ...............someone help me here

Special Teams
1.) Baltimore Ravens - Justin Tucker is automatic, and an auto-touchback machine...Steve Smith Sr. as PR again at his age?
2.) Pittsburgh Steelers - Figured out the K position finally; AB returning punts is always scary...Archer was a bust;
3.) Cincinnati Bengals - Searching for a Tate replacement (although he's safe); Pacman is solid PR; Huber had a somewhat off year statistically, and Nugent seems to be trending in the wrong direction
4.) Cleveland Browns - Average K/P; lost their punt returner in Benjamin

Overall
1.) Bengals - playoff bound
2.) Steelers - playoff bound
3.) Ravens - playoff bound
4.) Browns - maybe LeBron will try out for TE someday

Always interested to see everyone else's thoughts...Obviously a bit homerish - on paper 3/4 teams look very solid (sorry Browns). I can see the Bengals, Steelers and Ravens making it out in '16, especially with lots of question marks in the AFC (Jets, Broncos, etc...).

Cheers

Pretty fair assessment in my book.

So Bengals fans will probably rip you a new one.  

Very hard to guess what a team will do in May.  Way back in 2006 my boss at the time and I were talking about how good the Steelers looked in camp and how unstoppable they were.

Then they went 8-8 and Cowher was gone.

Good post.

[6andcounting]

Good thread; fair assessments. I don't disagree with any of it.


The Steelers front 7 is more than good enough. Their only knock is that they couldn't always get consistent pressure just rushing 4. It's certainly an issue beyond one player, but Jarvis Jones' play is a big reason for this problem.

The issue with the defense is the secondary. In a league where you need 3 competent corners, the Steelers had one last year. Blake was statistically, by far, the worst corner in the league last year. I haven't seen numbers for it, but I'm guessing his numbers would show he's been the worst starting corner the league has seen in a long time. If for no other reason than a coach would bench a starting corner this bad and replace him with anyone (literally anyone, the nose tackle, the mascot, someone from the stands), instead of continuing to let him start for the remainder of the season.

The 2nd round pick from last year and our 1st round pick from this year will probably compete for the starting spot. Statistically, it would be about impossible for them to be worse than Blake, so some level of improvement is coming. How much of an improvement is the question. The steelers were a fumble on offense from making the AFC Championship game last year with Blake at corner. If the team can overcome that poor of a secondary to get us that far, any improvement at all in the secondary will make all the difference.

[Beaker]

(05-16-2016, 10:18 AM)6andcounting Wrote: The steelers were a fumble on offense from making the AFC Championship game last year with Blake at corner.

Ironically, a fumble on offense was the reason they made the second round of the playoffs too. The Bengals offense.

[BmorePat87]

Hmmm, Ravens had a higher ranked offense than the Bengals last season despite their starting QB, RB, 4 of their top 5 WRs, TE, and half their line being on the IR. This was before the Bengals receiving corp was gutted.

Don't sell that offense short.

[*jason*]

(05-16-2016, 06:09 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Hmmm, Ravens had a higher ranked offense than the Bengals last season despite their starting QB, RB, 4 of their top 5 WRs, TE, and half their line being on the IR. This was before the Bengals receiving corp was gutted.

Don't sell that offense short.

Don't sell the standings short.

[JS-Steelerfan]

(05-16-2016, 05:50 PM)Beaker Wrote: Ironically, a fumble on offense was the reason they made the second round of the playoffs too. The Bengals offense.

You didn't need that last sentence.  

[SunsetBengal]

When you look at improvement across the division, you just can't say enough about those Steelers and Ravens. I mean, both of those clubs should be world beaters, come opening day. Sure, the Bengals won the division last year, but they'll be lucky to get a score or two, versus those behemoths this year.

[BFritz21]

(05-16-2016, 05:50 PM)Beaker Wrote: Ironically, a fumble on offense was the reason they made the second round of the playoffs too. The Bengals offense.

With our second string QB, which I'd say is a better testament to a team's quality than having to play with a bad corner.

[mroudfly]

(05-16-2016, 06:09 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Hmmm, Ravens had a higher ranked offense than the Bengals last season despite their starting QB, RB, 4 of their top 5 WRs, TE, and half their line being on the IR. This was before the Bengals receiving corp was gutted.

Don't sell that offense short.

Higher Ranked overall offense how so? Are you looking just at yards/game? Just trying to understand how you came to this conclusion. The Bengals averaged fewer yards per game, but we also had about the best starting field position average in the league - so we didn't have to travel too far to score...Hell the Bengals had 6 or 7 drives start closer than their opponents 20 yard line.

BAL - 267 yds/game passing; 92 yds/game rushing;
CIN - 245 yds/game passing; 113 yds/game rushing;

So yes, Baltimore average more yards/game, but they were probably starting on their own 20 or so on average. With the Bengals takeaways, punt returns, etc. - many of our games we were averaging a starting spot close to the 50...

BAL - 30.11 Offyards/drive
CIN - 32.7 Offyards/drive

BAL - 20.5 ppg
CIN - 26.2 ppg

I'm not trying to sell the offense short - your defense did you in last year. Just trying to figure out your argument statistically. With the eye test the Bengals were loads better last year. This year I would assume they will both be very competitive - just depending on whether SSsr is back to normal form and Perriman isn't a bust.

[StLucieBengal]

When is the last time the Ravens drafted a WR and he was elite?

I don't see them being better than 8-8/9-7

It will be the steelers and bengals again fighting it out. The steelers will lose to at least 3 teams they have zero business losing. Plus splitting with Cincy and probably Baltimore.

I see them around 10-6. Losing Bryant will hurt more than everyone thinks. And who knows if Bell can make it a whole season. He has Barry Foster's knees.

[BmorePat87]

(05-16-2016, 09:06 PM)mroudfly Wrote: Higher Ranked overall offense how so? Are you looking just at yards/game? Just trying to understand how you came to this conclusion. The Bengals averaged fewer yards per game, but we also had about the best starting field position average in the league - so we didn't have to travel too far to score...Hell the Bengals had 6 or 7 drives start closer than their opponents 20 yard line.

BAL - 267 yds/game passing; 92 yds/game rushing;
CIN - 245 yds/game passing; 113 yds/game rushing;

So yes, Baltimore average more yards/game, but they were probably starting on their own 20 or so on average. With the Bengals takeaways, punt returns, etc. - many of our games we were averaging a starting spot close to the 50...

BAL - 30.11 Offyards/drive
CIN - 32.7 Offyards/drive

BAL - 20.5 ppg
CIN - 26.2 ppg

I'm not trying to sell the offense short - your defense did you in last year. Just trying to figure out your argument statistically. With the eye test the Bengals were loads better last year. This year I would assume they will both be very competitive - just depending on whether SSsr is back to normal form and Perriman isn't a bust.

The problem is a lot of those same stats rely on the defense as well. As you admitted, the Ravens defense was shit for the first half of the season. If we use the metric used universally for ranking offenses, the Ravens ranked higher. There are metrics we can use to show the Bengals offense was better.

Point being, the Ravens had a franchise best offense in 2014 and then saw half of that offense on the IR the next year, and they still ranked higher than the Bengals with regards to total yards. In other categories they trailed, but considering that, the losses the Bengals had compared to the Ravens having a fresh squad would suggest that this is a lot more competitive than those initial rankings in the thread may suggest. 

And, yea, Perriman being healthy is a maybe, but so is relying on two rookie receivers to fill the wholes great veterans left.

I agree, though, the Ravens, Bengals, and Steelers should all have competitive offenses this season.

[BFritz21]

(05-17-2016, 01:25 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The problem is a lot of those same stats rely on the defense as well. As you admitted, the Ravens defense was shit for the first half of the season. If we use the metric used universally for ranking offenses, the Ravens ranked higher. There are metrics we can use to show the Bengals offense was better.

Point being, the Ravens had a franchise best offense in 2014 and then saw half of that offense on the IR the next year, and they still ranked higher than the Bengals with regards to total yards. In other categories they trailed, but considering that, the losses the Bengals had compared to the Ravens having a fresh squad would suggest that this is a lot more competitive than those initial rankings in the thread may suggest. 

And, yea, Perriman being healthy is a maybe, but so is relying on two rookie receivers to fill the wholes great veterans left.

I agree, though, the Ravens, Bengals, and Steelers should all have competitive offenses this season.

Great?!  You're using exaggeration to try and make a point.  Sanu and MLJ were average here, maybe above average, but they also benefited from AJ lining up across from them and drawing off coverage.

Furthermore, you meant Boyd and Core, which Boyd is a second round pick, so not just some scrub, and Core was overlooked because he played behind Treadwell.  However, even ignoring that, you conveniently left out Lafell, who has a solid resume´.

[mroudfly]

(05-17-2016, 01:25 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The problem is a lot of those same stats rely on the defense as well. As you admitted, the Ravens defense was shit for the first half of the season. If we use the metric used universally for ranking offenses, the Ravens ranked higher. There are metrics we can use to show the Bengals offense was better.

Point being, the Ravens had a franchise best offense in 2014 and then saw half of that offense on the IR the next year, and they still ranked higher than the Bengals with regards to total yards. In other categories they trailed, but considering that, the losses the Bengals had compared to the Ravens having a fresh squad would suggest that this is a lot more competitive than those initial rankings in the thread may suggest. 

And, yea, Perriman being healthy is a maybe, but so is relying on two rookie receivers to fill the wholes great veterans left.

I agree, though, the Ravens, Bengals, and Steelers should all have competitive offenses this season.

I can see your point with the yards/gm argument, but I guess for me the eye test and the points/gm yds/drv are what I typically look at... Seems that both teams will be relying on rookie receivers (Perriman from a physical standpoint is basically a rookie - I know he has been learning the system for over a year, but playing the game will take time to adjust I imagine). Also, because I don't personally know too many Ravens fans, do you see/expect Maxx Williams breaking out this year? I'm interested to see how Max Williams/Benjamin Watson duo will work this year for you guys - It'll be nice for you to have Williams learning/playing alongside Watson. Watson has all my respect - one of the best guys in the NFL IMO.

Also, do you think your running game will step it up? I know you had OL injuries last year, but it seemed Forsett/Allen couldn't get a whole lot going - and then Forsett had the arm injury in week 11 or 12. Obviously the OL injuries/lack of production are intertwined, but do you think the Ravens have enough RB talent this year? If Forsett can come back with the same 2014 swagger it will be interesting, but as a RB 30 years old isn't exactly youthful anymore...

Curious to hear your take.

[BmorePat87]

(05-17-2016, 02:11 AM)mroudfly Wrote: I can see your point with the yards/gm argument, but I guess for me the eye test and the points/gm yds/drv are what I typically look at... Seems that both teams will be relying on rookie receivers (Perriman from a physical standpoint is basically a rookie - I know he has been learning the system for over a year, but playing the game will take time to adjust I imagine). Also, because I don't personally know too many Ravens fans, do you see/expect Maxx Williams breaking out this year? I'm interested to see how Max Williams/Benjamin Watson duo will work this year for you guys - It'll be nice for you to have Williams learning/playing alongside Watson. Watson has all my respect - one of the best guys in the NFL IMO.

Also, do you think your running game will step it up? I know you had OL injuries last year, but it seemed Forsett/Allen couldn't get a whole lot going - and then Forsett had the arm injury in week 11 or 12. Obviously the OL injuries/lack of production are intertwined, but do you think the Ravens have enough RB talent this year? If Forsett can come back with the same 2014 swagger it will be interesting, but as a RB 30 years old isn't exactly youthful anymore...

Curious to hear your take.

I still see Gilmore as their go to guy, no Williams, but I guess that could change this year. They've been hurting since the whole unfortunate injury of Pitta. Hopefully Watson clicks with Flacco the same way lots of other older receivers have.

 As far as RBs go, I have to hope it's more like 2014 when we had a healthy line. I know the concern with Stanley will be his run blocking, but I have to hope him healthy is still better than a back up. 

[Luvnit2]

(05-16-2016, 02:45 AM)mroudfly Wrote: I'm out here in Melbourne, AU and have to settle for Australian Rules football and Rugby every weekend, so I seriously need some NFL talk at the moment (move back to the states in August - perfect timing ).

Based on the current state of rosters in the AFC North - just wanted get some perspectives on how teams compare on paper (obviously this is pointless BS fun):

Offense
1.) Pittsburgh Steelers - The three B's healthy will be very difficult to stop. Really just want Ben to retire...
2.) Cincinnati Bengals - Dalton back to being healthy. AJG, Gio, Hill (back to normal hopefully), Eifert, Boyd...weapons weapons weapons.
3.) Baltimore Ravens - Steve Smith Sr., Aiken and a healthy Perriman will be interesting to watch.
4.) Cleveland Browns - drafted a million WRs and now have RGIII....

Defense
1.) Cincinnati Bengals - One of the best scoring defenses last year - lose Nelson, but add lots of new weapons through FA/Draft (WJ3, Billings, Vigil, KD..)
2.) Baltimore Ravens - Allowed over 25ppg last year, but with Suggs back, the wave of rookie pash rushers, and the likes of smith/weddle/webb - they should bounce back this year.
3.) Pittsburgh Steelers - Everyone ripped on them last year, but statistically they weren't horrible...Added new weapons as well and a year of experience for the young guys.
4.) Cleveland Browns - ...............someone help me here

Special Teams
1.) Baltimore Ravens - Justin Tucker is automatic, and an auto-touchback machine...Steve Smith Sr. as PR again at his age?
2.) Pittsburgh Steelers - Figured out the K position finally; AB returning punts is always scary...Archer was a bust;
3.) Cincinnati Bengals - Searching for a Tate replacement (although he's safe); Pacman is solid PR; Huber had a somewhat off year statistically, and Nugent seems to be trending in the wrong direction
4.) Cleveland Browns - Average K/P; lost their punt returner in Benjamin

Overall
1.) Bengals - playoff bound
2.) Steelers - playoff bound
3.) Ravens - playoff bound
4.) Browns - maybe LeBron will try out for TE someday

Always interested to see everyone else's thoughts...Obviously a bit homerish - on paper 3/4 teams look very solid (sorry Browns). I can see the Bengals, Steelers and Ravens making it out in '16, especially with lots of question marks in the AFC (Jets, Broncos, etc...).

Cheers

I think it is fair to say Ravens, Steelers and Bengals offenses will all be very good. I can see the argument with Suggs back the Ravens improve on defense (and draft), but they have a long way to improve to match the Bengals defense. The Steelers also focused on defense and I see improvement versus 2015.
Overall, I think all 3 of these teams are very good and it is a toss up who wins the AFCN this year, but as of now I would give the edge to the Steelers and Bengals slightly.

[JS-Steelerfan]

(05-17-2016, 10:05 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I think it is fair to say Ravens, Steelers and Bengals offenses will all be very good. I can see the argument with Suggs back the Ravens improve on defense (and draft), but they have a long way to improve to match the Bengals defense. The Steelers also focused on defense and I see improvement versus 2015.
Overall, I think all 3 of these teams are very good and it is a toss up who wins the AFCN this year, but as of now I would give the edge to the Steelers and Bengals slightly.

A thoughtful and reasonable post.  

Who are you and what have you done with Luvnit?  

[Vlad]

Best team on paper.

[BmorePat87]

(05-17-2016, 10:05 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I think it is fair to say Ravens, Steelers and Bengals offenses will all be very good. I can see the argument with Suggs back the Ravens improve on defense (and draft), but they have a long way to improve to match the Bengals defense. The Steelers also focused on defense and I see improvement versus 2015.
Overall, I think all 3 of these teams are very good and it is a toss up who wins the AFCN this year, but as of now I would give the edge to the Steelers and Bengals slightly.

I'm with you. For Suggs, I think he brings more with regards to psychological than he does physical. But another year removed, how much of that does he still bring? They're still not even close to being that dominating defense of the 2000's. 

[Bmoreblitz]

IMO Pees is hurting the Ravens D. Just not aggressive enough. They haven't been able to close out games even when the O gives them a lead. Lack of turnovers hurts a lot. Think they were ranked last or near last in take always. Hopefully some of the new blood will help.