Bengals extend Shawn Williams

[fredtoast]

Watching the draft it seemed like a lot of teams were looking for big DBs that can play close to the line of scrimmage. Safeties used to be some of the lowest paid defensive players. But the NFL has come such a passing league that the 5th DB plays more snaps than one of the starting LBs.

When I looked up the numbers I was surprised to see that Shawn played almost half of the Bengals defensive snaps last year (473 of 1032). Plus the coaches have seen him get thousands of reps in practice. And most importantly they know his work ethic and attitude.

[Luvnit2]

(05-17-2016, 02:05 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Where do you get that Nelson would have been the backup if he came back?  I remember reading that they had talks for almost a month, but the sticking points were contract length and guaranteed money.

Nothing more than an opinion. I read this as they like Williams over Reggie Nelson in 2016 and beyond. Thus why they pulled the trigger early. I trust the team because they watch every practice and every snap played, we have seen 10% of what Williams has done because we miss practices.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(05-17-2016, 05:07 PM)BobJones4980 Wrote: Everything I saw was Dave Lapham saying we offered similar contract figures to what Iloka got but didn't wanna give him the guaranteed or the number of years Iloka got.

So in other words, you're saying "It was totally similar... except for the majority of it!"

Iloka got $5m guaranteed on a 5 year deal. So in other words, they wanted to what, give Nelson less than $1m/yr guaranteed? How much less? We don't know, just a "fair" number. Lol.. maybe the Bengals thought $1m guaranteed on a 2 year deal was fair.

So it's plausible that Nelson got about 4 times more guaranteed money from the Raiders than the Bengals were offering him.

- - - - - - -

If the Bengals wanted to move on from Nelson, sure, I can respect that. But it didn't seem like they did, it seems like they tried to offer something much smaller and call it "similar" to what he ended up signing for. Just like JJo, just like Housh, just like M Jones. Just saying... eventually if you keep offering "similar" deals and EVERYONE says it's about guaranteed money. MAYBE you're not actually offering similar deals at all.

[BobJones4980]

(05-17-2016, 05:36 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: So in other words, you're saying "It was totally similar... except for the majority of it!"

Iloka got $5m guaranteed on a 5 year deal. So in other words, they wanted to what, give Nelson less than $1m/yr guaranteed? How much less? We don't know, just a "fair" number. Lol.. maybe the Bengals thought $1m guaranteed on a 2 year deal was fair.

So it's plausible that Nelson got about 4 times more guaranteed money from the Raiders than the Bengals were offering him.

- - - - - - -

If the Bengals wanted to move on from Nelson, sure, I can respect that. But it didn't seem like they did, it seems like they tried to offer something much smaller and call it "similar" to what he ended up signing for. Just like JJo, just like Housh, just like M Jones. Just saying... eventually if you keep offering "similar" deals and EVERYONE says it's about guaranteed money. MAYBE you're not actually offering similar deals at all.

You and I see the Nelson situation pretty differently, we offered him a contract we thought was fair and negotiated a bit, when we decided it wasn't gonna work out we cut him loose and moved on. How is that not being ready to move on? The team was willing to keep a veteran around for a team that is ready to contend but only at the right price, if he wanted too much they were ready to move on. Do you really think the team wasn't prepared to move on from Nelson as quickly as they shut down contract talks?

Why should the Bengals have offered Nelson 4 million guaranteed? Because fans and 1 NFL team felt he was worth that? We didn't and we have a guy ready to step into his role. Honestly it blows my mind that you think 31 NFL teams were wrong for not having offered him the contract the Raiders did, this dude was on the market for a long time asking for way too much and by the time he was ready to take a reasonable contract the team offering the highest was a Raiders team that had been throwing money around all offseason and he still only got 2 years 8.5 mil, but sure the Bengals should have given him whatever he wanted.

Also outside of JJo(who talked shit about the Bengals because they didn't want to stock his home refrigerator and seemed to want to leave) I find it hard to believe that TJ or M Jones were worth the contracts they received, especially Marvin on this team.

You seem like your pretty set on the Neslon situation though so you do you.

[MentalRage]

(05-17-2016, 05:36 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: So in other words, you're saying "It was totally similar... except for the majority of it!"

Iloka got $5m guaranteed on a 5 year deal. So in other words, they wanted to what, give Nelson less than $1m/yr guaranteed? How much less? We don't know, just a "fair" number. Lol.. maybe the Bengals thought $1m guaranteed on a 2 year deal was fair.

So it's plausible that Nelson got about 4 times more guaranteed money from the Raiders than the Bengals were offering him.

- - - - - - -

If the Bengals wanted to move on from Nelson, sure, I can respect that. But it didn't seem like they did, it seems like they tried to offer something much smaller and call it "similar" to what he ended up signing for. Just like JJo, just like Housh, just like M Jones. Just saying... eventually if you keep offering "similar" deals and EVERYONE says it's about guaranteed money. MAYBE you're not actually offering similar deals at all.

 Nelson is 32 years old. JJo was in his prime and wanted to get paid. We chose to pay Leon Hall. Marvin Jones wanted to be a number 1. That's why he left. Housh? Past his prime. 

The Bengals front office has done a great job with team/player friendly deals. You can't force a player to stay with the orginization ie Nelson and M Jones.  If the Bengals had overpaid for Nelson the same people would be complaining about paying a 32 year old safety when we have Shawn Williams waiting to take over. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

[Brodude3]

(05-17-2016, 01:56 PM)Goalpost Wrote: I'm happy with the signing.  Illoka, Williams, and now Shaw capable as well back there.  Reggie will be missed, but overall the Bengals have reacted fairly well.

Shaw is an emergency Safety (Similar to Hall last year).... Smith and Mays are the backups. Smith will move into the role Williams played last year with Mays and possibly Fej or Raven rounding out the group.

[jfkbengals]

I would have preferred it was Gio or Zeitler extended, but I'm OK that it is now behind us so we can focus on other pieces.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-17-2016, 01:37 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Seriously... how is someone with four career starts, two career interceptions, and five career passes defensed a "premium starter"??

Scheme friendly and can plug right in and play at a high level.   He was never a liability while in there.   He will be fine.  

He is premium because the team knows everything about him and knows what his weaknesses are and they trust him on the field.   Better situation than bringing someone in off the street.  

[StLucieBengal]

(05-17-2016, 07:53 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: I would have preferred it was Gio or Zeitler extended, but I'm OK that it is now behind us so we can focus on other pieces.

I would think Zeitler is coming soon .  

Then they can focus on gio and Eifert 

[THE Bigzoman]

Yeah, let's extend the least proven to 4 years.

Come now.

[Beaker]

(05-17-2016, 08:03 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: Yeah, let's extend the least proven to 4 years.

Come now.

Does it really matter what order? As long as they get it done.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(05-17-2016, 08:02 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I would think Zeitler is coming soon .  

Then they can focus on gio and Eifert 

Almost certain it won't happen until next offseason.

Eifert has two years left on his contract and it's not clear if he's going to be paid like a talented but often injured player, or a talented player who's just had some bad luck in the past. Look for 2016 to answer that question.

[TexasorBusted]

Shawn Williams signing definitely caught me by surprise, but this was the right move.

Now try to work on extensions for Zeitler, Eifert, Gio, and Dre in that order. Sorry Dre, but go walk. Go get your money elsewhere. Dennard/WJIII are your future replacements.

I expected Nelson to walk after his Pro-Bowl season. From the FO perspective which is more likely to happen:
1) Nelson plays at a Pro-Bowl level in 2016
2) Nelson plays as an above average NFL Safety at age 32
3) Nelson reverts back to what Nelson was in 2014 but now a 32 year old safety and not getting those INTs

I believe #3 is the likely scenario for Nelson in 2016. BTW, I felt that Nelson's INTs were totally inflated due to team defense. Think Michael Johnson getting all of those sacks before he went to Tampa. Nelson's INTs were a symptom of great team defense.

If Williams isn't the guy, then he cost the Bengals $4 million to find out. Not that steep considering Smith and Shaw are still around. But locking key pieces to the defense are worth spending now instead of fighting the open market. Yes, only four starts does give me some pause. But Williams was out on the field for nearly half the snaps and the Bengals must see something special in him. I trust their decision. The FO has been lately pretty good on deciding when to cut bait or invest.

[Shake n Blake]

I was just fine with locking him up as he looks like Reggie's long term replacement. That said, $5 million per seems a bit high for an unproven safety. I liked what I saw in the 4 games he started last year, but you can't rationally argue that he's a proven player.

Sure, coaches know what he looks like in practice, etc, but what if the guy turns out to be brittle? What if he doesn't play Reggie's spot as well as he played in place of Iloka?


Glad we got him locked up, but hopefully he'll be good enough to justify that average salary. The Bengals usually honor contracts all the way through, so it'll be interesting to see how he plays this season.

[bonesaw]

good signing. They obviously feel he will command more than that after starting. Plus only 4 mil guaranteed so if they are dead wrong they can cut him loose.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-17-2016, 06:13 PM)MentalRage Wrote:  Nelson is 32 years old. JJo was in his prime and wanted to get paid. We chose to pay Leon Hall. Marvin Jones wanted to be a number 1. That's why he left. Housh? Past his prime. 

The Bengals front office has done a great job with team/player friendly deals. You can't force a player to stay with the orginization ie Nelson and M Jones.  If the Bengals had overpaid for Nelson the same people would be complaining about paying a 32 year old safety when we have Shawn Williams waiting to take over. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Agree, mostly

Nelson will be 33 shortly after the season starts and is a lot closer to the end of his career than the beginning. It would have been nice to keep him another year but I totally understand why they weren't willing to give him longer term big money.

I feel pretty good about our secondary, including Williams.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-17-2016, 09:20 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I was just fine with locking him up as he looks like Reggie's long term replacement. That said, $5 million per seems a bit high for an unproven safety. I liked what I saw in the 4 games he started last year, but you can't rationally argue that he's a proven player.

Sure, coaches know what he looks like in practice, etc, but what if the guy turns out to be brittle? What if he doesn't play Reggie's spot as well as he played in place of Iloka?


Glad we got him locked up, but hopefully he'll be good enough to justify that average salary. The Bengals usually honor contracts all the way through, so it'll be interesting to see how he plays this season.

Evidently, the team thinks that he has shown them that his developmental phase was a success, and are now ready to see him assume the starting role.  I had huge hopes, when Williams was drafted, and was so disappointed when he was slow to see game reps.  He was a really good player at UGA.  That is the luxury of taking guys in the middle rounds, and being able to allow them time to develop.  He has grown into the pro game, and is now ready for big time. 

I don't see his contract as anything exorbitant. As was mentioned previously, his salary will barely crack the top 20, and in the back half of his contract he will be on the lower end of starting Safety pay.  With only 4M being guaranteed, the team seems to be covered in the event that he doesn't live up to expectations.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(05-17-2016, 01:01 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: I'm also curious as to why they seemed to "rush" into extending him considering there may be more pressing needs to extend first.

(05-17-2016, 01:21 PM)Who Dey Time Wrote: Hard to truly evaluate Williams if you keep putting Nelson out there though the extension does strike me as early.

Having said that, the Bengals FO has earned the benefit of the doubt on these things so I tend to lean towards the thinking that this was a good preemptive strike before Williams' value soared.

(05-17-2016, 01:22 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I posted those just for comparison. 

As I said earlier in the thread, I wasn't sure what the contract was for and was curious to see where they set his value.  I only provided those deals to give some examples of the market.

I think what some people are questioning is why there was such a rush to lock up a player with his experience.  (4 career starts, 39 career tackles, 2 career INT's, 5 career PD's)  Some people immediately point to potential savings as the clear cut answer, but given the deals shown above, I'm not sure they're all that much, barring an elite level season.

To each their own, but I personally think it's a tad strange to give him a TJ Ward-esque contract with such a small sample size.  And I would have preferred either to pay that money to Nelson and save some money in the process, or let him play out his rookie deal and re-evaluate his market after the season (long term vs tag).

I understand your feelings about him. I think Shawn will be good, he just hasn't had a chance yet to shine. 

The FO doesn't just throw these offers out there with out any input from the Coaches, so the coaches must really like what they see. That's good enough for me, and the bonus is we have a great looking backfield and mostly locked up for a while now. Even better if Dre turns it up this year.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-17-2016, 10:11 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I understand your feelings about him. I think Shawn will be good, he just hasn't had a chance yet to shine. 

The FO doesn't just throw these offers out there with out any input from the Coaches, so the coaches must really like what they see. That's good enough for me, and the bonus is we have a great looking backfield and mostly locked up for a while now. Even better if Dre turns it up this year.

Awe, you had me.  Until that part about Dre turning it up this year...

[BURROWorBUST]

Call it coach speak, but when you listen to Paulie G reaction to the extension, you get the very clear impression that they have full confidence in Williams to take over for Reggie. Getting his contract done allows him to focus more on football.

I thought it was interesting that the only person he called after the extension was Terrence Neuman. Neuman is a class act, which speaks volumes for Williams that the things we heard Guenther say about his work ethic.

I'll miss Reggie. Would have loved for us to re-sign him, but I was big on us drafting Williams when we did. Liked him far more than Rambo. We should be fine.