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So like many of us here, I have been digesting the news of Shawn Williams' contract extension. I've been reading articles, watching videos, etc, standard offseason routine. On the Bengals website there is a brief interview with Shawn, reacting with reporters on his payday. As is usually the case, a pretty bland back and forth with stock questions and responses. That is until one reporter asked 'who was your first call' (once the extension was agreed). What I found eye opening, is that Williams revealed that one of the first calls he made was to Terrence Newman. He mentioned how Newman had always been there through his NFL career so far and he is thankful to still be able to have a good relationship with him.
This really struck a chord with me and got me thinking. The whole journalistic style around the NFL has become so robotic and largely sterile. Churned out are articles ranking performances and attributes, top ten this, top 100 that. Players are graded like household appliances, 'very powerful but lacks endurance'. What is so often lost is the appreciation and reporting of life's nuances and subtleties (something I think Jim Owczarski actually does do very well). In 2011 the Eagles went all out in FA, signing the likes of Jason Babin, Nnamdi Asomugha, Ronnie Brown, Vince Young, Evan Mathis and Cullen Jenkins. The media (and Young) quickly anointed it a dream team. That many experienced stars on one team, no way they don't go deep into the playoffs right? Well as I'm sure most will remember, they went 8-8 missing out on the playoffs entirely.
So where am I going with all this? Well of late this, and the previous board, have been critical of the way in which the Bengals organisation have brought in and retained aging players. There was at the time a lot of opposition to Newman coming in, last season keeping Hall was largely criticised, Dhani Jones and Maualuga have faced a lot of online wrath and every year Peko gets his fair share of hate. However since about 2012 the way this team has drafted has been widely met with support, and quite rightly too. People have loved the way FO of late seems to be able to come away with steals, acquiring major talent that for some reason has slid down the rounds. Players such as Dunlap and Burfict are proving it can be a recipe for success. I think what Shawn Williams' comment about Newman highlighted to me, is quite what the Bengals have been able to build over the last few seasons. When the team signs a player like Dansby, Harrison or Hawk, yes first and foremost it is with the ambition of helping on-field performance. I truly believe however that also a strong consideration, is how these veterans will be able to knit together a team of talented, but ultimately inexperienced players. For 5 straight seasons this team has been able to get to the playoffs. Now of course they haven't been able to get over the hump; but the fact that are able to keep coming back shows to me the resilience that has been created within the team. A large part of that has to be the culture that has been created in the locker room. The younger players are been well guided by vets and being supported not just professionally, but clearly emotionally too. So while we write threads about 'washed up' players, keep in mind the impact these experienced professionals can have on the team as a whole. Cohesiveness should not be overlooked.
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Thanks for the compliment!
You hit on two things there:
1. Yes, press conferences tend to be like that. Honestly, they're mostly for TV and radio. I try to get the good stuff elsewhere.
2. Your point on veteran signings:
This is only my second year around the team, and first true offseason (my year anniversary was just before the draft). But I knew Hawk from my days in Green Bay and knew he would be absolutely perfect in the role he was asked to play. And he was. I learned quickly that Leon Hall would handle his situation perfectly, much to our frustration (meaning he politely declined every interview request after training camp). Adam Jones and Darqueze Dennard still talk to Newman as well. Immediate first impressions is that Dansby seems like a good fit (along these lines) as well. I have heard Harrison was a good locker room vet as well at the time. So I do think that yes, there is something to "washed up" if you want to be that cynical - Hawk and Dansby (and most thought Harrison) were well past their primes. They were/are. But some care has been put into why they WERE signed and how they can positively affect the locker room while contributing when called up on physically.
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Jim. You're an asset to this board. Thanks for keeping up and responding when able.
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Rep Points on the Post !!
I think this is a great opportunity to praise Marvin Lewis also. Coach Lewis knows what kind of guys he wants in his locker room and he has done a great job of bringing in guys who will help build up the locker room cohesion instead of disrupting it. It was really evident in his first year when he brought in guys like Torey James, John Thornton and Reggie Kelley. (remember Cincy was NFL purgatory at that time) Guys who could be a real professional even in trying times..He's had some misses but think of some of the great success stories. Burfict..and how Marvin and he reached out to each other before the draft even happened. Yeah Vontaze still has some on field issues but you can't deny the great play he produces on the field. Coach Lewis never gave up on Chris Henry. Sadly when he was finally getting it all together, a higher power took Chris away. He sticks by guys like Maualuga and Tate cause as much as we all scream for them to go he knows the part that guys like them play in the workings of the team. Look at what he did for Deven Still..Guys, that speaks a ton on the Bengals organization and how, while Lewis has been HC, they have completely turned around what was once a complete laughing stock of the league and an embarrassment to the fans.
He has mentored along 3 other current NFL head Coaches and if Guenther keeps doing what he's doing, he'll soon have a 4th. He's brought in a proven guy like Jim Haslett to get the best out of a conflicted player like Burfict. Other coaches now want to come an work under the guidance of Marvin Lewis. Coach Lewis now has the players more visible and accessible to the city communities and fans more than they ever have been before. Youth and High School sports fields are being revamped. Scholarships are being given and those wonderful holiday shopping sprees..The Cincy Soccer team wants to be endorsed by the Bengals because its cool and good for business. Tell me what other coach the Bengals have had that encouraged these types of things?
Now you have young guys like Shawn Williams..Directly crediting some of the savvy veterans that were brought in as reasons that they wanted to stay. You have another guy in Michael Johnson who chased the money only to find that his real best bet was around the veteran line in Cincy that he meshed so well with. Yes the team lost some free agents but you don't see guys racing for the door like they did in the past. Nelson wanted to stay, Hall wants to still be around, Iloka could have chased the cash but elected to come back. Marvin Lewis took the downtrodden old ugly Cincinnati Bengals and made them attractive again..
Now I know Mike Brown acting more like an owner instead of a busy body meddler has a lot to do with this and you can't credit Duke Tobin and Katie Blackburn enough but, to me at least, Marvin Lewis is the best thing that has happened to the Bengals since he got here.
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Marvin Lewis, for all his good and bad, has made this team, first and foremost, a family. You have guys like Williams who can go to the vets like Reggie Nelson and Tnew for guidance. He brought Harrison in to show the locker room how a consummate pro (like him or not) prepares and takes care of his body. We have a D-line that are closer than any other group I have heard of in the NFL, to the point that when MJ left for Tampa, they didn't cut him out of the group texts, and what do you know, the next year he's back. Peko and Whit are the big daddies of the locker room, and, if you notice, after the totally heartbreaking loss (which was really a win since the NFL ruled Shitsburgh didn't score and admitted Porter should have been flagged which would have offset the foul on Jones, we lost to the refs, not the stoolers) no one turned on each other. That speaks volumes.......
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(05-19-2016, 08:58 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Marvin Lewis, for all his good and bad, has made this team, first and foremost, a family. You have guys like Williams who can go to the vets like Reggie Nelson and Tnew for guidance. He brought Harrison in to show the locker room how a consummate pro (like him or not) prepares and takes care of his body. We have a D-line that are closer than any other group I have heard of in the NFL, to the point that when MJ left for Tampa, they didn't cut him out of the group texts, and what do you know, the next year he's back. Peko and Whit are the big daddies of the locker room, and, if you notice, after the totally heartbreaking loss (which was really a win since the NFL ruled Shitsburgh didn't score and admitted Porter should have been flagged which would have offset the foul on Jones, we lost to the refs, not the stoolers) no one turned on each other. That speaks volumes.......
All great points, but, didn't Adam Jones say publicly that Hill shouldn't have fumbled the ball or something like that?
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(05-19-2016, 08:58 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Marvin Lewis, for all his good and bad, has made this team, first and foremost, a family. You have guys like Williams who can go to the vets like Reggie Nelson and Tnew for guidance. He brought Harrison in to show the locker room how a consummate pro (like him or not) prepares and takes care of his body. We have a D-line that are closer than any other group I have heard of in the NFL, to the point that when MJ left for Tampa, they didn't cut him out of the group texts, and what do you know, the next year he's back. Peko and Whit are the big daddies of the locker room, and, if you notice, after the totally heartbreaking loss (which was really a win since the NFL ruled Shitsburgh didn't score and admitted Porter should have been flagged which would have offset the foul on Jones, we lost to the refs, not the stoolers) no one turned on each other. That speaks volumes.......
Kudos to this. This won't set well for the die hard fans, but for the employees of NFL teams, from management to the custodians, this is their 'job', their 9-5, first and foremost! They have families and things they enjoy doing with their families outside of football! Yes, they all want to be the last team standing at the end of the year, that's the 'goal' they all share. But only one team, out of 32, will be left standing each year, and in the meantime, their personal lives go on.
Kudos to Marvin and Brown who truly cares about these guys and what they do off the field, which is why you see so many involved in 'giving' back off the field, AND the huge 'family' concept in the locker room. That's why I think 'prima donna' players would not fit well in this organization. That 'prima donna' attitude ultimately led to a locker room destruction and a 4-12 season!!
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Every year the discussion goes round and round about why they keep Cedric Peerman over the hot rookie RB of the season. Besides his kickass special teams play, he is a well respected calming force in the locker room. He plays a role on the special teams just as Whit does for the offense and Peko does for the defense. For lack of a better word...they are the father figures of the team. Newman apparently played that role for the secondary. We had too many years of not taking into consideration how a player fits into the team dynamics, this way is better. Ir can be argued that every year Kentucky has the 5 best players in college basketball...yet they are often beaten by better TEAMS.
Winning makes believers of us all
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(05-19-2016, 08:58 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Marvin Lewis, for all his good and bad, has made this team, first and foremost, a family. You have guys like Williams who can go to the vets like Reggie Nelson and Tnew for guidance. He brought Harrison in to show the locker room how a consummate pro (like him or not) prepares and takes care of his body. We have a D-line that are closer than any other group I have heard of in the NFL, to the point that when MJ left for Tampa, they didn't cut him out of the group texts, and what do you know, the next year he's back. Peko and Whit are the big daddies of the locker room, and, if you notice, after the totally heartbreaking loss (which was really a win since the NFL ruled Shitsburgh didn't score and admitted Porter should have been flagged which would have offset the foul on Jones, we lost to the refs, not the stoolers) no one turned on each other. That speaks volumes.......
when was the last time you had to cut a member? Or tell them they are to old or slow to be in your "family" anymore? This is a business, not a family.
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On the contrary...the Bengals have had veteran teams in the past. What have they won?
The Jets were the oldest team in the league last year. Weren't in the playoffs.
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Like I said, many fans have football as their God! They live, breathe, eat, and sleep football! In their own lives it's football first, family second! Not true? Ask Jimmy Johnson. He gave up his family for a Lomardi trophy quest that is so in the past most people have forgotten and the others could care less.
What's next for Jimmy? Contine as an analyst, then retire. Then what? Grow old and die. Then what?
This same thing almost happened to Urban Myers at Florida, until he got a grip. He's got his priorities straight, his players are family enough that he was at the NFL draft, and he still won a championship with OSU!
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If the Bengals are a "family" instead of a team, then I blame our playoff meltdown on poor parenting.
Peko rushing the field with his cape on was like the dad of a little leaguer getting in a fight with the umpire.
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(05-19-2016, 10:55 AM)fredtoast Wrote: If the Bengals are a "family" instead of a team, then I blame our playoff meltdown on poor parenting.
Peko rushing the field with his cape on was like the dad of a little leaguer getting in a fight with the umpire.
...and arguably, 2 of the biggest culprits in the playoff loss last year? Veterans. Adam Jones and Domata Peko.
When Seattle won the Super Bowl a few years back? One of the most inexperienced rosters of all-time.
Give me superior talent and good luck any day of the week.
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A veteran presence is absolutely integral if your main method of team building is via the draft like our Bengals. I think the way that the Bengals view FA and the draft is not one for immediate realization of potential but the gradual assembly of an enduring roster. We've watched this happen with perennial contenders such as the Patriots, the Packers, and the Squeelers and its a recipe for continued success. We're an antsy fan base in some ways because of our taste of success after the 90s, but you have to truly see the bigger picture to appreciate the new philosophy our FO has adopted over the past decade.
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(05-19-2016, 11:15 AM)treee Wrote: A veteran presence is absolutely integral if your main method of team building is via the draft like our Bengals. I think the way that the Bengals view FA and the draft is not one for immediate realization of potential but the gradual assembly of an enduring roster. We've watched this happen with perennial contenders such as the Patriots, the Packers, and the Squeelers and its a recipe for continued success. We're an antsy fan base in some ways because of our taste of success after the 90s, but you have to truly see the bigger picture to appreciate the new philosophy our FO has adopted over the past decade.
If the Bengals just had a little success in the playoffs, they would be THE model of how to run an NFL franchise. No team has been more consistent, has drafted, developed and retained players better in the last 10-15 years. All doing so without an elite head coach or an elite QB.
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(05-18-2016, 03:56 PM)BritishBengal Wrote: So like many of us here, I have been digesting the news of Shawn Williams' contract extension. I've been reading articles, watching videos, etc, standard offseason routine. On the Bengals website there is a brief interview with Shawn, reacting with reporters on his payday. As is usually the case, a pretty bland back and forth with stock questions and responses. That is until one reporter asked 'who was your first call' (once the extension was agreed). What I found eye opening, is that Williams revealed that one of the first calls he made was to Terrence Newman. He mentioned how Newman had always been there through his NFL career so far and he is thankful to still be able to have a good relationship with him.
This really struck a chord with me and got me thinking. The whole journalistic style around the NFL has become so robotic and largely sterile. Churned out are articles ranking performances and attributes, top ten this, top 100 that. Players are graded like household appliances, 'very powerful but lacks endurance'. What is so often lost is the appreciation and reporting of life's nuances and subtleties (something I think Jim Owczarski actually does do very well). In 2011 the Eagles went all out in FA, signing the likes of Jason Babin, Nnamdi Asomugha, Ronnie Brown, Vince Young, Evan Mathis and Cullen Jenkins. The media (and Young) quickly anointed it a dream team. That many experienced stars on one team, no way they don't go deep into the playoffs right? Well as I'm sure most will remember, they went 8-8 missing out on the playoffs entirely.
So where am I going with all this? Well of late this, and the previous board, have been critical of the way in which the Bengals organisation have brought in and retained aging players. There was at the time a lot of opposition to Newman coming in, last season keeping Hall was largely criticised, Dhani Jones and Maualuga have faced a lot of online wrath and every year Peko gets his fair share of hate. However since about 2012 the way this team has drafted has been widely met with support, and quite rightly too. People have loved the way FO of late seems to be able to come away with steals, acquiring major talent that for some reason has slid down the rounds. Players such as Dunlap and Burfict are proving it can be a recipe for success. I think what Shawn Williams' comment about Newman highlighted to me, is quite what the Bengals have been able to build over the last few seasons. When the team signs a player like Dansby, Harrison or Hawk, yes first and foremost it is with the ambition of helping on-field performance. I truly believe however that also a strong consideration, is how these veterans will be able to knit together a team of talented, but ultimately inexperienced players. For 5 straight seasons this team has been able to get to the playoffs. Now of course they haven't been able to get over the hump; but the fact that are able to keep coming back shows to me the resilience that has been created within the team. A large part of that has to be the culture that has been created in the locker room. The younger players are been well guided by vets and being supported not just professionally, but clearly emotionally too. So while we write threads about 'washed up' players, keep in mind the impact these experienced professionals can have on the team as a whole. Cohesiveness should not be overlooked.
Nice post BB. That stood out to me as well about Newman.
T-New really impressed me while he was here both on and off the field. Have to give Zimmer some credit but
your summary is completely correct and the way the coaches have brought cohesive players to this team it really
shows come regular season and we should break through post season soon enough i am sure.
Also, i thought the Newman pickup was good at the time be he was much better for us than i expected.
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(05-19-2016, 11:20 AM)ItsOdellThurman Wrote: If the Bengals just had a little success in the playoffs, they would be THE model of how to run an NFL franchise. No team has been more consistent, has drafted, developed and retained players better in the last 10-15 years. All doing so without an elite head coach or an elite QB.
What's a playoff win get you? The only team that is successful in the playoffs is the one who winstheir last game.
Most people don't remember who lost the SB, let alone how many playoff games a team wins
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(05-19-2016, 11:00 AM)ItsOdellThurman Wrote: ...and arguably, 2 of the biggest culprits in the playoff loss last year? Veterans. Adam Jones and Domata Peko.
When Seattle won the Super Bowl a few years back? One of the most inexperienced rosters of all-time.
Give me superior talent and good luck any day of the week.
If the Bengals are a "family" instead of a team, then I blame our playoff meltdown on poor parenting.
Peko rushing the field with his cape on was like the dad of a little leaguer getting in a fight with the umpire.
Perfect example of the football worshippers. My guess is these type, if they aren't at the games with painted faces, they watch at home with all the garb and if their families aren't on board they send them to the mall on game day.
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(05-19-2016, 12:23 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: What's a playoff win get you? The only team that is successful in the playoffs is the one who winstheir last game.
Most people don't remember who lost the SB, let alone how many playoff games a team wins
I'm saying the Bengals ARE. But because of the lack of the playoff success, they don't get credit for it nationally.
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(05-19-2016, 12:30 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: Perfect example of the football worshippers. My guess is these type, if they aren't at the games with painted faces, they watch at home with all the garb and if their families aren't on board they send them to the mall on game day.
Actually the Bengals might be a lot worse off with out strong locker room leaders. It is just impossible to know for sure.
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