Rank our WRs

[Brownshoe]

(05-23-2016, 10:53 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: So I guess we are completely disregarding Eiffert during these rankings?

I mean, I know you said wide receivers, but Eiffert is one of our top receiving weapons on offense...

He's doing position by position. He will do a TE rankings later

[GreenCornBengal]

(05-23-2016, 11:25 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: He's doing position by position. He will do a TE rankings later

In that case, they may even be in the 20-25 range. We can homer ourselves out on Boyd and Cody Core, but in all honestly I see a lot of more proven wr groups out there for other teams.

[GreenCornBengal]

ARZ- Larry Fitzgerald, Michael Floyd, John Brown +
ATL- Julio Jones, Mohamed Sanu, Devin Hester =
BAL- Steve Smith, Mike Wallace, Breshad Perriman =
BUF- Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods, Marquise Goodman -
CAR- Kelvin Benjiman, Devin Funchess, Ted Gin Jr +
CHI- Alshon Jeffey, Kevin White,  Eddie Royal +
CLV- Brian Hartline, Colby Coleman, Andrew Hawkins -
DAL- Dez Bryant, Terrance Williams, Cole Beasley +
DEN- Demaryius Thomas, Emmanuel Sanders, Cody Latimer +
DET-Marvin Jones, Golden Tate, Jeremy Kerley +
GBP- Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb, Davante Adams +
HOU- Dodo Hopkins, Cecil Shorts III,  Will Fuller +
IND- TY Hilton, Phillip Dorsett, Donte Moncrief +
JAX- Allen Hurns, Allen Robinson, Marquise Lee +
KCC- Jeremy Maclin, Albert Wilson, Chris Conley -
LAR- Tavon Austin, Kenny Britt, Brian Quick -
MIA- Jarvis Landry, Kenny Stills, DeVante Parker =
MIN- Stefon Diggs, Laquell Treadwell, Charles Johnson =
NEP- Danny Amendola, Julian Eldeman,  Nate Washington +
NOS- Brandin Cooks, Willie Snead, Brandon Coleman -
NYG- Odell Beckham Jr, Victor Cruz, Sterling Shepard +
NYJ- Eric Decker, Brandon Marshall, Devin Smith +
OAK- Amari Cooper, Michael Crabtree, Seth Roberts +
PHI- Jordon Matthews, Nelson Aguilar, Rueben Randle +
PIT- Antonio Bryant, Markus Wheaton, Sammie Coats +
SDC- Keenan Allen, Travis benjamin, Stevie Johnson +
SEA- Doug Baldwin, Jermaine Kearse, Tyler Lockett +
SFF- Torrey Smith,  Jerome Simpson, Quinton Patton -
TBB- Mike Evans, Vincent Jackson, Louis Murphy +
TEN- Kendall Wright, Dorial Green-Beckham, Harry Douglas =
WAS- DeSean Jackson,  Pierre Garcon, Josh Doctson +

+ means better than us
- means worse than us
= means about the same

[Brownshoe]

(05-23-2016, 11:35 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: In that case, they may even be in the 20-25 range. We can homer ourselves out on Boyd and Cody Core, but in all honestly I see a lot of more proven wr groups out there for other teams.

I don't see that. The loss of Sanu wasn't big at all, and you could EASILY see Boyd at least make up for his production.

Marvin Jones is good, but people severely overrated him here. LaFell has been more productive throughout his career than Jones has. I would say the team hasn't dropped off that much at all and more than likely got better than we were last year.

[GreenCornBengal]

(05-23-2016, 11:41 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: I don't see that. The loss of Sanu wasn't big at all, and you could EASILY see Boyd at least make up for his production.

Marvin Jones is good, but people severely overrated him here. LaFell has been more productive throughout his career than Jones has. I would say the team hasn't dropped off that much at all and more than likely got better than we were last year.

This thread is a bit misleading anyways. There are more than just 3 wrs in the room. The futher you go down our wr depth the further apart we get from the other wr rooms in the league.

I mean, I get it, I'm hopeful that we can seamlessly replace Sanu and Jones without any hiccups, but I don't think its realistic to replace 2 starting receivers (productive ones, whether you admit it or not) at the snap of a finger. Dalton is a cerebral/timing QB. The longer he is with guys, the better he get with them. He will need to start anew with Lafell, Boyd, Core, etc.

Without seeing the product of Boyd in the NFL yet, and the relatively justified concerns regarding Lafell, I think it isn't too much of a stretch to rank us in the 20s before the season where we are now.

As I originally said, I think their ceiling is in the top 10 if they can put it together like you are assuming they will.

[Brownshoe]

(05-23-2016, 11:46 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: This thread is a bit misleading anyways. There are more than just 3 wrs in the room. The futher you go down our wr depth the further apart we get from the other wr rooms in the league.

I mean, I get it, I'm hopeful that we can seamlessly replace Sanu and Jones without any hiccups, but I don't think its realistic to replace 2 starting receivers (productive ones, whether you admit it or not) at the snap of a finger. Dalton is a cerebral/timing QB. The longer he is with guys, the better he get with them. He will need to start anew with Lafell, Boyd, Core, etc.

Without seeing the product of Boyd in the NFL yet, and the relatively justified concerns regarding Lafell, I think it isn't too much of a stretch to rank us in the 20s before the season where we are now.

As I originally said, I think their ceiling is in the top 10 if they can put it together like you are assuming they will.

You we are really going to miss Sanu's 400 yards and 0 TD . Boyd can easily fill that role. I don't care if he hasn't played in the NFL yet, 400 yards is not hard for a rookie WR to get.

I never said Jones wasn't productive. He's just not as good as what people act like he is. LaFell will be just as productive as Jones. He's already proven that to be the case already with consistently having better stats, and much less injury time.

I'm going to be laughing to myself when in the middle of the season people are saying that we have better weapons than last year.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-23-2016, 11:35 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: In that case, they may even be in the 20-25 range. We can homer ourselves out on Boyd and Cody Core, but in all honestly I see a lot of more proven wr groups out there for other teams.

That really is a bit strong. I don't think it's "homering ourselves" to believe a WR corp composed of a top 5 WR, a productive new vet and a 2nd round pick is better than 20-25. 

I think people are focusing too much on the best WR trios in this list and ignoring the fact that somewhere around 75% of these trio's include questionable #2's and/or rookie/unproven #3's.

This reminds me a lot of when people were freaking out over our TE's last year. Everyone was down on Eifert even though he was a 1st round pick who had a promising rookie year, and people disregarded Kroft - a 3rd round pick - as if there was no hope he could produce as a rookie. Well we all saw how that turned out.

This is even worse IMO. Any WR corp with AJ Green in it isn't 20-25, I don't care who else fills out the depth chart. And it's not like LaFell and Boyd are scrubs. Fwiw, I don't get you lumping Boyd in with Core. Boyd is one of the top prospects from this year's draft while Core is just the latest in a long line of late-round WR's that probably will never see the field for us. There is legit reason for fans to be a little excited about Boyd though.

[XenoMorph]

realistically its just above average.  Because we don't know what we got outside of Green but we now we have Green so that still keeps us above average.

[XenoMorph]

(05-23-2016, 11:41 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: I don't see that. The loss of Sanu wasn't big at all, and you could EASILY see Boyd at least make up for his production.

Marvin Jones is good, but people severely overrated him here. LaFell has been more productive throughout his career than Jones has. I would say the team hasn't dropped off that much at all and more than likely got better than we were last year.

which your basing on hopes and dreams.... and nothing substantial at this level of play.    Lafell has been hit or miss and outside of green we have no idea how anyone fits into our system or have chemistry with out QB (which is important)

[XenoMorph]

(05-23-2016, 12:54 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: That really is a bit strong. I don't think it's "homering ourselves" to believe a WR corp composed of a top 5 WR, a productive new vet and a 2nd round pick is better than 20-25. 

I think people are focusing too much on the best WR trios in this list and ignoring the fact that somewhere around 75% of these trio's include questionable #2's and/or rookie/unproven #3's.

This reminds me a lot of when people were freaking out over our TE's last year. Everyone was down on Eifert even though he was a 1st round pick who had a promising rookie year, and people disregarded Kroft - a 3rd round pick - as if there was no hope he could produce as a rookie. Well we all saw how that turned out.

This is even worse IMO. Any WR corp with AJ Green in it isn't 20-25, I don't care who else fills out the depth chart. And it's not like LaFell and Boyd are scrubs. Fwiw, I don't get you lumping Boyd in with Core. Boyd is one of the top prospects from this year's draft while Core is just the latest in a long line of late-round WR's that probably will never see the field for us. There is legit reason for fans to be a little excited about Boyd though.

from what I heard Core is the one abusing WJIII not Boyd.

[Brownshoe]

(05-23-2016, 01:20 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: which your basing on hopes and dreams.... and nothing substantial at this level of play.    Lafell has been hit or miss and outside of green we have no idea how anyone fits into our system or have chemistry with out QB (which is important)

I'm not basing anything on hopes and dreams, if I was then I would say we have a much better WR core than last year. I'm basing it on the fact that Sanu didn't give up that much production at all, and rookies drafted high normally way outperform that.

LaFell has only had 1 bad season, and it wasn't even that bad considering he was out a lot of it. I don't know why you think he's "hit or miss".

[Brownshoe]

(05-23-2016, 01:22 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: from what I heard Core is the one abusing WJIII not Boyd.

Rookie mini camp is where people make their names

[Shake n Blake]

(05-23-2016, 01:35 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Rookie mini camp is where people make their names

Exactly. If Core keeps it up, he may be inducted into the off-season training HOF along with former legends like Armon Boldin  Binns.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(05-23-2016, 12:54 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. WR corp composed of a top 5 WR

2. people disregarded Kroft - a 3rd round pick - as if there was no hope he could produce as a rookie. Well we all saw how that turned out.

3. Any WR corp with AJ Green in it isn't 20-25, I don't care who else fills out the depth chart.

1. Is he, though? I like AJ a bunch, but I think it might be a stretch to call him a top 5 WR right this second.
WR yard rankings...
2015: 8th
2014: 19th
2013: 5th
2012: 10th
2011: 17th

Really think that right now people who remove their orange tinted glasses would be hard pressed to honestly say AJ is a top 5 WR. Jones, Brown, Hopkins, Marshall, OBJ, Robinson, heck.. even Thomas put up more yards with some of the worst QB play in the league. That's not counting Nelson, Bryant, and Jeffery being hurt. Plus Hilton nipping at AJ's heels.

I think this is a case of AJ has been consistently very good, but he's never taken that next step forward. It's like his floor was ridiculously high coming into the league, but his ceiling was at or right near the exact same height, so there was no room for improvement. It seems other WRs who started with a lower floor are taking that step, though, and passing him. He's still a top 10 guy.

2. Kroft finished with 11/129/1 in 16 games/6 starts. Dude started two games where he had blank stat sheets. A third where his stats were 1 catch for 4 yards. I am not quite sure that's eating crow territory, Shake.


3. Agreed with you on that, though... with a SLIGHT alteration. I don't care who else fills out the depth chart, so long as it's not Brandon Tate, Greg Little, and Dane Sanzenbacher. LOL

[Essex Johnson]

(05-23-2016, 08:44 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 1. Is he, though? I like AJ a bunch, but I think it might be a stretch to call him a top 5 WR right this second.
WR yard rankings...
2015: 8th
2014: 19th
2013: 5th
2012: 10th
2011: 17th

Really think that right now people who remove their orange tinted glasses would be hard pressed to honestly say AJ is a top 5 WR. Jones, Brown, Hopkins, Marshall, OBJ, Robinson, heck.. even Thomas put up more yards with some of the worst QB play in the league. That's not counting Nelson, Bryant, and Jeffery being hurt. Plus Hilton nipping at AJ's heels.

I think this is a case of AJ has been consistently very good, but he's never taken that next step forward. It's like his floor was ridiculously high coming into the league, but his ceiling was at or right near the exact same height, so there was no room for improvement. It seems other WRs who started with a lower floor are taking that step, though, and passing him. He's still a top 10 guy.

2. Kroft finished with 11/129/1 in 16 games/6 starts. Dude started two games where he had blank stat sheets. A third where his stats were 1 catch for 4 yards. I am not quite sure that's eating crow territory, Shake.


3. Agreed with you on that, though... with a SLIGHT alteration. I don't care who else fills out the depth chart, so long as it's not Brandon Tate, Greg Little, and Dane Sanzenbacher. LOL

First once you start playing in NFL, where you got drafted has little overall meaning.  If you are good, you are good.. so I don;t consider much on comparing a 1st round pick to a 3rd round pick etc over a career. 

As for judging a player, you really need I believe 4 to 5 years as a starter to really judge you since there are so many variables year to year.  With that said.. you look at AJ's numbers over a 5 year period right now.. some of the players you mentioned don;t compare to AJ  ie Marshall and Hopkins.  Granted Hopkins could be better but lets evaluate in two more years.  Jones and Brown are similar numbers overall. 

The big difference I see in last year numbers is targets.... AJ had 132 and just 117 the year before.  Last year Jones 203, Hopkins 192  Brown 193 and Marshall 173.   Give AJ even 175 targets last year, his numbers would be even higher  based on his YPC that would give him 1,600 yards last year and 13 TDS.. 

but think about what he still has accomplished over five years of service   1,234 yards per game, 14.9 YPC and 9 TDs  a season.. that is impressive and to me warrants top 5 type status especially when we start to factor in lack of targets last couple years.  

Finally lets see what happens over the next five years but if he averages the same the  next five, he would finish with 12,340 yards, 90 TDS which would put him around top 20 in yards and around top 10 in TDS in just 10 seasons.. that is possible HOF numbers for just 10 seasons

[*bfine32*]

In the HISTORY of the NFL there have been 2 WRs to go for over 1,000 yards in each of their 5 seasons. We have one of them

Bradon LaFell is one year removed from a 900 yard season and last year was the only season since his rookie year that he went for less than 600 yards (and that's only because he only played in 11 games)

Tyler Boyd was one of the top rated WRs in this draft and broke Larry Fitzgerald's records in college.

[Brownshoe]

(05-23-2016, 10:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: In the HISTORY of the NFL there have been 2 WRs to go for over 1,000 yards in each of their 5 seasons. We have one of them

Bradon LaFell is one year removed from a 900 yard season and last year was the only season since his rookie year that he went for less than 600 yards (and that's only because he only played in 11 games)

Tyler Boyd was one of the top rated WRs in this draft and broke Larry Fitzgerald's records in college.

How many WRs get drafted to a team where there next best receiver had 279 career yards? Most teams don't lose their #1 and #2 receiver in the same year. It's not like some of these rookies coming out can't get 1000 yards, it's that there's someone ahead or another vet taking some balls away from them.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-23-2016, 08:44 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 1. Is he, though? I like AJ a bunch, but I think it might be a stretch to call him a top 5 WR right this second.
WR yard rankings...
2015: 8th
2014: 19th
2013: 5th
2012: 10th
2011: 17th

Really think that right now people who remove their orange tinted glasses would be hard pressed to honestly say AJ is a top 5 WR. Jones, Brown, Hopkins, Marshall, OBJ, Robinson, heck.. even Thomas put up more yards with some of the worst QB play in the league. That's not counting Nelson, Bryant, and Jeffery being hurt. Plus Hilton nipping at AJ's heels.

I think this is a case of AJ has been consistently very good, but he's never taken that next step forward. It's like his floor was ridiculously high coming into the league, but his ceiling was at or right near the exact same height, so there was no room for improvement. It seems other WRs who started with a lower floor are taking that step, though, and passing him. He's still a top 10 guy.

2. Kroft finished with 11/129/1 in 16 games/6 starts. Dude started two games where he had blank stat sheets. A third where his stats were 1 catch for 4 yards. I am not quite sure that's eating crow territory, Shake.


3. Agreed with you on that, though... with a SLIGHT alteration. I don't care who else fills out the depth chart, so long as it's not Brandon Tate, Greg Little, and Dane Sanzenbacher. LOL

1. AJ's two worst seasons statistically were his rookie season and a season where he missed around 5 games - if you include the one where he was used as a "decoy" vs Denver. I think we can all agree that those 2 seasons aren't representative of the type of player AJ is right now. In the other 3 seasons, his average ranking was 7.7. 

So is it really a big stretch to say he's top 5? I don't think so. Keep in mind that the Bengals aren't quite as pass happy as some of these teams that have WR's who produced more. We only had 505 pass attempts last year, for example. While teams like the Giants and Falcons routinely pass 600+ times. If Green isn't top 5, he's definitely not far from it.

Now do I believe Green has gotten 100% out of his talent? That's a different story. There are things I believe he could improve on that would get him closer to #1.

2. It seems you're counting "starts" where Kroft may have lined up initially as a 2nd TE - probably to block. Just because he "started" in those games doesn't mean he was in the game plan as a receiver. I'm looking more at the 3 starts he had when Eifert went down. In those 3 starts, he went 9-108-1.

Sure, nothing spectacular, but that would average out to 576 yards over a full season. The TD catch was a big one. I think he held it down pretty good while Eifert missed time. I wasn't just talking about Kroft there, either. I was talking about Eifert as well. Plenty of people were down about him starting last year and many wanted to bring Gresh back. I'd say we did fine without Gresh, and I'm glad Kroft got some experience.

3. Yikes. Don't remind me. At least the FO learned something from that debacle. They actually took the WR spot seriously this offseason. I was afraid they'd just draft some mid-round guys and call it a day. Fortunately they brought in a vet and used a high pick on one. We might feel the loss of MLJ, but it could be much...much worse.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(05-23-2016, 09:22 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: First once you start playing in NFL, where you got drafted has little overall meaning.  If you are good, you are good.. so I don;t consider much on comparing a 1st round pick to a 3rd round pick etc over a career. 

As for judging a player, you really need I believe 4 to 5 years as a starter to really judge you since there are so many variables year to year.  With that said.. you look at AJ's numbers over a 5 year period right now.. some of the players you mentioned don;t compare to AJ  ie Marshall and Hopkins.  Granted Hopkins could be better but lets evaluate in two more years.  Jones and Brown are similar numbers overall. 

The big difference I see in last year numbers is targets.... AJ had 132 and just 117 the year before.  Last year Jones 203, Hopkins 192  Brown 193 and Marshall 173.   Give AJ even 175 targets last year, his numbers would be even higher  based on his YPC that would give him 1,600 yards last year and 13 TDS.. 

but think about what he still has accomplished over five years of service   1,234 yards per game, 14.9 YPC and 9 TDs  a season.. that is impressive and to me warrants top 5 type status especially when we start to factor in lack of targets last couple years.  

Finally lets see what happens over the next five years but if he averages the same the  next five, he would finish with 12,340 yards, 90 TDS which would put him around top 20 in yards and around top 10 in TDS in just 10 seasons.. that is possible HOF numbers for just 10 seasons

That is a downright silly argument, Essex. By no means does it take 4 to 5 years to find out what you have in players. That's right up there with the people who called Kirkpatrick a rookie for like 4 years.

-It took 2 to start a conversation and 3 to establish Geno Atkins at one of the best DT in the game right now without a doubt.
-It took Burfict 2 to make himself one of the best 4-3 LB in the NFL.
-OBJ was in the conversation to be among the best right from his rookie year.
-Adrian Peterson was one of the best from Day 1.
-It took Peyton Manning only 2 years.
-It took Antonio Brown 2 years (his second year was actually the first he got ANY starts, so by your 4-5 years of starting criteria, it only took him 1 year).
-It took AJ Green 2 years to be a top-10 guy.

etc, etc, etc

There is no way that it takes 4-5 years of starting to know what you have in a player, and how good they are.


- - - - - - - - -
As for his theoretical 10 year numbers, it WON'T be HoF numbers by the time he is eligible (5 years after retirement, so 10 years from now in your 10 year career scenario) because of how the game has changed...

Dante Lavelli ('46-'56): 386/6,488/72
Raymond Berry ('55-'67): 631/9,275/68
Charlie Joiner ('69-'86): 750/12,146/65
Tim Brown (''88-'04): 1,094/14,934/100

Chances are, you're going to need 1,300/20,000/130-type numbers in order to get in by the time AJ Green is eligible. Anquan Boldin is sitting on 13,195 yards and he probably won't make it in seeing as how there's 3 active players with more yards and Marshall will almost certainly pass him before he retires.

When Boldin entered the NFL in 2003, there were 2 QBs who passed for 4,000+ yards.
When AJ entered the NFL in 2011, there were 10 QBs who passed for 4,000+ yards and 3 who passed for 5,000+ yards.
Last year, even with all the QB injuries and backup QBs who were playing, there were still 12 QBs who passed for 4,000 yards.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Side note: You really don't think Marshall compares with AJ? He's been playing at a higher level than AJ for a bit now. Guy has put up at least 1,200 yard seasons with 4 different teams with a plethora of various shit QBs (Cutler, Orton, Henne, Thigpen, Moore, Campbell, McCown, Clausen, Fitzpatrick), including 2 seasons of 1,500+ yards.

Plus Hopkins has gone from 800 yards, to 1,200 yards, to 1,500 yards.. with some of the worst QBs in the league. (Schaub, Keenum, Fitzpatrick, Hoyer, Mallett, Weeden, Yates)


(Holy shit those are some really bad QBs. I knew they were bad, but actually typing all those out really hit harder than reading them. Lol)

[Essex Johnson]

(05-23-2016, 10:54 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That is a downright silly argument, Essex. By no means does it take 4 to 5 years to find out what you have in players. That's right up there with the people who called Kirkpatrick a rookie for like 4 years.

-It took 2 to start a conversation and 3 to establish Geno Atkins at one of the best DT in the game right now without a doubt.
-It took Burfict 2 to make himself one of the best 4-3 LB in the NFL.
-OBJ was in the conversation to be among the best right from his rookie year.
-Adrian Peterson was one of the best from Day 1.
-It took Peyton Manning only 2 years.
-It took Antonio Brown 2 years (his second year was actually the first he got ANY starts, so by your 4-5 years of starting criteria, it only took him 1 year).
-It took AJ Green 2 years to be a top-10 guy.

etc, etc, etc

There is no way that it takes 4-5 years of starting to know what you have in a player, and how good they are.


- - - - - - - - -
As for his theoretical 10 year numbers, it WON'T be HoF numbers by the time he is eligible (5 years after retirement, so 10 years from now in your 10 year career scenario) because of how the game has changed...

Dante Lavelli ('46-'56): 386/6,488/72
Raymond Berry ('55-'67): 631/9,275/68
Charlie Joiner ('69-'86): 750/12,146/65
Tim Brown (''88-'04): 1,094/14,934/100

Chances are, you're going to need 1,300/20,000/130-type numbers in order to get in by the time AJ Green is eligible. Anquan Boldin is sitting on 13,195 yards and he probably won't make it in seeing as how there's 3 active players with more yards and Marshall will almost certainly pass him before he retires.

When Boldin entered the NFL in 2003, there were 2 QBs who passed for 4,000+ yards.
When AJ entered the NFL in 2011, there were 10 QBs who passed for 4,000+ yards and 3 who passed for 5,000+ yards.
Last year, even with all the QB injuries and backup QBs who were playing, there were still 12 QBs who passed for 4,000 yards.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Side note: You really don't think Marshall compares with AJ? He's been playing at a higher level than AJ for a bit now. Guy has put up at least 1,200 yard seasons with 4 different teams with a plethora of various shit QBs (Cutler, Orton, Henne, Thigpen, Moore, Campbell, McCown, Clausen, Fitzpatrick), including 2 seasons of 1,500+ yards.

Plus Hopkins has gone from 800 yards, to 1,200 yards, to 1,500 yards.. with some of the worst QBs in the league. (Schaub, Keenum, Fitzpatrick, Hoyer, Mallett, Weeden, Yates)


(Holy shit those are some really bad QBs. I knew they were bad, but actually typing all those out really hit harder than reading them. Lol)

Obviously you did not read my post very well I said to fairly evaluate a player four to five years is very legitimate some players have great first year some players have great couple years but really you need some time to fairly evaluate a player so you're just plain wrong for my opinion, you also ignored what I thought was a very good point targets you're not going to get as high yards if you're not being targeted as often As for Hopkins i mentioned he is on a nice run let's see how he does with more weapons if his his stats go down the next two years are you going to say he's on a downturn spin. So you're saying AJ continues with those numbers you do not believe he's a outside possibility of Hall of Fame ???? If you don't you really are not looking at those his performance very well sorry just how it is as for Marshall nver said was not good but he's had some up-and-down years AJ stays consistent through his career he ends up a better player plain and simple . As for comparing eras and passing there's also something you're not taking into account there are way more number one/two/three type receivers than there ever were before the ball gets passed around a lot more to different players receivers running backs tight ends now so that 4000 yards you're talking about is spread out among many more players than previous players and other eras guess you didn't think about that one did you. I do agree there is inflated passing stats but even with taking that into account with what I pointed out I still believe AJ's numbers over 10 to 13-year career we'll put him on the possibility of Hall of Fame