Bengals working out Freeney

[XenoMorph]

Well we just opened up a roster spot by cutting a rookie UDFA LB... wonder if we fill that spot before camp?

[3wt]

(06-16-2016, 01:23 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Bengals seemed interested...  Now we don't know what his side is asking or what we are offering in terms of length or amount.

There is a whole month to go before Training camp.   freeney will make up his mind by then.

As far as his quote hes just talking the NFL in general.

the same token you say give up on hunt/ clark for a 1 year rental... then hunt/clark are gone and so is the one year rental next year.  there is a risk there and is something that should be considered... We know hunt was a project going in and he keeps getting praise every year but also has been hurt most of it.  Clark I think has been more buried than anything but I don't get to see practices.

There is pros and cons to both sides.  Every year its a gamble that a guy like freeney can still compete at that level the he did the last year.

The risk from my perspective would be any guaranteed money given to Freeney to come in and compete against two players who have not demonstrated a lot so far.  Conversely there is a risk in letting a proven pass rusher walk while you wait for two players to show something they have not really hinted at so far.

You would not have to let go of both players.  You would keep one and would have training camp to determine which 2 players are going to produce the most for you.

I agree that Freeney's remarks were not specifically targeted at the Bengals, but his point is valid.  Teams in general are sometimes overly committed to being right about their pick rather than keeping/ playing the player(s) that performs the best.   To me when you have a team close enough to being a Super Bowl roster you risk the up front money on someone who performed really well in a capacity that did not exist on our roster last year to our detriment at the end of close games.

If Hunt has truly turned it around and Clark has just been buried they can compete against one another to decide which one of them backs up MJ.  The other may get picked up by another team while we round out our front 7 with a pass rushing presence we have not had opposite Dunlap.

[Vanilla Heat]

(06-17-2016, 06:19 PM)3wt Wrote: The risk from my perspective would be any guaranteed money given to Freeney to come in and compete against two players who have not demonstrated a lot so far.  Conversely there is a risk in letting a proven pass rusher walk while you wait for two players to show something they have not really hinted at so far.

You would not have to let go of both players.  You would keep one and would have training camp to determine which 2 players are going to produce the most for you.

I agree that Freeney's remarks were not specifically targeted at the Bengals, but his point is valid.  Teams in general are sometimes overly committed to being right about their pick rather than keeping/ playing the player(s) that performs the best.   To me when you have a team close enough to being a Super Bowl roster you risk the up front money on someone who performed really well in a capacity that did not exist on our roster last year to our detriment at the end of close games.

If Hunt has truly turned it around and Clark has just been buried they can compete against one another to decide which one of them backs up MJ.  The other may get picked up by another team while we round out our front 7 with a pass rushing presence we have not had opposite Dunlap.

What does Hunt have to turn around? He's played well every time he's gotten an opportunity.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-17-2016, 10:02 PM)Vanilla Heat Wrote: What does Hunt have to turn around? He's played well every time he's gotten an opportunity.

While i do believe Hunt has shown more than Clarke he still does not have any bend to him.

This needs to be tweaked for Hunt to make the most of his ability.

Margus needs to watch Carlos Dunlap more.

[BengalChris]

(06-17-2016, 10:02 PM)Vanilla Heat Wrote: What does Hunt have to turn around? He's played well every time he's gotten an opportunity.

Hunt's opportunities have come in preseason against 2nd and 3rd string OLs mostly. If he were doing it in practice he'd be getting regular season playing time.

That's how Marvin does it. If you don't get it done in practice you don't get on the field and if you do it in practice, you do get on the field. Hunt hasn't gotten on the field. It's not like we're so stacked at DE that playing opportunities didn't exist for Hunt the last two years.

[SunsetBengal]

(06-19-2016, 04:12 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: While i do believe Hunt has shown more than Clarke he still does not have any bend to him.

This needs to be tweaked for Hunt to make the most of his ability.

Margus needs to watch Carlos Dunlap more.

Agreed, Margus could learn much about using his hands appropriately, by following the technique of Carlos Dunlap.

(06-19-2016, 04:20 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Hunt's opportunities have come in preseason against 2nd and 3rd string OLs mostly. If he were doing it in practice he'd be getting regular season playing time.

That's how Marvin does it. If you don't get it done in practice you don't get on the field and if you do it in practice, you do get on the field. Hunt hasn't gotten on the field. It's not like we're so stacked at DE that playing opportunities didn't exist for Hunt the last two years.

Once again, Hunt will look like a monster, when he's easily overpowering bums in preseason.  At this point, some of the blame falls upon Marvin himself, for Margus not getting the technique training that he has so desperately needed.  His raw power and athleticism are through the roof, when it comes to men his size, at the position he plays.  They need to be working on him to take the "struggle" with the OT naturally, and expect to have to fight, hand to hand, every down.  As it is, he seems to hesitate and revert to thinking, rather than simply acting, when he doesn't immediately have the power edge on an opponent.

[jfkbengals]

(06-19-2016, 07:02 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Agreed, Margus could learn much about using his hands appropriately, by following the technique of Carlos Dunlap.


Once again, Hunt will look like a monster, when he's easily overpowering bums in preseason.  At this point, some of the blame falls upon Marvin himself, for Margus not getting the technique training that he has so desperately needed.  His raw power and athleticism are through the roof, when it comes to men his size, at the position he plays.  They need to be working on him to take the "struggle" with the OT naturally, and expect to have to fight, hand to hand, every down.  As it is, he seems to hesitate and revert to thinking, rather than simply acting, when he doesn't immediately have the power edge on an opponent.

Training like setting him down with Kevin Greene to review Greene's film and Q&A it?

Maybe it was more of an issue that Hayes couldn't find a way to teach it to a guy who had a very limited background in the game.

[Bilbo Saggins]

(06-16-2016, 01:23 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: the same token you say give up on hunt/ clark for a 1 year rental... then hunt/clark are gone and so is the one year rental next year.  there is a risk there and is something that should be considered... We know hunt was a project going in and he keeps getting praise every year but also has been hurt most of it.  Clark I think has been more buried than anything but I don't get to see practices.

There is pros and cons to both sides.  Every year its a gamble that a guy like freeney can still compete at that level the he did the last year.

Is the opportunity cost of cutting one of them really that high?  Say they decide to cut whoever looked the worst out of Hunt/Clarke - would that guy go on to sign a multi-year deal with another team or would they be back on the market in one year's time?  Would they even be able to beat out the rookie/FA crop the year after?  

As far as Freeney himself goes, he seems like too perfect of a fit to pass up.  This is a nasty D.  This is a deep D.  This D however may have an achilles heel: they don't appear to have a lot of guys who can put heat on the QB in a hurry.  Atkins and Dunlap are elite, MJ is good, Peko is mostly a run stuffer, and the other guys are either question marks or fit under the category of "solid rotational guy at best".  Signing Freeney would cover for injury(2013 flashbacks of four guys unable to generate any pressure   ), allow for more plays where only 4 dudes rush, and would allow for a rotation where you don't have to rely on a bunch of DTs and 3-techniques to put heat on a qb.  Without adding another true DE who can bend they're going to have to either blitz more often or cover for a longer period, especially if Dunlap or Atkins have to miss any time.  

I'd roll the dice on Freeney all day long.  On top of how our D depth looks, he has that, "Swing hard in case you hit" factor going for him.

[*ochocincos*]

(06-20-2016, 01:08 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote:
Is the opportunity cost of cutting one of them really that high?  Say they decide to cut whoever looked the worst out of Hunt/Clarke - would that guy go on to sign a multi-year deal with another team or would they be back on the market in one year's time?  Would they even be able to beat out the rookie/FA crop the year after?  

As far as Freeney himself goes, he seems like too perfect of a fit to pass up.  This is a nasty D.  This is a deep D.  This D however may have an achilles heel: they don't appear to have a lot of guys who can put heat on the QB in a hurry.  Atkins and Dunlap are elite, MJ is good, Peko is mostly a run stuffer, and the other guys are either question marks or fit under the category of "solid rotational guy at best".  Signing Freeney would cover for injury(2013 flashbacks of four guys unable to generate any pressure   ), allow for more plays where only 4 dudes rush, and would allow for a rotation where you don't have to rely on a bunch of DTs and 3-techniques to put heat on a qb.  Without adding another true DE who can bend they're going to have to either blitz more often or cover for a longer period, especially if Dunlap or Atkins have to miss any time.  

I'd roll the dice on Freeney all day long.  On top of how our D depth looks, he has that, "Swing hard in case you hit" factor going for him.

I would think there would be more willingness to drop Hunt and keep Clarke given Hunt is in his final year of his contract and he'll be 29 at the start of this coming season.
Will Clarke only just turned 25 last month.

I'm with you that this team doesn't really have many guys who can get after the passer. I'm hoping that we see a quality edge rusher selected (early) in next year's draft.

[XenoMorph]

(06-20-2016, 01:08 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: Is the opportunity cost of cutting one of them really that high?  Say they decide to cut whoever looked the worst out of Hunt/Clarke - would that guy go on to sign a multi-year deal with another team or would they be back on the market in one year's time?  Would they even be able to beat out the rookie/FA crop the year after?  

As far as Freeney himself goes, he seems like too perfect of a fit to pass up.  This is a nasty D.  This is a deep D.  This D however may have an achilles heel: they don't appear to have a lot of guys who can put heat on the QB in a hurry.  Atkins and Dunlap are elite, MJ is good, Peko is mostly a run stuffer, and the other guys are either question marks or fit under the category of "solid rotational guy at best".  Signing Freeney would cover for injury(2013 flashbacks of four guys unable to generate any pressure   ), allow for more plays where only 4 dudes rush, and would allow for a rotation where you don't have to rely on a bunch of DTs and 3-techniques to put heat on a qb.  Without adding another true DE who can bend they're going to have to either blitz more often or cover for a longer period, especially if Dunlap or Atkins have to miss any time.  

I'd roll the dice on Freeney all day long.  On top of how our D depth looks, he has that, "Swing hard in case you hit" factor going for him.

im just saying at this point in their minds they have invested how many years into hunt... If hes gonna pay off for someone they want it to be them. hunt or clark likely doesn't make the team... but it will be the final cuts when it happens...

Freeney im guessing has offers from teams and is picking his option

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-19-2016, 07:02 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Agreed, Margus could learn much about using his hands appropriately, by following the technique of Carlos Dunlap.


Once again, Hunt will look like a monster, when he's easily overpowering bums in preseason.  At this point, some of the blame falls upon Marvin himself, for Margus not getting the technique training that he has so desperately needed.  His raw power and athleticism are through the roof, when it comes to men his size, at the position he plays.  They need to be working on him to take the "struggle" with the OT naturally, and expect to have to fight, hand to hand, every down.  As it is, he seems to hesitate and revert to thinking, rather than simply acting, when he doesn't immediately have the power edge on an opponent.

I never really liked Hayes as our DL coach. Sure, Geno and Dunlap have done great here with him as the coach
but i lay a lot of blame on Hayes for the no shows named Hunt and Clarke. I really like the Burney signing and
this should help out either Hunt, Clarke or Hardison. One of these guys will have to show something eventually.

(06-19-2016, 11:13 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: Training like setting him down with Kevin Greene to review Greene's film and Q&A it?

Maybe it was more of an issue that Hayes couldn't find a way to teach it to a guy who had a very limited background in the game.

Love that Greene was working with Hunt, this could really help him out and get him to bend more.

Spot on about Hunt's limited football knowledge. Tough place to put your DL coach but i am sure Hayes wanted him.

So that also is on him. Again, this could change with Burney.

[SunsetBengal]

(06-20-2016, 03:45 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I never really liked Hayes as our DL coach. Sure, Geno and Dunlap have done great here with him as the coach
but i lay a lot of blame on Hayes for the no shows named Hunt and Clarke. I really like the Burney signing and
this should help out either Hunt, Clarke or Hardison. One of these guys will have to show something eventually.


Love that Greene was working with Hunt, this could really help him out and get him to bend more.

Spot on about Hunt's limited football knowledge. Tough place to put your DL coach but i am sure Hayes wanted him.

So that also is on him. Again, this could change with Burney.

The team knew that Hunt was going to require a lot of intense, specialized technique training, with him only having two years of football experience in his entire life.  I realize that the NFL CBA rules limit the amount of time that a team can put into players.  However, with Margus being a professional, he should have been seeking out some individualized mentoring, on a private basis, from day 1.

[Sled21]

Don't forget, Hunt was struggling most of last year with a back injury. Hard to get leverage nursing a sore back....

[Benton]

(06-20-2016, 05:06 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The team knew that Hunt was going to require a lot of intense, specialized technique training, with him only having two years of football experience in his entire life.  I realize that the NFL CBA rules limit the amount of time that a team can put into players.  However, with Margus being a professional, he should have been seeking out some individualized mentoring, on a private basis, from day 1.

That's my issue with Hunt. There's only so much the team can do for him. If he wants to play at the NFL level, he has to have that effort outside the organization. And he may have had some, but I've not heard about it. Everything I've read or heard about him only talks about his conditioning, not him working with private coaches or even other players.

[XenoMorph]

(06-20-2016, 06:30 PM)Benton Wrote: That's my issue with Hunt. There's only so much the team can do for him. If he wants to play at the NFL level, he has to have that effort outside the organization. And he may have had some, but I've not heard about it. Everything I've read or heard about him only talks about his conditioning, not him working with private coaches or even other players.

well this year he was getting some private tutoring for DE in the offseason.  but had not heard about it before this season

New DE coach might help as well...  MJ and Dunlap were already good when we drafted them but Hayes didn't develop much outside of that.

[yellowxdiscipline]

Can we just fast forward to the inevitable?

Sign Freeney
Cut Clarke or Hunt
Draft a DE next year

[Luvnit2]

(06-21-2016, 10:51 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Can we just fast forward to the inevitable?

Sign Freeney
Cut Clarke or Hunt
Draft a DE next year

Would love Freeney to replace Gilberry

I agree, it is time for Hunt to shine or cut bait.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-20-2016, 05:06 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The team knew that Hunt was going to require a lot of intense, specialized technique training, with him only having two years of football experience in his entire life.  I realize that the NFL CBA rules limit the amount of time that a team can put into players.  However, with Margus being a professional, he should have been seeking out some individualized mentoring, on a private basis, from day 1.

Yeah he should of.

Hopefully it pays of with Greene. Dude was a damn fine pass rusher back in the day.

[NKYRob]

Looks like Freeney is picking the Falcons.

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/760570466553761792

[The Real Deal]

(08-02-2016, 05:23 PM)NKYRob Wrote: Looks like Freeney is picking the Falcons.

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/760570466553761792

His loss.