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(05-31-2016, 11:57 AM)GodFather Wrote: If odds eventually win out wouldn't the Browns be a powerhouse team by now? 
Its ok you keep a positive approach, I give ya credit for it. I on the other hand have the approach that if I touch a hot stove seven time and it burns me, chances are Im going to get burnt again if I touch it.
Isn't it funny how every fanbase has that segment that thinks the young guy on the bench "could be the next Tom Brady" while the Browns have started roughly 30 QBs since 1999 and haven't found anyone who is GOOD, much less Tom Brady?
(05-31-2016, 12:23 PM)ItsOdellThurman Wrote: If odds were bound to win out, then 34 of the 50 Super Bowls wouldn't belong to only 8 franchises.
In fact, 9 franchises have been in the NFL since the Super Bowl started and have never won a title.
Logic...it hurts.
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(05-30-2016, 06:18 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Thank god he was not.. since then we have made the playoffs 5 times.. thank you Marvin
Meh. We still would've wound up with AJ Green or Julio Jones no matter who the HC was. The defensive pieces (Atkins, Dunlap, Leon, Nelson, Pacman, etc) were mostly there. So was Zimmer, who easily could've held his job through a coaching change.
The biggest question is would we still hire Jay Gruden? He was the one who wanted Andy Dalton. Mike Brown supposedly wanted Mallet or Kaepernick.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
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(05-31-2016, 01:59 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Meh. We still would've wound up with AJ Green or Julio Jones no matter who the HC was. The defensive pieces (Atkins, Dunlap, Leon, Nelson, Pacman, etc) were mostly there. So was Zimmer, who easily could've held his job through a coaching change.
The biggest question is would we still hire Jay Gruden? He was the one who wanted Andy Dalton. Mike Brown supposedly wanted Mallet or Kaepernick.
This is something I bring up more than a few times. Our GM with 20 years of experience had to be talked into drafting our BEST QB THE FRANCHISE EVER SAW IN 50 YEARS over a giant bust and a guy who lost his job to a giant bust by a rookie OC fresh out of the Arena League. If this is true, holy moly do we owe a lot to Jay Gruden.
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(05-31-2016, 02:06 PM)Nately120 Wrote: This is something I bring up more than a few times. Our GM with 20 years of experience had to be talked into drafting our BEST QB THE FRANCHISE EVER SAW IN 50 YEARS over a giant bust and a guy who lost his job to a giant bust by a rookie OC fresh out of the Arena League. If this is true, holy moly do we owe a lot to Jay Gruden.
This franchise owes a debt of gratitude to Gruden. Most people seemed glad when he left and all I could think was "be glad he was here to draft Dalton".
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(05-31-2016, 02:26 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: This franchise owes a debt of gratitude to Gruden. Most people seemed glad when he left and all I could think was "be glad he was here to draft Dalton".
Exactly, particularly since we have a thread on this board where we are debating if Dalton can/will be the best QB this franchise has ever had.
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(05-31-2016, 02:06 PM)Nately120 Wrote: This is something I bring up more than a few times. Our GM with 20 years of experience had to be talked into drafting our BEST QB THE FRANCHISE EVER SAW IN 50 YEARS over a giant bust and a guy who lost his job to a giant bust by a rookie OC fresh out of the Arena League. If this is true, holy moly do we owe a lot to Jay Gruden.
I wanted to swap Gruden for Hue, but I'll always be a fan of Gruden's for not only drafting Dalton, but getting him ready quickly after the lockout. If the Skins ever fire him, I'd probably take him back depending on how Zampese does.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
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By the time Gruden left I wasn't very high on him. He's impressed me with what he's done with Cousins and Washington. I didn't give him the credit he was due. Thought his play calling was all over the place, but he's proven he can develop a qb and HC a team. Props to him.
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(05-31-2016, 04:14 PM)jj22 Wrote: By the time Gruden left I wasn't very high on him. He's impressed me with what he's done with Cousins and Washington. I didn't give him the credit he was due. Thought his play calling was all over the place, but he's proven he can develop a qb and HC a team. Props to him.
Even if Gruden is a rubbish OC/HC (which he doesn't seem to be) he would still be pretty valuable for talking Mike Brown into Dalton over Mallett/Kapernick and Dan Snyder into Cousins over RGIII. I guess the jury is still technically out on Cousins vs. RGIII, but there is no denying this guy has had 2 coaching gigs and he's talked 2 legendarily stubborn owners out of making a very wrong decision in each case.
It's almost unbelievable the way he talked owners out of their love affairs with high upside guys in order to give more effective but less instantly-interesting lower-round whitebread dudes the starting gigs. That's damn impressive.
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At some point players have to step on the field and want to win...want to take that next step..and then take that next step...A coach does not cause what has happened in some of these playoff losses...
I had to laugh at the golf comparison...There are pro golfers that go their whole career and never hit a hole in one...Does not mean that they never can reach great pinnacles in their careers...
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(05-30-2016, 09:30 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You know, i get you but players can carry coaches at times.
That is what i am hoping for, i cannot be that negative, it is just not in me and
even if i am a fool i would rather be one than someone that is right about our
down fall. Odds eventually win out and we are due and have the best team in
the league IMHO.
My only fear is that the year was last year, and a broken thumb derailed it.....
"Better send those refunds..."
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(06-01-2016, 12:28 PM)Wyche Wrote: My only fear is that the year was last year, and a broken thumb derailed it.....
I have to say the #1 schedule and the fact that we are sans Burfict for 4 games and hoping to see no effect of replacing our OC, #2 and #3 WRs, and possibly spend a decent fraction of the season without Eifert makes me really wish we made the most of our chances in 2013 and 2015. I could be overly pessimistic, but after the greatness that was the Dalton-led 2015 team I'm a bit concerned with all the changes and subtractions happening thus far.
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(05-27-2016, 01:09 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I want to know why 13 entire rosters of NFL players have felt so inclined to let this man down and crush his dreams of winning a playoff game. After that I want to know why 25 years worth of NFL players have chosen to deny Mike Brown the success he so richly deserves.
A combined 38 years of futility for these two men, all thanks to a mere thousand football players. Bastards.
Honestly, I think we need to do a complete overhaul of the roster until we actually find some players willing to win for these two guys, because so far...they have REFUSED.
I've got to say - in response to several posts - that:
A) It is the players that win the games. Good coaches put them into position to do it and equip them. Last year was one of several teams that Marvin has fielded that were prepared to win but did not. We have had 2 generations of defensive coordinators who make excellent adjustments on the fly and we had an offensive coordinator that also made good adjustments last year.
B) We had a first class roster last year that was a skosh from beating the team who believed they would have beaten Denver if they had Antonio Brown - with a backup quarterback and an assist from the referees.
We have a number of players that have the fire in their guts to win: Adam Jones, Vontez Burfict, Andy Dalton, A.J. Green, A.J. McCarron, Dunlap, Peko, Shawn Williams, Iloka, Geno, Whit, Dre Kirk, Hill, Gio, Hewitt.
We have a fine roster and a good coaching staff. Take out a few bone headed behaviors in the last 30 seconds of the game and we were headed towards a possible Super Bowl.
I think we're headed back there despite losing our #2 and #3 receivers and starting free safety. And I love the new blood: Dansby, Boyd, Billings, WJ3, Cole, Vigil - and hopefully Freeney.
I think they can do it for Marvin, and I think he has them ready to do it.
I can't wait to get into the season.
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