Will longevity result in Dalton as best Bengals QB ever?

[motoarch]

(03-17-2020, 01:58 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Nah, any passing numbers are going to go up between the 80s and now.  Stats-wise Ken Anderson's 1981 MVP season would net him something like the 10th ranked QB or so in 2019.  Context is everything on stuff like this, so I get it.  

The short of it is, if you are a franchise with passing stats that have stood for 20+ years there is a good chance you've been in QB hell for a long time.  For example, the Chicago Bears still have single season passing records in yards and TDs held by Erik Kramer from 1995.  That's brutal.

Correct.

For better context it would be interesting to compare Anderson's MVP season to the last 5 MVP seasons and see how they compare.  In that context Dalton's number will not look so good.

[BengalChris]

(03-17-2020, 01:08 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Why don't you read the post, literally ABOVE yours?

He was just doing a numbers comparison and even said back in 2016, that he would need to sniff success or leaderboards to overtake Anderson.

Well, I didn't notice it was a old thread. Thought it was all new. LOL

 

[TecmoBengals]

(03-17-2020, 03:39 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Well, I didn't notice it was a old thread. Thought it was all new. LOL

 

That's on me for bumping my really, really, really old thread. My bad.

[grampahol]

I've always had a soft spot for necromania myself.. "And he rose from the dead to give us ever lasting QB life.."

[TSwigZ]

After Joe Burrow wins us a super bowl he’ll cement himself as the greatest Bengal ever

[Nicomo Cosca]

Holy thread resurrection! That reminds me, where has Pistons been?

[grampahol]

Just you guys wait and see..If I live to 80 I'll personally resurrect this very thread myself to announce I'm 80 and Joe Burrow is retired as a gazillionaire.. That said..I doubt I'll make it to 80. I have no desire to live as a doting, elderly old man with severe memory problems. I've been a caregiver to elderly folks for the better part of the past 20 years. I want nothing to do with being that old myself.

[JSR18]

(05-29-2016, 06:15 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I believe most would agree the main Bengals franchise QBs throughout the organization’s history are Ken Anderson, Boomer Esiason, Carson Palmer, and Andy Dalton.  The four QBs rank in the top four for franchise history in games played by a Bengals QB:  Anderson – 192, Boomer – 134, Palmer – 97, and Dalton – 77.

My question for the forum posters, if Dalton continues to play long enough and passes Palmer in games and then reaches total games played similar to Boomer and Anderson, does it make him the best Bengals QB ever?  Dalton does play in the modern-pass friendly QB league, but he is in contention to break all-time Bengal QB records.  A small sample of stats:

Dalton ranks 4th for completions:
1. Anderson – 2654
2. Palmer – 2024
3. Boomer – 2015
4. Dalton – 1556

Dalton ranks 4th in yards thrown:
1. Anderson – 32838
2. Boomer – 27149
3. Palmer – 22694
4. Dalton – 18008

Dalton ranks 4th for TDs:
1. Anderson – 197
2. Boomer – 187
3. Palmer – 154
4. Dalton 124

I understand there are other statistics to consider, season win totals, Pro Bowls, MVP awards, trips to playoffs, playoff wins, Super Bowl appearances, and other factors to consider when determining who is the best all-time Bengals QB.

If Andy Dalton has longevity as a Bengals QB does he have a case for being the Bengals all-time franchise, best QB over Anderson, Boomer, and Palmer?

  As soon as AD gets traded, he becomes a moot point. He could go to and win multiple Super Bowls for another team and it doesn't matter.


 Outta Stripes, outta mind.

Thats like saying if Tom Brady would sign here, all those Super Bowl wins become the Bengals...

As it stands the best Bengals QB ever is shared by K. Anderson and Boomer (Super Bowls). The Best Bengals QB ever will be the next QB who takes the Bengals to a Super Bowl and wins it...

[TecmoBengals]

(03-18-2020, 01:16 AM)grampahol Wrote: Just you guys wait and see..If I live to 80 I'll personally resurrect this very thread myself to announce I'm 80 and Joe Burrow is retired as a gazillionaire.. That said..I doubt I'll make it to 80. I have no desire to live as a doting, elderly old man with severe memory problems. I've been a caregiver to elderly folks for the better part of the past 20 years. I want nothing to do with being that old myself.

No sir, you aren't going to resurrect this thread.  You're going to be posting in a new thread about Burrow's greatness as the absolute best Bengals QB of all time. 

[TecmoBengals]

Now that there is apparent finality to Dalton's career with the Bengals, I'll resurrect this thread for a second time.

The stats:
Dalton ranks 1st for completions.
1. Dalton - 2757
2. Anderson – 2654
3. Palmer – 2024
4. Boomer – 2015

Dalton ranks 2nd in yards thrown:
1. Anderson – 32838
2. Dalton - 31,594
3. Boomer – 27149
4. Palmer – 22694

Dalton ranks 1st for TDs:
1. Dalton - 204
2. Anderson – 197
3. Boomer – 187
4. Palmer – 154

I say the answer to my initial 2016 question is, "No." Anderson & Boomer are still the Bengals GOATs at QB followed by Dalton & Palmer.

[Nicomo Cosca]

It’s not even close. Dalton was never an MVP or led his team to a SB. You have to judge him against his peers, and not against guys that played it totally different eras.

[BengalFanInNJ]

How many posts did it take for you guys to realize that the thread was an old one?

Took me 4 posts. I can be kind of slow sometimes. Doctor says my brain don't work too good at times.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

Andy is #3 for me. His longevity and the fact he played in a more pass happy league put his numbers higher than the others.....but Boomer was league MVP and Anderson led the league in passing, twice. Palmer in TDs once.

Andy never had the higher end talent those guys had. Yes, he made 3 pro bowls, but I think 2 of them were because other QBs got hurt. I put him ahead of Carson for being such a class act for so long. But I do not view him as a elite QB at any point. A good one? Yes. Elite? No.

[JSR18]

I have to go with Boomer #1, Anderson #2 and Dalton #3.

Boomer was league MVP and took his team to a Super Bowl.

Anderson led his team to a Super Bowl.

Dalton led his teams to more playoffs than Palmer did...

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

Bengals top 5 Quarterbacks in my eyes:



1. Ken Anderson ('71 to '86) 91-81 4 Pro Bowls 1 1st team All-Pro
I don't really see how anyone argues against Ken being the #1 QB in the franchise. Most wins. Damn good stats considering he played in a less pass happy era and took us to the Super Bowl. Also the only one on my list to spend his career with one team. And the mustache, come on it's amazing.


2. Boomer Esiason ('84 to '92, '97) 62-61 3 Pro Bowls 1 1st team All-Pro
If nothing else taking us to a Super Bowl plus being on the franchise QB list will shoot you straight to the top. I wasn't born until '89, so I'm just looking at stats and records and so forth, but I'd put Boomer second just for the Super Bowl.


3. Andy Dalton ('11 to '19) 70-61 3 Pro Bowls
He never did get a playoff win, but 5 straight playoff appearances for a 2nd round QB on a team that frankly has not been very good for the past 30 years is still a hell of an accomplishment. And he's a class act guy.


4. Carson Palmer ('04 to '10) 46-51 2 Pro Bowls
He did have one magical season that maybe could have led to a Super Bowl or at least a playoff victory, but we'll never know. I really do wonder how his career here would have changed without the knee injury. Plenty of good QB's never get back to where they were before an injury like that.


5. Jeff Blake ('94 to '99) 25-41 1 Pro Bowl
Really we've only had 4 franchise Quarterbacks in our existence (the guys above), but Jeff Blake did go to a pro bowl and played pretty well I reckon for how awful we were in the 90's.

[*Nately120*]

Anderson and Boomer were MVPs and made it to the SB but they both played during the Paul Brown era and Boomer showed how much he wanted to play for Mike Brown. Those two are on the top of the pile, but they didn't have to play for Mike Brown, either. Well, Boomer mostly dodged that, but you know.

Palmer and Dalton both seem rather equal to me because they both had to deal with Mike Brown and they both got hung out to dry later in their Bengals careers. Palmer came closer to legitimately threatening to wrest the NFL from the Mannings, Tom Brady, and Pig Ben but Dalton went to the playoffs 5 times in a row. Palmer left in a burst of sour grapes, but Dalton stuck around for 4 boring and god-awful losing seasons in a row that weren't all his fault but really took the shine off his promising start. As disappointing as some of the Palmer-led seasons were at no point were Bengals fans cheering for us to lose so we could draft Palmer's replacement...or maybe some were, there are always some fans that want a new QB every year or two.

Any time I find myself being disappointed in Palmer/Dalton I realize how much we are all hoping that Mike Brown has finally changed his modus operandi now that Burrow is here, so there is that.

[TecmoBengals]

(04-30-2020, 06:30 PM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: Bengals top 5 Quarterbacks in my eyes:



1. Ken Anderson ('71 to '86) 91-81 4 Pro Bowls 1 1st team All-Pro
I don't really see how anyone argues against Ken being the #1 QB in the franchise. Most wins. Damn good stats considering he played in a less pass happy era and took us to the Super Bowl. Also the only one on my list to spend his career with one team. And the mustache, come on it's amazing.


2. Boomer Esiason ('84 to '92, '97) 62-61 3 Pro Bowls 1 1st team All-Pro
If nothing else taking us to a Super Bowl plus being on the franchise QB list will shoot you straight to the top. I wasn't born until '89, so I'm just looking at stats and records and so forth, but I'd put Boomer second just for the Super Bowl.


3. Andy Dalton ('11 to '19) 70-61 3 Pro Bowls
He never did get a playoff win, but 5 straight playoff appearances for a 2nd round QB on a team that frankly has not been very good for the past 30 years is still a hell of an accomplishment. And he's a class act guy.


4. Carson Palmer ('04 to '10) 46-51 2 Pro Bowls
He did have one magical season that maybe could have led to a Super Bowl or at least a playoff victory, but we'll never know. I really do wonder how his career here would have changed without the knee injury. Plenty of good QB's never get back to where they were before an injury like that.


5. Jeff Blake ('94 to '99) 25-41 1 Pro Bowl
Really we've only had 4 franchise Quarterbacks in our existence (the guys above), but Jeff Blake did go to a pro bowl and played pretty well I reckon for how awful we were in the 90's.

Good post, but admittedly I thought Burrow was sneaking in at #5. 

[BengalChris]

(05-29-2016, 06:15 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I believe most would agree the main Bengals franchise QBs throughout the organization’s history are Ken Anderson, Boomer Esiason, Carson Palmer, and Andy Dalton.  The four QBs rank in the top four for franchise history in games played by a Bengals QB:  Anderson – 192, Boomer – 134, Palmer – 97, and Dalton – 77.

My question for the forum posters, if Dalton continues to play long enough and passes Palmer in games and then reaches total games played similar to Boomer and Anderson, does it make him the best Bengals QB ever?  Dalton does play in the modern-pass friendly QB league, but he is in contention to break all-time Bengal QB records.  A small sample of stats:

Dalton ranks 4th for completions:
1. Anderson – 2654
2. Palmer – 2024
3. Boomer – 2015
4. Dalton – 1556

Dalton ranks 4th in yards thrown:
1. Anderson – 32838
2. Boomer – 27149
3. Palmer – 22694
4. Dalton – 18008

Dalton ranks 4th for TDs:
1. Anderson – 197
2. Boomer – 187
3. Palmer – 154
4. Dalton 124

I understand there are other statistics to consider, season win totals, Pro Bowls, MVP awards, trips to playoffs, playoff wins, Super Bowl appearances, and other factors to consider when determining who is the best all-time Bengals QB.

If Andy Dalton has longevity as a Bengals QB does he have a case for being the Bengals all-time franchise, best QB over Anderson, Boomer, and Palmer?

They are each from a different era rules wise.

When Anderson played there were two fewer playoff spots in each conference, he was league MVP, as was Boomer. Anderson also won passing titles. Dalton never received a single MVP vote, let alone actually winning the award.

In the 5 seasons the Bengals went to the playoffs with Dalton, Dalton would have only played in a playoff game in one of those seasons under the same rules that Anderson played under.

Anderson is still my guy for the best ever Bengals Franchise QB. I would rate Dalton over Palmer though.

 

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(04-30-2020, 08:02 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Good post, but admittedly I thought Burrow was sneaking in at #5. 

He ain't done shit. That's like putting Akili Smith as #3 before his rookie year. Don't get me wrong I hope he's the Bengals savior like everyone else, but I'll believe it when I see it. And I think it was our best pick at QB since Carson.

[kalibengal]

If Burrow gets a SB and is done in 4 yrs due to injury ...he would be best QB.