Hall and Bengals Still Talking Return

[Shake n Blake]

What happened? I thought our FO was super concerned about signing aging players and that's why they passed on Freeney?

[J24]

I would only sign him if someone in the secondary got hurt.

[BFritz21]

(06-08-2016, 12:23 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: What happened? I thought our FO was super concerned about signing aging players and that's why they passed on Freeney?

Maybe they meant outside FAs.

[XenoMorph]

(06-08-2016, 12:36 PM)J24 Wrote: I would only sign him if someone in the secondary got hurt.

Nothing higher than vet min.... we made him pretty wealthy over the years..   but have others to pay still.

This might be something they are exploring as an after the season starts signing. that way his full year isn't fully guaranteed

[Beaker]

(06-07-2016, 08:10 PM)jason Wrote: An unnecessary and sentimental move.

I agree. I appreciate what Leon did for this team. But he is now too slow to be an effective CB in this league. Time for him to find his life's work.

[wolfkaosaun]

(06-08-2016, 12:23 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: What happened? I thought our FO was super concerned about signing aging players and that's why they passed on Freeney?

Just saw from Paul Dehner today that Freeney is still a possibility and more likely to happen. Whereas Hall coming back seems like a longshot and don't expect it to happen.

[*bfine32*]

(06-08-2016, 09:59 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: There would go are good passing defense right out the window.  Hall isn't a premier cb anymore.

He was damn sure better than Dre. matter of fact i think every CB in the NFL with a minimum of 500 snaps was better that Dre except 2.

[Bengal Dude]

I wouldn't be too upset if we brought Leon back. He's one of my favorite Bengals of all time. However, we have to see what we have in our younger CBs. After this upcoming season, we have to decide if we're going to pick up Dennard's option. With all of the hype we're seeing thrown at WJ3, I'd like to see him get some Dime snaps this year.

[SFmajor]

(06-07-2016, 06:19 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Leon Hall and the Bengals are still talking about a possible return to Cincinnati.

Look, I know he's 31 and past his prime, but I'd love to bring him back because, as old as he is, he'll most likely be on a vet minimum deal, and he'll be in the slot covering receivers or playing safety, so not like he'll be left on an island out wide covering a team's #1 or #2 receiver.

Leon has ball skills and instincts that you just can't teach, so I think he'd be a valuable asset to this team.

So far, the Giants, Falcons and Dolphins have expressed interest in Hall, and none of them appear close to signing the 31-year-old defensive back, so I think the chances of him signing here are very likely, especially because he'll want to get what he's come so close to getting when he started here a decade ago- a playoff win.

There's more in the article, including how it says we paid him so well that the least he can do is sign a friendly contract here.

Being a DB pre-tree, I've always had a love for Hall since we drafted him, so I'd love to see him stay with us so we can get him a playoff win or two!

Well, the first few words in your post say it all. Hall had a great career, but with him recovering from back surgery it might be time for him to hang up his cleats and grab a clip board as a NFL asst. DB coach.

[*Go Cards*]

Would not bother me at all to see Leon back in stripes.

[Bryan]

I always thought if given the chance Leon could transition successfully to safety. I understand Williams is their guy but Leon backing him up wouldn't be the worst idea.

[Arturo Bandini]

Can be used at CB and Safety so yep

[*jason*]

I think Josh Shaw can be a CB/ S hybrid if the Bengals so desperately need one. I don't think they do. If there's some kind of emergency injury situation during the season, they maybe give him a call. The fact that he isn't on a roster speaks volumes to me. There isn't a high demand for him around the league or in Cincinnati.

[fredtoast]

No other teams are interested in Hall because of his back surgery. If the Bengals are talking to Hall it is just keeping the option open of bringing him in during the season if we have injury problems.

[wolfkaosaun]

(06-08-2016, 04:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: He was damn sure better than Dre. matter of fact i think every CB in the NFL with a minimum of 500 snaps was better that Dre except 2.

Really? Huh.

Didn't know the Bengals were tied for 3rd in the NFL in passes per attempt with a mere 6.2 YPA.
Nor that they allowed only 18 passing TDs, 2nd in the NFL.
Or that they allowed a 78.9 QB rating this season, ranking them 5th in the NFL, only .1 behind the Broncos.
Or that Kirkpatrick had 16 pass break ups, which led the team. Also that ranked him tied for 11th in the NFL.

I get it, you're going by Profootball Focus rankings. But they literally have no stats or anything to help support that. Even with memberships.
They don't have completion percentages against defensive backs. They don't have contested catches percentages. They don't have touchdowns allowed. They have penalties though, so that's good.

Profootball Focus has gone downhill lately.

Also, if Kirkpatrick was really THAT bad, do you think any of those 4 stats would be the way they are?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(06-07-2016, 11:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Dre is not developing nicely; he was absolute garbage last year. He may be All-Pro this year but there is nothing to indicate he will be any good. My hope is that Radio or Dennard quickly become our #2

Pretty much. He's not very good and if the Bengals re-sign Hall to a low cost deal as their 3rd or 4th CB, I hope that means they cut Kirkpatrick and his $7.5m cap hit since they'd then have Jones/Dennard/Will Jack/Hall/Shaw as their CB depth, which is plenty good.

That $7.5m rolled over could get you someone seriously good in next year's FA class.  (Next year's WR FA class looks amazing right now. Fitzgerald, Jeffery, V Jackson, D Jackson, Garcon, Wright, Floyd, Sanders, Baldwin, K Allen.)

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(06-08-2016, 09:59 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: There would go are good passing defense right out the window.  Hall isn't a premier cb anymore.

And Kirkpatrick has never been a premier CB. Even Kirkpatrick's mother can't think he's a premier CB.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(06-09-2016, 01:46 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Really? Huh.

Didn't know the Bengals were tied for 3rd in the NFL in passes per attempt with a mere 6.2 YPA.
Nor that they allowed only 18 passing TDs, 2nd in the NFL.
Or that they allowed a 78.9 QB rating this season, ranking them 5th in the NFL, only .1 behind the Broncos.
Or that Kirkpatrick had 16 pass break ups, which led the team. Also that ranked him tied for 11th in the NFL.

I get it, you're going by Profootball Focus rankings. But they literally have no stats or anything to help support that. Even with memberships.
They don't have completion percentages against defensive backs. They don't have contested catches percentages. They don't have touchdowns allowed. They have penalties though, so that's good.

Profootball Focus has gone downhill lately.

Also, if Kirkpatrick was really THAT bad, do you think any of those 4 stats would be the way they are?

PFF isn't the end all be all, but..

-3rd in penalties in the entire NFL (all positions)
-2nd in missed tackles (among CBs)
-11th in YAC allowed (among CBs)
-2nd most targeted CB yet 0 INT
-0 INT!!!

So....
Can he play disciplined: Nope
Can he tackle: Nope
Can he catch: Nope
Can he keep players in front of him: Nope
Do other teams want to pick on him: Yep

There's no way you can honestly call Kirkpatrick a good CB. The dude has been having people make excuses for him for four years about how he's been a "rookie"... and yet he still stinks. Dude is going to retire at the age of 32 or something and people will be like "oh, well he's basically a rookie, so you need to take that into account and give him a break."

[Dmac18]

I think if he moved to Safety he'd do well.

[wolfkaosaun]

(06-09-2016, 02:10 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: PFF isn't the end all be all, but..

-3rd in penalties in the entire NFL (all positions)
-2nd in missed tackles (among CBs)
-11th in YAC allowed (among CBs)
-2nd most targeted CB yet 0 INT
-0 INT!!!

So....
Can he play disciplined: Nope
Can he tackle: Nope
Can he catch: Nope
Can he keep players in front of him: Nope
Do other teams want to pick on him: Yep

There's no way you can honestly call Kirkpatrick a good CB. The dude has been having people make excuses for him for four years about how he's been a "rookie"... and yet he still stinks. Dude is going to retire at the age of 32 or something and people will be like "oh, well he's basically a rookie, so you need to take that into account and give him a break."

Tied for 3rd in all positions. He also tied with Robinson and Suh. Also Jordan Reed had 1 less penalty.
Where is this missed tackle stat coming from? And the 11th YAC? I'm honestly curious because I can't find any of those besides PFF from forever ago.
2nd most targeted CB, and yet the pass defense still did that well? What? I mean, if PFF has him ranked as one of the worst of the worst, then why is the defense as a collective unit that good?

Can he tackle? He was 5th on the team in tackles. 2nd on the team in solo tackles, had only 1 less than Vinny Rey.
Can he catch? Since 2012, only Nelson and Adam Jones had more INTs than Kirkpatrick on this team. That includes Iloka and Hall.
Can he keep players in front of him? I mean, again, 6.2 YPA. Plus how many times did we see Kirkpatrick run down a player on the sideline because of other missed tackles?

There's no way you can say he's terrible. Because he's not. Is he the best? No, anyone who would believe that is asinine. I'm saying he's a solid player. Heck, he made some clutch plays for us as well. But guess we're gonna ignore those and only focus on the bad, huh?

He was a rookie. Cornerback is the hardest transition to the NFL. That's a fact. Every corner struggled early. You get better with more reps. Kirkpatrick finally became a starter. He's had some experience, he's done some good things, done some bad things. Players take time.

Who knows, Kirkaptrick could have an amazing year this year. It happens with cornerbacks. Just look at Josh Norman.

[grampahol]

He's one of the guys who you would like to see go out at the top of his game, but that horse left the barn awhile back. Without injuries to younger players I just don't see it happening, but you never know.