TJ Houshmandzadeh Thinks bengals Offense Is Better Than '05

[wolfkaosaun]

Full story with quotes here: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000498125/article/tj-houshmandzadeh-bengals-o-better-than-05-squad

[GodFather]

Then ended with the line, "With all that deep talent that in my honest opinion exceeds the '05 team, at the end of the day has the same head coach. And that's the tragedy we all have to incur in Cincinnati"

Chris Weaseling followed up with a final question, "Do you think the Bengals will get over the hump and win a playoff game this year?"

TJ's response? "They got a new head coach?"

[XenoMorph]

(06-22-2015, 05:10 PM)GodFather Wrote: Then ended with the line, "With all that deep talent that in my honest opinion exceeds the '05 team, at the end of the day has the same head coach. And that's the tragedy we all have to incur in Cincinnati"

Chris Weaseling followed up with a final question, "Do you think the Bengals will get over the hump and win a playoff game this year?"

TJ's response? "They got a new head coach?"

please provide that link it wasnt in the article he posted.

[Bilbo Saggins]

(06-22-2015, 06:12 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: please provide that link it wasnt in the article he posted.

[fredtoast]

(06-22-2015, 05:10 PM)GodFather Wrote: Then ended with the line, "With all that deep talent that in my honest opinion exceeds the '05 team, at the end of the day has the same head coach. And that's the tragedy we all have to incur in Cincinnati"

Chris Weaseling followed up with a final question, "Do you think the Bengals will get over the hump and win a playoff game this year?"

TJ's response? "They got a new head coach?"

Is this supposed to be clever?

because if he didn't really say this it makes you look kind of stupid.

[J24]

2005 Carson vs  Andy Dalton - I will go with 05 Carson here; In 2005 Carson had a higher completion %, higher QB rating, and less INTs. Really the only stats that Andy beats him in at his best season  is in TDs and Yards. Keep in mind that's with 80 more attempts as well. 

2005 Offensive line vs Current  line- 05 Line wins- both Tackle and Guard spots are similar but  the 05 team as the much better center in Barham.

2005 WR Core vs Current WR Core- 05 wins- AJ is the best WR out of both groups but the combination of TJ and Chad put the 05 group over the top. Also the fact that the 05 group had Chris Henry and Kevin Walter as third & 4th WRs  is very impressive. Jones is good but he is no TJ and Sanu is good but he is not Henry.   

2005 TEs vs current TES- Current wins- Kelly was a great blocker but  wasn't a factor as a receiver and Schobel wasn't that great of a receiver. Eifert has the potential to be a very good player for us and has already had more yards in an individual season then either of those two did in an individual season.

2005 RBs vs Current RBs- Current wins- Rudi Johnson is probably the most underrated RB we have ever had but he benefited from a great line and the pieces around him. Chris Perry was a solid 3rd down back but was not as good as Gio is now in that role. Jeremy is a special talent and when he gets full number 1 RB duties the guy will shine like he did at the end of last season.     

This upcoming unit might break single season team  records but I still would rather have 05s offense over the current one. Both are good units though and I think this upcoming season this current group will prove themselves as a good unit.

[wolfkaosaun]

(06-23-2015, 02:30 AM)J24 Wrote: 2005 Carson vs  Andy Dalton - I will go with 05 Carson here; In 2005 Carson had a higher completion %, higher QB rating, and less INTs. Really the only stats that Andy beats him in at his best season  is in TDs and Yards. Keep in mind that's with 80 more attempts as well. 

2005 Offensive line vs Current  line- 05 Line wins- both Tackle and Guard spots are similar but  the 05 team as the much better center in Barham.

2005 WR Core vs Current WR Core- 05 wins- AJ is the best WR out of both groups but the combination of TJ and Chad put the 05 group over the top. Also the fact that the 05 group had Chris Henry and Kevin Walter as third & 4th WRs  is very impressive. Jones is good but he is no TJ and Sanu is good but he is not Henry.   

2005 TEs vs current TES- Current wins- Kelly was a great blocker but  wasn't a factor as a receiver and Schobel wasn't that great of a receiver. Eifert has the potential to be a very good player for us and has already had more yards in an individual season then either of those two did in an individual season.

2005 RBs vs Current RBs- Current wins- Rudi Johnson is probably the most underrated RB we have ever had but he benefited from a great line and the pieces around him. Chris Perry was a solid 3rd down back but was not as good as Gio is now in that role. Jeremy is a special talent and when he gets full number 1 RB duties the guy will shine like he did at the end of last season.     

This upcoming unit might break single season team  records but I still would rather have 05s offense over the current one. Both are good units though and I think this upcoming season this current group will prove themselves as a good unit.

I think it's more so this offense is balanced. Hill and Gio > Rudi and Perry all the way. I am a huge fan of Rudi though. But there's a ton more weapons on offense than there was in '05. Green, Jones, and Sanu can do what Chad, TJ, and Henry did, and then some. No doubt with that.

I think it's mainly the fact that the '15 Bengals offense can hurt you in every aspect, where '05 had major strengths in certain aspects.

[fredtoast]

You guys know I don't hate Dalton, but Palmer was a better QB. The '05 team also had better WRs in Chad, TJ, and Henry.

However the current team gets a lot more production from the TEs than the '05 team. Also our current running game may be better than the '05 team, but not by much.

The current team may end up with a better offense if everyone stays healthy and Hill plays an entire season like he did the second half of '14. However, even though a lot of people will not want to hear this, I believe Bratkowski was a better OC than Jackson. People like to hate on Brat, but his track record as an OC is much better than Jackson's.

[Hoofhearted]

(06-23-2015, 09:58 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You guys know I don't hate Dalton, but Palmer was a better QB.  The '05 team also had better WRs in Chad, TJ, and Henry.  

However the current team gets a lot more production from the TEs than the '05 team.  Also our current running game may be better than the '05 team, but not by much.

The current team may end up with a better offense if everyone stays healthy and Hill plays an entire season like he did the second half of '14.  However, even though a lot of people will not want to hear this, I believe Bratkowski was a better OC than Jackson.  People like to hate on Brat, but his track record as an OC is much better than Jackson's.

I agree with most of this. I would argue is that we really don't know what we're going to get in terms of production from Eifert, Kroft and other TEs. I would say we certainly have more talent there, but its not proven. I think Rudy in 05 was a beast. He had 1400+ yards and 12 TDs. Chad also had 1400+ yards with 12 Tds. So that offense was pretty good.  I would also say that I think the 05 o-line is better than current. However, if Bodine can become an average Center and Andre play around 14 games or so, I think we will have a better line/running game. We're certainly a more balanced O than 05. 

 Lastly, did you know the first six starts of the season, combined with his last three starts of 2004, made Palmer him only the second passer in NFL history to post nine straight games with a passer rating of 100 or more?

[XenoMorph]

(06-23-2015, 04:38 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: I think it's more so this offense is balanced. Hill and Gio > Rudi and Perry all the way. I am a huge fan of Rudi though. But there's a ton more weapons on offense than there was in '05. Green, Jones, and Sanu can do what Chad, TJ, and Henry did, and then some. No doubt with that.

I think it's mainly the fact that the '15 Bengals offense can hurt you in every aspect, where '05 had major strengths in certain aspects.

I think this offense has the potential to be better....

But if it will or not is yet to be seen. One could argue the 2013 team was better as we broke some franchise records. so with that logic 2013 team + some additional experience this team should be better than what they did in 2013 hopefully on both sides of the ball.

[BFritz21]

I think this offense could be better just because of Hill.

Palmer '05 was a hell of a lot better than Dalton is, but they didn't have a Hill or an AJ, and, while I love Chad and think he was great, he was no AJ.

Hill being better and forcing defenses to choose whether to let Hill or AJ beat you makes this offense better, especially when you throw in that we'll have Eifert and Kroft/Uzomah, which destroys anything the '05 team had at TE (in terms of receiving).

The '05 team might have been better in the hurry-up/no-huddle/two-minute offense, but, in terms of a balanced offense that can do it all, give me this offense every day of the week.

[McC]

I love the fact that TJ talked about how many good players this year's team has.

[Bengal Dude]

(06-23-2015, 09:40 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I think this offense could be better just because of Hill.

Palmer '05 was a hell of a lot better than Dalton is, but they didn't have a Hill or an AJ, and, while I love Chad and think he was great, he was no AJ.

Hill being better and forcing defenses to choose whether to let Hill or AJ beat you makes this offense better, especially when you throw in that we'll have Eifert and Kroft/Uzomah, which destroys anything the '05 team had at TE (in terms of receiving).

The '05 team might have been better in the hurry-up/no-huddle/two-minute offense, but, in terms of a balanced offense that can do it all, give me this offense every day of the week.

Your love of Hill really frightens me.

[BFritz21]

(06-23-2015, 09:58 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You guys know I don't hate Dalton, but Palmer was a better QB.  The '05 team also had better WRs in Chad, TJ, and Henry.  

However the current team gets a lot more production from the TEs than the '05 team.  Also our current running game may be better than the '05 team, but not by much.

The current team may end up with a better offense if everyone stays healthy and Hill plays an entire season like he did the second half of '14.  However, even though a lot of people will not want to hear this, I believe Bratkowski was a better OC than Jackson.  People like to hate on Brat, but his track record as an OC is much better than Jackson's.

Disagree about Brat.

Palmer was calling most of those plays from the no-huddle.

Look at '09 and see that he didn't understand that establishing the run (or even being run-based) didn't mean that you have to call dive, dive, curl, punt every series.

The man lacked creativity and any real football ingenuity.

(06-24-2015, 04:36 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Your love of Hill really frightens me.

I read between the lines   

Yes, I'm very excited for him this year (and the team because of him) and I don't see how other people aren't, too!

[J24]

(06-23-2015, 04:38 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: I think it's more so this offense is balanced. Hill and Gio > Rudi and Perry all the way. I am a huge fan of Rudi though. But there's a ton more weapons on offense than there was in '05. Green, Jones, and Sanu can do what Chad, TJ, and Henry did, and then some. No doubt with that.

I think it's mainly the fact that the '15 Bengals offense can hurt you in every aspect, where '05 had major strengths in certain aspects.

I disagree with you on the receivers;TJ was a much better #2 than either Jones or Sanu are now. 
With that being said I agree with you about the more weapons parts. I think the advantage that this unit has is with Gio, Hill, and Eifert. Gio is so dynamic in space , Hill is big bruiser with break away speed, and Eifert is an legit TE. The 2005 unit really can't match up with that.
I would still give a slight edge to the 05 offense Because of the Line and Carson.

[wolfkaosaun]

(06-25-2015, 01:39 AM)J24 Wrote: I disagree with you on the receivers;TJ was a much better #2 than either Jones or Sanu are now. 
With that being said I agree with you about the more weapons parts. I think the advantage that this unit has is with Gio, Hill, and Eifert. Gio is so dynamic in space , Hill is big bruiser with break away speed, and Eifert is an legit TE. The 2005 unit really can't match up with that.
I would still give a slight edge to the 05 offense Because of the Line and Carson.

I believe that Jones could match TJ, but he has yet to really prove that besides a breakout year in '13. Sanu is a viable option and does extremely well in the slot position, he even stepped up when he was the only receiver as well.

I agree, certainly more weapons. I also think Alford and Moore are going to be huge deep threats that could offer some more to this offense. It appears that Dalton and Alford have been connecting quite a bit in training camp.

[wolfkaosaun]

I really wanted to look into the '05 line vs. the '14 line.

Whit vs. Levi: Whit is still playing at a very high level. Even late in his career he has made it to the Second Team All-Pro. He also gives up very few sacks in a tough defensive division. I really like what Levi did, but Whitworth out performs him even as he has gotten older.

Boling vs. Steinbach: Boling has shown some really good games, but also has shown to struggle. '14 was one of his most consistent years, but Steinbach was a player you could move around on the offensive line and had a great work ethic. Both have played about the same amount, but I have to give the nod to Steinbach.

Bodine vs. Braham: Bodine struggled a lot his rookie season. Braham had a long career with the Bengals and did very well. This is pretty much unfair, but Braham all the way.

Zeitler vs. Williams: Zeitler is a Pro Bowl talent, easily. Although he had some injuries which derailed him in some games, '14 was a great year for him and it's surprising he didn't get as much recognition as he deserved. Williams came into the Bengals organization and helped lead a tremendous offensive line and continued to play at a high level for the Bengals. This one, in my opinion, is a toss up. I'd take either and be happy.

Smith vs. Anderson: Smith has had some really good seasons, no doubt about it. He has also dealt with injuries and inconsistencies due to injuries. But Willie Anderson is one of the best Bengals players of all time. He's a 3 time All-Pro player (2nd most for Bengals history). Anderson gets the nod and deserves it.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(06-25-2015, 02:14 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: I really wanted to look into the '05 line vs. the '14 line.

Whit vs. Levi: Whit is still playing at a very high level. Even late in his career he has made it to the Second Team All-Pro. He also gives up very few sacks in a tough defensive division. I really like what Levi did, but Whitworth out performs him even as he has gotten older.

Boling vs. Steinbach: Boling has shown some really good games, but also has shown to struggle. '14 was one of his most consistent years, but Steinbach was a player you could move around on the offensive line and had a great work ethic. Both have played about the same amount, but I have to give the nod to Steinbach.

Bodine vs. Braham: Bodine struggled a lot his rookie season. Braham had a long career with the Bengals and did very well. This is pretty much unfair, but Braham all the way.

Zeitler vs. Williams: Zeitler is a Pro Bowl talent, easily. Although he had some injuries which derailed him in some games, '14 was a great year for him and it's surprising he didn't get as much recognition as he deserved. Williams came into the Bengals organization and helped lead a tremendous offensive line and continued to play at a high level for the Bengals. This one, in my opinion, is a toss up. I'd take either and be happy.

Smith vs. Anderson: Smith has had some really good seasons, no doubt about it. He has also dealt with injuries and inconsistencies due to injuries. But Willie Anderson is one of the best Bengals players of all time. He's a 3 time All-Pro player (2nd most for Bengals history). Anderson gets the nod and deserves it.

The only position we are decidedly better at is LT.
Zeitler I would give a slight nod over Bobbie simply because he's better in the second level than Bobbie was here. But, it could easily be a wash as you said. 

If Anderson would have won in the postseason, he'd be as highly regarded as others from his era...

[*Nately120*]

This may be the first actual debate we've had on here where we can actually have a semi-solid conclusion in due time. In 2005 we had the 4th ranked offense...your move, 2015 squad!

[wolfkaosaun]

(06-25-2015, 02:18 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: The only position we are decidedly better at is LT.
Zeitler I would give a slight nod over Bobbie simply because he's better in the second level than Bobbie was here. But, it could easily be a wash as you said. 

If Anderson would have won in the postseason, he'd be as highly regarded as others from his era...

It's sad Anderson doesn't receive much recognition as he deserves. He's arguably the best RT from the early 2000's. Although RT have very rarely received much praise.