With Bridgewater seriously injured, could there be a Mccarron trade?

[Froob]

(09-02-2016, 04:50 PM)Stormborn Wrote: He has a lot of good qualities. 

He's one of the most pure accurate throwers in the game. His placement and touch is upper tier specifically on shallow crosses and intermediate downfield strikes.

Seriously, he's probably the most under appreciated thrower in the game because he can't seamlessly throw it 60 yards on demand. He's very accurate when he has time. And a good decision maker, very little errand throws.

Not only does his Oline stick to high heaven, the system Turner employs is predicated on 5-7 step drops, causing pressure to come quicker against a terribad oline. The system requires multiple reads to go through, much more complicated stuff than what we're running down here. And yes, he makes the presnap adjustments too. 

AP's strengths don't even shine in this system. 

This doesn't even account for the fact that his most consistent receiver he's had in two years fell off the edge late last year. He's had bad weapons overall with that Oline that accouts for his lack of production. It's way more on them than it is on him as a Quarterback.

He's very efficient on the move, able to make throws on the run and use his legs to evade tacklers.

This is what is called context. Stats don't mean everything.

Re-watch some of his games with the all-22 and a fresh head, see what everyone else sees.

I hate to be direct, but all this doesn't matter any more now. He will  never be the same. He was a mediocre QB for a couple years, but now his career is likely over. Minnesota will need to save their 1st round pick for 2017 possible franchise QB and chalk up this season as a L.

[jfkbengals]

They traded for Sam Bradford, so this idea can be put to bed...

[Bengalbug]

(09-03-2016, 11:44 AM)jfkbengals Wrote: They traded for Sam Bradford, so this idea can be put to bed...

A 1st and a 4th... Feel like the bengals could have got a 1 for mccarron 

[BonnieBengal]

(09-03-2016, 11:47 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: A 1st and a 4th... Feel like the bengals could have got a 1 for mccarron 

That is too much for Bradford.

[*Nately120*]

(09-03-2016, 11:47 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: A 1st and a 4th... Feel like the bengals could have got a 1 for mccarron 

Trading a 1st for a QB makes me wonder just how optimistic they are that Teddy will even play in 2017.  But yea, I'm pretty curious if they called Mike and what the offer may have been. Then again, does Mike Brown really do the trade thing? We can always hold the Palmer trade out there as a shining moment but that's a pretty big outlier. It's like calling a guy a financial whiz because he managed to hit the lottery.

Anyways, a 1st rounder and a 4th rounder doesn't exactly seem like a one-year rental to me. That's just a few shades removed from Hue's Palmer deal, and I can only assume Hue was expecting Palmer to be in Oakland for more than a year or so...ergo, I wonder if they are keeping an option to move on from, or slowly bring Teddy back open.

[jfkbengals]

(09-03-2016, 12:08 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Trading a 1st for a QB makes me wonder just how optimistic they are that Teddy will even play in 2017.  But yea, I'm pretty curious if they called Mike and what the offer may have been.  Then again, does Mike Brown really do the trade thing?  We can always hold the Palmer trade out there as a shining moment but that's a pretty big outlier.  It's like calling a guy a financial whiz because he managed to hit the lottery.

Anyways, a 1st rounder and a 4th rounder doesn't exactly seem like a one-year rental to me.  That's just a few shades removed from Hue's Palmer deal, and I can only assume Hue was expecting Palmer to be in Oakland for more than a year or so...ergo, I wonder if they are keeping an option to move on from, or slowly bring Teddy back open.

PFT feels the same way:

The move gives Minnesota not only a quarterback for 2017, but insurance against the possibility that Bridgewater won’t be fully recovered by next year at this time. The team’s decision to give up so much to get Bradford possibly is a hint that, given the knee dislocation and other damage done after the ACL tore, maybe there’s reason to be concerned.

http://http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/09/03/vikings-give-up-a-first-rounder-and-more-for-sam-bradford/

[*Nately120*]

Interesting that some Vikings fans on their message board are saying this move puts them back into SB contention. Bradford must have some untapped potential, but the guy has never even lucked into a winning season.

[jfkbengals]

(09-03-2016, 12:24 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Interesting that some Vikings fans on their message board are saying this move puts them back into SB contention.  Bradford must have some untapped potential, but the guy has never even lucked into a winning season.

Not to mention he his first exposure to their playbook is 8 days from the first game of the season...

[fredtoast]

(09-03-2016, 12:08 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Trading a 1st for a QB makes me wonder just how optimistic they are that Teddy will even play in 2017.  But yea, I'm pretty curious if they called Mike and what the offer may have been.  Then again, does Mike Brown really do the trade thing?  We can always hold the Palmer trade out there as a shining moment but that's a pretty big outlier.  It's like calling a guy a financial whiz because he managed to hit the lottery.

Anyways, a 1st rounder and a 4th rounder doesn't exactly seem like a one-year rental to me.  That's just a few shades removed from Hue's Palmer deal, and I can only assume Hue was expecting Palmer to be in Oakland for more than a year or so...ergo, I wonder if they are keeping an option to move on from, or slowly bring Teddy back open.

Bridgewater is making peanuts both this season and next year (about $2 million a year).  The Vikings only have to pay Bradford $7 million this year (Eagles already paid his $11 million signing bonus), and though he is due $18 million next year none of it is guaranteed.

This is actually a very good deal for the Vikings.  They gave up a first round pick, but if Bridgewater returns next year they save enough in cap space to sign a top free agent.  They also get ayear to see how well Bradford plays this year.  If he stinks it up they can cut him without any additional cost.

[Shake n Blake]

(09-03-2016, 12:08 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Trading a 1st for a QB makes me wonder just how optimistic they are that Teddy will even play in 2017.  But yea, I'm pretty curious if they called Mike and what the offer may have been.  Then again, does Mike Brown really do the trade thing?  We can always hold the Palmer trade out there as a shining moment but that's a pretty big outlier.  It's like calling a guy a financial whiz because he managed to hit the lottery.

Anyways, a 1st rounder and a 4th rounder doesn't exactly seem like a one-year rental to me.  That's just a few shades removed from Hue's Palmer deal, and I can only assume Hue was expecting Palmer to be in Oakland for more than a year or so...ergo, I wonder if they are keeping an option to move on from, or slowly bring Teddy back open.

Honestly, I didn't think Minny would even consider throwing a 2nd (or more) at McCarron because I didn't think they'd sell their future for what amounted to a 1 year rental. Either they're desperate to save this season or TB's injury is worse than thought. Possibly both.

(09-03-2016, 12:24 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Interesting that some Vikings fans on their message board are saying this move puts them back into SB contention.  Bradford must have some untapped potential, but the guy has never even lucked into a winning season.

Well in fairness, Bradford has never had a team this good. This is automatically the best defense, RB and maybe even receivers he's ever had.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-03-2016, 01:43 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Honestly, I didn't think Minny would even consider throwing a 2nd (or more) at McCarron because I didn't think they'd sell their future for what amounted to a 1 year rental. Either they're desperate to save this season or TB's injury is worse than thought. Possibly both.


Well in fairness, Bradford has never had a team this good. This is automatically the best defense, RB and even receivers he's ever had.

Definitely both. I knew as soon as I saw "fully torn ACL, dislocated knee, and other structural damage" that 2017 would be in doubt. You could theoretically come back in a year from the dislocation and fully torn ACL... but that other structural damage is what makes me wonder/worry about his future.

Plus maybe they realize if Bradford does well for them in 2016, and Bridgewater IS ready for the start of 2017, then they can probably turn Bradford into a 2nd round pick or something.

[Atomic Orange]

Well, that's an offer you certainly strongly consider! I wonder if we were offered anything close to that for AJM?


I suppose we'll never know.


If we were and Mike rejected it though..

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-03-2016, 02:17 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: Well, that's an offer you certainly strongly consider! I wonder if we were offered anything close to that for AJM?


I suppose we'll never know.


If we were and Mike rejected it though..

Mike would never reject getting ridiculously overpaid in a trade, right?...... right?

http://bengals.enquirer.com/1999/04/18/ben_bengals_turn_down.html
(An entire draft, plus the next two year's 1st rounders and a future 2nd rounder.)

[kevin]

(09-03-2016, 11:47 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: A 1st and a 4th... Feel like the bengals could have got a 1 for mccarron 

Zim didn't want to call it a season before the season.....Bradford does bring more starting experience than McCarron would.....as for giving up a number 1 pick, we in Cincinnati got so much into the draft back in the 1990's......That coach for the Rams and Redskins would have loved this move. George Allen.  He would trade draft picks for veterans as often as he could....Zim didn't have much choice here with 16 games still to play and him hoping play-offs.....As for the Vikings 2017 draft, they can always trade up, move up. They have many months to do that.  .....Zim still plans on winning the NFC North without his injured QB.....Bradford brings them more game experience, and I'm glad Bengals still have McCarron. .......First Round draft picks don't always make it in the NFL, so trying to win some games for the season ticket holders this year is a good move by Vikings. ....People laughed when the Raiders got Jim Plunkett....It could be Bradford was just on a very lousy team when he started......I mention Plunkett and Bradford because everybody wanted them out of college, and soon nobody wanted them. You get on the right team, the right coach, things can change.

[Shake n Blake]

(09-03-2016, 01:46 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Plus maybe they realize if Bradford does well for them in 2016, and Bridgewater IS ready for the start of 2017, then they can probably turn Bradford into a 2nd round pick or something.

This is why I think it was a great move. It's not like they're stuck with Bradford. They get to rent him for at least a year and possibly recoup some of what they lost in the draft later on. If I were a Vikes fan, I'd be thrilled with this trade. Plus they were already in good shape for next year's draft. I believe they have an extra 2nd and 4th.

[kevin]

(09-03-2016, 02:34 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This is why I think it was a great move. It's not like they're stuck with Bradford. They get to rent him for at least a year and possibly recoup some of what they lost in the draft later on. If I were a Vikes fan, I'd be thrilled with this trade. Plus they were already in good shape for next year's draft. I believe they have an extra 2nd and 4th.

Right, and people forget this isn't high school ball.....The Pros.....Fans pay big money for these seats.....TV pays big money for the games....You do not call it a season before the season....You can't do that to the paying fans or the paying TV......Way too much money involved to call it a season before the season and start planning on next year. ....So this was a needed move by The Vikings. .....Not that they call it a season before the season in high school, but just more MONEY involved in the NFL......My word, you have 200 dollar seats and there really are no cheap seats. The luxury boxes are very expensive. You better go out and get a quarterback, and they did.

[Atomic Orange]

(09-03-2016, 02:23 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Mike would never reject getting ridiculously overpaid in a trade, right?...... right?

http://bengals.enquirer.com/1999/04/18/ben_bengals_turn_down.html
(An entire draft, plus the next two year's 1st rounders and a future 2nd rounder.)

Mike was probably the reason for the crazy deal for Bradford
Vikes "Hey Mike hows it goin!"
Mike "I'll take a 2 and a 3 and a 6"
Vikes  "That seems rather crazy Mike"
Mike  "2,3,6 nothing less"
Vikes "You are out of your freaking mind Mike"
Mike  "You have no idea, remember Akili Smith? 236!"
Hour passes :
Vikes "Alright alright! We will offer a 1 and a 4! Take it or leave it"
Mike " I said 2,3,6, damn it. What do you take me for a fool!?" *click*
5 Minutes later:
*Ring Ring*
"Eagles HQ here how may we help you?"
*Huffing and Puffing*
"HI, THIS IS THE VIKES WE WILL OFFER YOU A 1 AND A 4 FOR SAM BRADFORD!"
*Fainting*
*5 min. later*
"Sorry about that, come again and slower this time"
"WE..WILL..OFFER..YOU..A..ONE..AND..A..FOUR..FOR..SAM..BRADFORD."
"He's on the plane!"

[*Go Cards*]

Guess Zimmer did not realize how great Hill is.

But they have extra picks next year but still paid dearly.

A 1st and a 4th which the 4th becomes a 2nd if Vikings win SB in next two years with Bradford.

Believe Bradford was not worth that. So good move by Eagles trading back up for great return.

But Vilings were over a barrel and had to pay steep price if wanting somebody this year.

[*Nately120*]

I'm just not sure a 1st and 4th are worth the upgrade Bradford even brings over Mark Sanchez, who looked pretty similar TO Bradford in the past 2 years. Someone on the Vikings board posted this...





Anyways, I can see where they are going with it and it makes more sense than opening a new stadium with Hill under center, though. Again, this reminds me of the Raiders in 2011 who had a backup QB that was such a waste of space that they made some absurd trade to keep him off the field, and thankfully we don't have that going on here. Hill and Boller were such crap backups that their teams sent a king's ransom for an "available" vet who had 0 time to actually learn the playbook. Honestly, is Bradford going to start the opener? He has no experience with Norv's system, so I'm wondering if it will be like the Palmer thing where Hill will be so terrible fans demand the vet who has absolutely no clue what is going on and disaster strikes.

Well, should be interesting.

[Shake n Blake]

I thought the same thing yesterday, Nately. While I do think Bradford is better, is he really THAT much better?

I know one thing. I can say without looking up the stats that Bradford has protected the football a lot better than Sanchize. With the Vikings looking for someone to manage games and protect the football, I'd say Bradford is clearly the better choice. Sanchez for free sure sounds enticing though after they gave up so much for Bradford.

Man, I bet the Vikings boards are blowing up on that subject right now.

EDIT: INT percentages over last 2 years (with career % in parenthesis)

Bradford- 2.27 (2.27)
Sanchez- 3.75

For anyone who doesn't know, anything under 2.5 means you don't throw many picks. Anything over 3 or 3.5 means you chuck them on a regular. Sanchez probably would've held down the starting gig in Philly if not for turnovers. He was certainly efficient enough running the offense.