Marvin Often Deserves ....

[bengalguy71]

(09-30-2016, 03:03 PM)Older Than You Wrote: ... Marvin consistently gets out coached in games.

Zimmer should have been made head coach and Marvin GM.

That's exactly what I hoped for, and when that didn't happen, I hoped Lewis would retire after 2015 and let Hue have it, although I pretty much neither would happen.

[JumboTron]

(09-30-2016, 11:35 AM)bengalguy71 Wrote: some of the criticism here, and this isn't in his defense, but the other side of that coin was pointed out in the game last night,

Since Marvin has been HC, 2003, the Dolphins have had 9 different HCs and where has it gotten them?  

Spot on!!!

Anytime some no-nothing Bengals "fan" tries to argue that Marvin should be fired for going 13 seasons with ZERO playoff wins including 0 for the last 5 trips I always use the fail-safe counter point of:

"Yeah, well...like...how many head coaches have the Dolphins had in that time?  Yeah, so there.  Marvin is good at being a head football coach."

After which they just walk away looking dumbfounded and disgusted which probably means I just totally won the argument.

Totally on your side there bengalguy71.

[JumboTron]

(09-30-2016, 02:59 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: The Panthers are a bad example.  It took awhile for them to get much better, something that people around here would not be satisfied with.

As for the Broncos, I don't see how they got any better with Kubiak.  Yes, they won the Super Bowl, but they actually had better teams with Fox as their coach.  

I'll do some research, but I can't seem to remember a winning team having much luck the following season after a coaching change.

I remember Tony Dungy going 9-7 in 2001 with the Bucs.  Was fired after losing the Wildcard game vs Philly for the second year in a row (hmmm, losing in the wildcard round.  Sound familiar?)  Bucs made the decision to fire him and brought in Gruden, granted it was more of a trade, but they were proactive in getting a talented coach who could take them to the next level even though they made the playoffs in each of the previous three seasons.  INCLUDING making it to the NFC Championship game in 1999.

Not sure, but I think the next year, in 2002, the Bucs had a decent season.  Don't quote me on that though.

[Bengalholic]

(09-30-2016, 02:59 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: The Panthers are a bad example.  It took awhile for them to get much better, something that people around here would not be satisfied with.

As for the Broncos, I don't see how they got any better with Kubiak.  Yes, they won the Super Bowl, but they actually had better teams with Fox as their coach.  

I'll do some research, but I can't seem to remember a winning team having much luck the following season after a coaching change.

Here are a few examples (from just the Super Bowl era) of winning teams firing/parting with their HC, and what happened after. I'm sure I left a couple out, so if anyone has others, they can post them. 


Marty Schottenheimer was either fired or resigned from the Browns - depending on who tells the story, which was later deemed a 'mutual parting of the ways' because of control issues - after posting 3 10+ win seasons and winning 2 playoff games. The Browns made the playoffs the following season with Bud Carson, but then went 9-23 over the next two years.

Schottenheimer had another 'mutual parting' in SD after a 14-2 season. The Chargers made the playoffs the next 3 seasons with Norv Turner and then hovered around the .500 mark for the his last 3 years.

John Fox was fired after having 3 straight 12+ win seasons in Denver. The Broncos won the Super Bowl the following season with Kubiak and are looking very solid again this season.

Jimmy Johnson was basically forced out by Jerry Jones' ego in 1993 despite having just won back-to-back Super Bowls. They won 12 games in each of the next 2 seasons, and won another SB.

Bum Phillips was fired in Houston after 3 straight 10+ win seasons and 3 straight PO appearances. The Oilers struggled big time over the next 6 years.

George Allen was fired by the Rams after 5 straight winning seasons and 2 PO appearances. The Rams were mediocre for a couple of years before landing Chuck Knox.

Knox himself would be fired 5 years later after 5 straight 10+ win seasons and 5 straight PO appearances. The Rams played in the CCG the next year and the SB the year after.

Tony Dungy was fired in TB after 3 straight playoff appearances and 4 overall in 6 seasons. The Bucs traded for Gruden and won the SB the following season. However, they did have a losing record in 3 of the next 4 seasons. 

Lovie Smith was fired by the Bears after a 10-6 season. He had spent 9 years in Chicago and had 3 playoff appearances. The Bears are 19-32 since his firing.

Buddy Ryan was fired in Philly after 3 straight seasons of 10+ wins and playoff appearances. The Eagles went 11-5 and 10-6 the next 2 years, before being around .500 the next two years.

Steve Mariucci was fired in SF after 2 straight PO appearance and 4 10+win seasons in 6 years. The 49ers had 7 losing seasons over the next 8 years.

[bengalguy71]

(09-30-2016, 04:23 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Here are a few examples (from just the Super Bowl era) of winning teams firing/parting with their HC, and what happened after. I'm sure I left a couple out, so if anyone has others, they can post them. 


Marty Schottenheimer was either fired or resigned from the Browns - depending on who tells the story, which was later deemed a 'mutual parting of the ways' because of control issues - after posting 3 10+ win seasons and winning 2 playoff games. The Browns made the playoffs the following season with Bud Carson, but then went 9-23 over the next two years.

Schottenheimer had another 'mutual parting' in SD after a 14-2 season. The Chargers made the playoffs the next 3 seasons with Norv Turner and then hovered around the .500 mark for the his last 3 years.

John Fox was fired after having 3 straight 12+ win seasons in Denver. The Broncos won the Super Bowl the following season with Kubiak and are looking very solid again this season.

Jimmy Johnson was basically forced out by Jerry Jones' ego in 1993 despite having just won back-to-back Super Bowls. They won 12 games in each of the next 2 seasons, and won another SB.

Bum Phillips was fired in Houston after 3 straight 10+ win seasons and 3 straight PO appearances. The Oilers struggled big time over the next 6 years.

George Allen was fired by the Rams after 5 straight winning seasons and 2 PO appearances. The Rams were mediocre for a couple of years before landing Chuck Knox. Knox himself would be fired 5 years later after 5 straight 10+ win seasons and 5 straight PO appearances.

Tony Dungy was fired in TB after 3 straight playoff appearances and 4 overall in 6 seasons. The Bucs traded for Gruden and won the SB the following season. However, they did have a losing record in 3 of the next 4 seasons. 

Lovie Smith was fired by the Bears after a 10-6 season. He had spent 9 years in Chicago and had 3 playoff appearances. The Bears are 19-32 since his firing.

Buddy Ryan was fired in Philly after 3 straight seasons of 10+ wins and playoff appearances. The Eagles went 11-5 and 10-6 the next 2 years, before being around .500 before being .500 the next two years.

Steve Mariucci was fired in SF after 2 straight PO appearance and 4 10+win seasons in 6 years. The 49ers had 7 losing seasons over the next 8 years.

I said I wouldn't do this, and I should stay out, but here's what also comes into play. Many coaches inherit talent and tweak it into a championship and never have much success AFTERWARD, which is what many said about Jon Gruden AFTER Tony Dingy won a ring. That Gruden was in the right place at right time and just inherited the team Dingy built.

[PDub80]

(09-30-2016, 04:50 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: I said I wouldn't do this, and I should stay out, but here's what also comes into play. Many coaches inherit talent and tweak it into a championship and never have much success AFTERWARD, which is what many said about Jon Gruden AFTER Tony Dingy won a ring. That Gruden was in the right place at right time and just inherited the team Dingy built.

Ummmmm, I would 100℅ take that.

[JumboTron]

(09-30-2016, 04:50 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: I said I wouldn't do this, and I should stay out, but here's what also comes into play. Many coaches inherit talent and tweak it into a championship and never have much success AFTERWARD, which is what many said about Jon Gruden AFTER Tony Dingy won a ring. That Gruden was in the right place at right time and just inherited the team Dingy built.

Fact remains that Dungy never won a championship with the team he "built" while Gruden did it in his first season.

[bengalguy71]

(09-30-2016, 07:17 PM)JumboTron Wrote: Fact remains that Dungy never won a championship with the team he "built" while Gruden did it in his first season.

Let me take this opportunity to amend this statement.

Dungy coached the Tampa and built them for 6 years, got fired after his sixth year.

Gruden came to Tampa the year after Dungy was fired and won the SB with Tampa Bay.

Dungy got picked up by the Colts the year after he got fired by Tampa.

Built the Colts built the Colts for 4 years and won the SB with the Colts in his 5th year.

[JumboTron]

...And it took Gruden one season to do what Dungy couldn't in six, or even his final two with pretty much the same exact roster.

[bengalguy71]

(09-30-2016, 07:56 PM)JumboTron Wrote: ...And it took Gruden one season to do what Dungy couldn't in six, or even his final two with pretty much the same exact roster.

Who's to say Dungy wouldn't have done it in 2002 as well.

After that season, Gruden stayed with Tampa Bay for 6 more years, made the playoffs twice and lost both games each year.

[JumboTron]

And still, he won a SB with the same team Dungy had.

[HarleyDog]

Ok. I read the title thread and here's my answer: "A punch in the face!"

[cincyfan429]

Just name any head coach in any sport that has 13 yrs and not a single playoff win. Marvin should have gotten fired 3 years ago, and they should have made Zimmer head coach this team would be better right now. He has too much talent on this team too keep loosing in the first round. Look up all the stats from the playoff losses. I guarantee you will see the Bengals were out played and heavily out scored in the second half of all those playoff losses. That's because of bad coaching.

[HarleyDog]

Had Zimmer been our HC? We would have a Lombardi!

[bengalguy71]

(09-30-2016, 11:22 PM)JumboTron Wrote: And still, he won a SB with the same team Dungy had.

If it was Gruden that made the difference, then he should have had success AFTER that.  He only made the playoffs one time in the six years he was there after the SB win.

[JumboTron]

What part of winning a SB with the same team Dungy had do you not comprehend?

[tigerseye]

Big ML fan.

He has gotten us this far which is a long way from where we were.

The record has greatly improved, the professionalism of the players and organization has greatly improved (leading to more consistancy), the drafting has improved, and the transitioning/development of players have improved and we now are making the playoffs more consistently.

ML has done a great job. We just have to take that next step and win a SB.

It's all here. All the ingredients are here. We just have to put it all together.

If they grind and build to be at their best at the end of the year they can win it all.

Teams that win championships don't make excuses. If something gets in its way, championship teams run over it.(like road kill)

On offense get better at identifying the other teams weaknesses and exploiting the s!@# out of it ,until they stop it.(Belicheck is the king at this)

We are so close to winning a SB, I can smell it. Keep moving forward ,we're close.

Favorite Bengals coaches- Sam Wyche (very innovative and doesn't get the credit) and Marvin Lewis (Building a winning franchise/SB Champion? with integrity/He's a grinder).

ML for President.  WHO DEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TKUHL]

Sorry i have to jump in here a sec. Marvin has had countless pro bowl players, rebuilt this team several times, lost playoff games with tons of talent, different OC's DC's top five offense, top 5 defense, the only consistent is Marvin. He may be able to build a team which is why i would like to keep him as a GM, but im afraid Marvin has peaked. 13 years not with one but basically 3 different teams and no playoff win is just insane. This team and some fans need not be afraid of change. I think Zimmer was the guy to push these players to their limits but that ship has sailed. We need to find the next Zimmer cause all we are doing now is wasting our chances watching our window open and close over and over again and again. I would trade every Marvin Lewis playoff birth for 1 SB win in 13 years anytime. With the talent this team has had the past 13 years we could have had a dynasty instead of mediocrity.

[JumboTron]

(10-01-2016, 12:03 AM)tigerseye Wrote: Big ML fan.

He has gotten us this far which is a long way from where we were.

The record has greatly improved, the professionalism of the players and organization has greatly improved (leading to more consistancy), the drafting has improved, and the transitioning/development of players have improved and we now are making the playoffs more consistently.

ML has done a great job. We just have to take that next step and win a SB.

It's all here. All the ingredients are here. We just have to put it all together.

If they grind and build to be at their best at the end of the year they can win it all.

Teams that win championships don't make excuses. If something gets in its way, championship teams run over it.(like road kill)

On offense get better at identifying the other teams weaknesses and exploiting the s!@# out of it ,until they stop it.(Belicheck is the king at this)

We are so close to winning a SB, I can smell it. Keep moving forward ,we're close.

Favorite Bengals coaches- Sam Wyche (very innovative and doesn't get the credit) and Marvin Lewis (Building a winning franchise/SB Champion? with integrity/He's a grinder).

ML for President.  WHO DEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The next step would to win one single playoff game.  Hey then maybe 13 years after that he will figure out how to win a Div playoff game.  Then another 13 years for an AFC Championship.

Only about, oh 39 years or so left until Marv takes us to the promised land!  

[Clappington]

People here are so scared of going back to being a laughing stock of the league that they are ok with being mediocre. Who is ok with being basic? He's shoulda been fired or something so many years ago.


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