Red Zone Woes

[wolfkaosaun]

Inside the red zone, it's no surprise that the Bengals have struggled inside the red zone. You watch the games, you can tell. But just how bad are they?

Well, currently they rank 29th in the league with scoring a TD in the red zone with a percentage of 30.77%. To make it worse, on the road they have a percentage of 16.67%. Home isn't much better with a ranking of 42.86%. Which would rank them 21st in the NFL.

In comparison, the Bengals were tied for 5th in the league with 65%.

So let's take a deeper look at the team.

Inside the 10 yard line, the Bengals have only run with Hill. They've ran 5 times with him for a total of 3 yards inside the 10.

Inside the 10 yard line, the Bengals have passed the ball 6 times for one completion. Uzomah has been targeted twice. Boyd targeted once. LaFell targeted once. And Green targeted once. Along with one throw away. Green is the only one to catch a pass inside the 10, and he did that last night.

But let's look at the packages that the Bengals have done with running situations. On EVERY single run inside the 10 yard line, they've used multiple offensive lineman. And on 2 of Dalton's 6 throws have come out of the same formation.

So what does this mean? It's predictable. Multiple offensive lineman? Stack the box and have someone on Uzomah. Because that's the first read and a lot of Zampese's passing offense is first read.

The other 4 throws? One was a TD to Green in a normal formation. LaFell was barely out of bounds on one throw. One was a throw away. And the other was that drop/deflection to Boyd last night.

Zampese's red zone offense is one of the worst in the league. And it has no reason to be. You have some very good players, but inside the red zone gets very predictable. They've had 6 or more offensive lineman on 7 of their 11 tries inside the 10 yard line. Sure, they've scored 3 total TDs inside the 10 (2 for Hill, 1 for Green). But that's it. This team has too much talent to be that predictable inside the red zone.

[Aquapod770]

I don't think we've attempted one fade to Green inside the 10 so far at all this year. It may be a low percentage throw, but it's one of Green specialties and doesn't require the OL to hold their blocks for long periods of time. Call plays to your offensive strengths.

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-30-2016, 04:36 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Inside the red zone, it's no surprise that the Bengals have struggled inside the red zone. You watch the games, you can tell. But just how bad are they?

Well, currently they rank 29th in the league with scoring a TD in the red zone with a percentage of 30.77%. To make it worse, on the road they have a percentage of 16.67%. Home isn't much better with a ranking of 42.86%. Which would rank them 21st in the NFL.

In comparison, the Bengals were tied for 5th in the league with 65%.

So let's take a deeper look at the team.

Inside the 10 yard line, the Bengals have only run with Hill. They've ran 5 times with him for a total of 3 yards inside the 10.

Inside the 10 yard line, the Bengals have passed the ball 6 times for one completion. Uzomah has been targeted twice. Boyd targeted once. LaFell targeted once. And Green targeted once. Along with one throw away. Green is the only one to catch a pass inside the 10, and he did that last night.

But let's look at the packages that the Bengals have done with running situations. On EVERY single run inside the 10 yard line, they've used multiple offensive lineman. And on 2 of Dalton's 6 throws have come out of the same formation.

So what does this mean? It's predictable.  Multiple offensive lineman?  Stack the box and have someone on Uzomah. Because that's the first read and a lot of Zampese's passing offense is first read.

The other 4 throws? One was a TD to Green in a normal formation. LaFell was barely out of bounds on one throw. One was a throw away. And the other was that drop/deflection to Boyd last night.

Zampese's red zone offense is one of the worst in the league. And it has no reason to be. You have some very good players, but inside the red zone gets very predictable. They've had 6 or more offensive lineman on 7 of their 11 tries inside the 10 yard line. Sure, they've scored 3 total TDs inside the 10 (2 for Hill, 1 for Green). But that's it. This team has too much talent to be that predictable inside the red zone.

In short Zampese sucks ! He has a corvette and he's driving it like it's a 1930's solid wheel tractor. 

And I don't think our predictability is limited to just the red zone.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Not good, this has to improve. This is definately a big problem. I agree with Aquapod about the fades to Green too.

Have to go to your greatest strength and AJ does that better than anybody, it is nearly unstoppable.

[BFritz21]

I think we need to line-up in two-tight end sets with Hill as a lone setback or a normal formation with two wide, a tight end, Hill, and a fullback because it spreads the defense out and opens running lanes a bit, as well as at least making them respect the option of throwing it and not being able to stack the line and send everyone.

On Hill's runs inside the 10 and 5, they were hitting him and tripping him up a step after he got the ball.

And what does that extra lineman do? We're not running the ball outside over him so he normally just needs to not get blown up or let the defender run past him.

Zampese can't be this predictable, not with this much talent on offense.

[J24]

I was listening/watching Cowherd today and he had Michael Lombardi on. Well Lombardi basically said the redzone fault was all on Dalton and called him a 20/20 guy. Meaning betweens the 20 he is good but in the redzone he is terrible. Well I did some research and according to teamrankings.com they had the Bengals 2nd in 2013 with 71.43%, Bengals 10th in 2014 with 58%, and Bengals 6th with 65% scoring in the redzone Tds only. I think those stats prove that the problem is not Andy's and Lombardi is a worthless piece of crap. As for what the problem is i think the combination of not having Eifert and Zampese play calling is the problem.

[PlayerFormerlyKnownAsMousecop]

(09-30-2016, 04:36 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Inside the red zone, it's no surprise that the Bengals have struggled inside the red zone. You watch the games, you can tell. But just how bad are they?

Well, currently they rank 29th in the league with scoring a TD in the red zone with a percentage of 30.77%. To make it worse, on the road they have a percentage of 16.67%. Home isn't much better with a ranking of 42.86%. Which would rank them 21st in the NFL.

In comparison, the Bengals were tied for 5th in the league with 65%.

So let's take a deeper look at the team.

Inside the 10 yard line, the Bengals have only run with Hill. They've ran 5 times with him for a total of 3 yards inside the 10.

Inside the 10 yard line, the Bengals have passed the ball 6 times for one completion. Uzomah has been targeted twice. Boyd targeted once. LaFell targeted once. And Green targeted once. Along with one throw away. Green is the only one to catch a pass inside the 10, and he did that last night.

But let's look at the packages that the Bengals have done with running situations. On EVERY single run inside the 10 yard line, they've used multiple offensive lineman. And on 2 of Dalton's 6 throws have come out of the same formation.

So what does this mean? It's predictable. Multiple offensive lineman? Stack the box and have someone on Uzomah. Because that's the first read and a lot of Zampese's passing offense is first read.

The other 4 throws? One was a TD to Green in a normal formation. LaFell was barely out of bounds on one throw. One was a throw away. And the other was that drop/deflection to Boyd last night.

Zampese's red zone offense is one of the worst in the league. And it has no reason to be. You have some very good players, but inside the red zone gets very predictable. They've had 6 or more offensive lineman on 7 of their 11 tries inside the 10 yard line. Sure, they've scored 3 total TDs inside the 10 (2 for Hill, 1 for Green). But that's it. This team has too much talent to be that predictable inside the red zone.

Okay, it's not like the defense can just key in on Hill and triple team AJ. Oh, wait...

The reason we haven't been throwing those fades to AJ is because they haven't been there. We don't have the weapons at the moment to execute in the red zone as an elite offense.

However, once Eifert is back, even if he's only used as a decoy at first, the whole dynamic of our redzone offense changes. Teams cannot account for Green, Hill, and Eifert in the redzone. That's why our redzone offense was so successful last year.

I'd even go as far to say that the lack of running game stems from our lack of weapons on the offensive side. Teams know we're basically going to do two things to get big plays: Hand the ball to Hill, or throw the ball to Green.

One thing I am worried about, though, is the O-line play. They need to be able to give Dalton more space in the pocket. He looks like he's being swallowed up every play back there.

The fact Dalton has performed as well as he has with the O-line being as bad as it has been is nothing short of MVP play. Palmer never would have been able to do that.

[wolfkaosaun]

(09-30-2016, 05:24 PM)PlayerFormerlyKnownAsMousecop Wrote: Okay, it's not like the defense can just key in on Hill and triple team AJ. Oh, wait...

The reason we haven't been throwing those fades to AJ is because they haven't been there. We don't have the weapons at the moment to execute in the red zone as an elite offense.

However, once Eifert is back, even if he's only used as a decoy at first, the whole dynamic of our redzone offense changes. Teams cannot account for Green, Hill, and Eifert in the redzone. That's why our redzone offense was so successful last year.

I'd even go as far to say that the lack of running game stems from our lack of weapons on the offensive side. Teams know we're basically going to do two things to get big plays: Hand the ball to Hill, or throw the ball to Green.

One thing I am worried about, though, is the O-line play. They need to be able to give Dalton more space in the pocket. He looks like he's being swallowed up every play back there.

The fact Dalton has performed as well as he has with the O-line being as bad as it has been is nothing short of MVP play. Palmer never would have been able to do that.

Green is left one on one right here.

And I understand Eifert has been a great red zone target, but they've tried to put Uzomah in his place. Uzomah is the most targeted receiver in the red zone inside the 10. So it's not like they havent been doing plays like they would to Eifert.

They need to give their other players chances as well. The Bengals have been predictable inside the red zone, especially inside the 10. EVERY single one of the runs inside the 10 have been with 6 offensive lineman. And they've done multiple goal-line looks as well.

They aren't giving the defenses much confusion. 2 of Dalton's 6 throws inside the 10 have the same personnel. Only 4 other times have they actually gone with at least a two WR set. That's far too predictable.

Sure, the offensive line hasn't done well, but it's not like we don't have weapons. Last year, Marvin Jones had 10 receptions for 165 yards and 2 TDs. Meanwhile LaFell has 208 yards on 13 receptions, but no TDs.

Let's then go to Sanu. He had 9 receptions for 161 yards with 0 TDs. Boyd has 12 receptions for 130 yards, 0 TDs.

One can say the difference is Eifert, but there's been a SIGNIFICANT drop in red zone production that can't just be "Eifert is out".

You have Gio. You have Hill. You have Green. You have LaFell. You have Boyd.

There's weapons. Boyd is an upgrade over Sanu (even looking at this year's production Boyd is doing basically just as good).

It's the play calling. Defenses know once you're in a 6 or more offensive lineman formation, it's a run and to keep a safety over the tight end. There's no confusion or adjustments.

[PlayerFormerlyKnownAsMousecop]

(09-30-2016, 06:52 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote:

Green is left one on one right here.

And I understand Eifert has been a great red zone target, but they've tried to put Uzomah in his place. Uzomah is the most targeted receiver in the red zone inside the 10. So it's not like they havent been doing plays like they would to Eifert.

They need to give their other players chances as well. The Bengals have been predictable inside the red zone, especially inside the 10. EVERY single one of the runs inside the 10 have been with 6 offensive lineman. And they've done multiple goal-line looks as well.

They aren't giving the defenses much confusion. 2 of Dalton's 6 throws inside the 10 have the same personnel. Only 4 other times have they actually gone with at least a two WR set. That's far too predictable.

Sure, the offensive line hasn't done well, but it's not like we don't have weapons. Last year, Marvin Jones had 10 receptions for 165 yards and 2 TDs. Meanwhile LaFell has 208 yards on 13 receptions, but no TDs.

Let's then go to Sanu. He had 9 receptions for 161 yards with 0 TDs. Boyd has 12 receptions for 130 yards, 0 TDs.

One can say the difference is Eifert, but there's been a SIGNIFICANT drop in red zone production that can't just be "Eifert is out".

You have Gio. You have Hill. You have Green. You have LaFell. You have Boyd.

There's weapons. Boyd is an upgrade over Sanu (even looking at this year's production Boyd is doing basically just as good).

It's the play calling. Defenses know once you're in a 6 or more offensive lineman formation, it's a run and to keep a safety over the tight end. There's no confusion or adjustments.

Not to completely disagree with you but that's one play from one game.

Eifert WAS our redzone production last year. He had something like 13 redzone TD's in 13 games. Without him, we have no redzone offense.

We'll see once Eifert comes back who's right and who's wrong, obviously. I hope that I'm right.

[wolfkaosaun]

(09-30-2016, 07:28 PM)PlayerFormerlyKnownAsMousecop Wrote: Not to completely disagree with you but that's one play from one game.

Eifert WAS our redzone production last year. He had something like 13 redzone TD's in 13 games. Without him, we have no redzone offense.

We'll see once Eifert comes back who's right and who's wrong, obviously. I hope that I'm right.

But what I'm saying is the Bengals don't do 2 WR formations inside the 10 very much. That's one play out of 4 that have 2 WR formations. Dalton threw a TD to Green on one of those 4 throws, and we saw that last night.

While Eifert is a big red zone production player, it's not like we don't have weapons. You mean to tell me that we were inside the 5 yard line with a 1st down against the Dolphins and couldn't gain a yard?

Eifert will be a nice addition, but if your play calling is predictable then it won't have the kind of impact we all hope for. It's not about the players, it's about the coaching. And that's what I'm worried about.

[*Nately120*]

Go figure, Hue's cuteness and Eifert being alive played a role in our offense being top-tier. It's like we braced ourselves for Zampese and Kroft to seamlessly take over and possibly even be better for nothing!

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-30-2016, 04:36 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Inside the red zone, it's no surprise that the Bengals have struggled inside the red zone. You watch the games, you can tell. But just how bad are they?

Well, currently they rank 29th in the league with scoring a TD in the red zone with a percentage of 30.77%. To make it worse, on the road they have a percentage of 16.67%. Home isn't much better with a ranking of 42.86%. Which would rank them 21st in the NFL.

In comparison, the Bengals were tied for 5th in the league with 65%.

So let's take a deeper look at the team.

Inside the 10 yard line, the Bengals have only run with Hill. They've ran 5 times with him for a total of 3 yards inside the 10.

Inside the 10 yard line, the Bengals have passed the ball 6 times for one completion. Uzomah has been targeted twice. Boyd targeted once. LaFell targeted once. And Green targeted once. Along with one throw away. Green is the only one to catch a pass inside the 10, and he did that last night.

But let's look at the packages that the Bengals have done with running situations. On EVERY single run inside the 10 yard line, they've used multiple offensive lineman. And on 2 of Dalton's 6 throws have come out of the same formation.

So what does this mean? It's predictable.  Multiple offensive lineman?  Stack the box and have someone on Uzomah. Because that's the first read and a lot of Zampese's passing offense is first read.

The other 4 throws? One was a TD to Green in a normal formation. LaFell was barely out of bounds on one throw. One was a throw away. And the other was that drop/deflection to Boyd last night.

Zampese's red zone offense is one of the worst in the league. And it has no reason to be. You have some very good players, but inside the red zone gets very predictable. They've had 6 or more offensive lineman on 7 of their 11 tries inside the 10 yard line. Sure, they've scored 3 total TDs inside the 10 (2 for Hill, 1 for Green). But that's it. This team has too much talent to be that predictable inside the red zone.

Completely agree. There's no diversity in the red zone. Spreading the offense out, running off tackle or wide with Gio, play action to the TE. It's like they get near the end zone and get brain lock. 

[Luvnit2]

(09-30-2016, 05:01 PM)J24 Wrote: I was listening/watching Cowherd today and he had Michael Lombardi on. Well Lombardi basically said the redzone fault was all on Dalton and called him a 20/20 guy. Meaning betweens the 20 he is good but in the redzone he is terrible.  Well I did some research and according to teamrankings.com they had the Bengals 2nd in 2013 with 71.43%, Bengals 10th in 2014 with 58%, and Bengals 6th with 65% scoring in the redzone Tds only.  I think those stats prove that the problem is not Andy's and Lombardi is a worthless piece of crap. As for what the problem is i think the combination of not having Eifert and Zampese play calling is the problem.

Spot on, these talking heads do no research and don't want others to do it either. He is moron.

[CincyProduct]

(09-30-2016, 04:42 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: I don't think we've attempted one fade to Green inside the 10 so far at all this year. It may be a low percentage throw, but it's one of Green specialties and doesn't require the OL to hold their blocks for long periods of time. Call plays to your offensive strengths.

Umm green is blanketed with 2-3 guys in the red zone no way an already low percentage play will work. What we need is eifert or they need to trust uzumi in the red zone.

[Joelist]

Uzomah has been terrible in the "Eifert" role with multiple drops. Not sure where Kroft has gone to, but yes they need to shake up the formations in the red zone and set up some different possibilities.

[Aquapod770]

(10-01-2016, 08:13 PM)CincyProduct Wrote: Umm green is blanketed with 2-3 guys in the red zone no way an already low percentage play will work. What we need is eifert or they need to trust uzumi in the red zone.

Please scroll up a few posts and you'll see an example where he is lined up 1 on 1. He's not blanketed every single play. Zamp just doesn't seem to like to call fades. 

[fredtoast]

(09-30-2016, 06:52 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote:  The Bengals have been predictable inside the red zone, especially inside the 10. EVERY single one of the runs inside the 10 have been with 6 offensive lineman.

Your logic fails because they have not ran the ball every time they line up in that formation.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(10-02-2016, 12:04 AM)Joelist Wrote: Uzomah has been terrible in the "Eifert" role with multiple drops. Not sure where Kroft has gone to, but yes they need to shake up the formations in the red zone and set up some different possibilities.

No he hasn't. He's had 2 legitimate drops that were his fault. All of the others were due to a wet football, someone knocking it out or poor throws by Andy. Eifert would've dropped these as well.

He hasn't been bad at all, but when Eifert's the best in the league at what he does, anybody will pale in comparison.

[*Synric*]

A large part the poor red zone play is the inability to run the football...Linebackers are able to play soft and read to play instead of being forced to attack gaps.

[Nicomo Cosca]

This Jordan Reed is lighting it up in Washington. Two TD's already. What a difference a good TE makes in the RZ.