Marvin Lewis Number 1 failure

[JumboTron]

(10-07-2016, 04:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Not by a mile.  He inherited a team that was just one year removed from making the playoffs and he has not won anything.

And he was an unknown.  He had never been a HC before.

Neither has Marvin, even with a team he helped BUILD.  Guys he helped hand pick, and he stills falls flat on his ass.  That's just disgusting. He should be ashamed of himself.

[Shake n Blake]

Simple question Fred. One that I've asked in years past and never got a clear answer for.

At what point do you look at the playoff record as evidence that Marv is doing something wrong?

0-8?
0-11?
0-19?
Never?

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-07-2016, 03:11 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I think people are interchanging IMPOSSIBLE with IMPROBABLE when they aren't the same thing.

After this many attempts I lean heavy towards it being IMPROBABLE that Marvin Lewis can make it to or win a Superbowl as a head coach given his past performances. This many years in the sample size is large enough to have lost faith in anything other than a lucky win - which isn't IMPOSSIBLE. After so long, it's time to let someone else run the on field stuff as it's IMPROBABLE Marvin can do any better. The rosters can't be any better than what he's had, quite frankly.

The meltdown at Paul Brown was the most embarrassing way a team has lost in the playoffs.... EVER. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in monumental flame-out fashion. No great coach would have allowed that. EVER. Great coaches win Superbowls. Mediocre ones take top 5 rosters and win the AFC North. /THREAD

Improbable, certainly. But there are people that will say there's no way he can, which up to now has proven true but doesn't really predict the possibility for the future. 

The law of large numbers dictates that at some point, given a long enough timeline, it will happen. 

Now the question is...how long will Marv live. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-07-2016, 03:19 PM)JumboTron Wrote: Well of course it's not IMPOSSIBLE.  It's not IMPOSSIBLE that the sun goes full super-nova and vaporizes the solar system within the next several days 

Actually, that is impossible. 

[JumboTron]

(10-07-2016, 06:24 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Actually, that is impossible. 

That's just what they want you to believe..... (que X-Files music)

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-07-2016, 04:07 PM)Benton Wrote: If you get asked to prom 7 times and hook up 0, are you any better than the guy who got asked 1 time and hooked up 0?

If you have 7 cases before the SCOTUS and lose 7, are you any better of a lawyer than the guy who had 1 case heard and lost it?

If you get arrested 7 times for assaulting a Frisch's Big Boy, are you a more successful criminal than a guy who assaults a Frisch's Big Boy once ad gets arrested?

If you run for office 7 times and don't get elected, are you a better politician than a guy who runs for office 1 time and loses?

What circumstance does failing in larger quantity equate a better job done? Maybe the guy who loads the guns for a firing squad, but not much else.

Only in Fred's spinning just to argue, contrarian world.

Fred can't admit that anything less than winning the Super Bowl is a failure because he's painted himself into a corner defending an inferior HC and has nowhere else to run.

[James Brooks]

Lots to like about Marv. However, I believe his biggest flaw is that he does not hold players and coaches accountable for their performances/actions. That flaw can be a fatal flaw. Although my perspective is from my couch.

[fredtoast]

(10-07-2016, 08:27 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Fred can't admit that anything less than winning the Super Bowl is a failure because he's painted himself into a corner defending an inferior HC and has nowhere else to run.

actually i can show you millions of fans from every team in the nfl cheering wildly for wins other than super bowl championships.

people who claim there is no difference between going 4-12 and losing in the playoffs have no grasp on realty.

[StoneTheCrow]

Whether you're happy with Marv Lukewarm or not, I think this thread illustrates one thing. The only person on the planet who has SUPREME confidence in that guy is Mike Buster Brown.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-08-2016, 10:33 AM)fredtoast Wrote: actually i can show you millions of fans from every team in the nfl cheering wildly for wins other than super bowl championships.

people who claim there is no difference between going 4-12 and losing in the playoffs have no grasp on realty.

Fred the goal of every team every year is to win the Super Bowl - period. Even you can't dispute that simple fact. Granted there are gonna be 31 failures every season.

But every single team is working every day towards that goal - period. Even you can't dispute that simple fact.

Now if we or any other team for that matter was 4-12 or 6-10 last year and not making the playoffs for several years in a row, sure a successful regular season and one and done would be a great accomplishment.

We're not that team we have to make the next step for any measure of success - period. Even you can't dispute this simple fact.

And like others have said, we're even basically past the point where a single playoff win is enough. We need to go to the big dance for true success !

So while your example is true for many teams We're not that team


And on a scale of 1 - 10 I have like  .00001 % faith in Marvin Lewis getting us there.

[bengalsturntup926]

I've been reading these boards for a long time. And I have never heard Fred toast say anything negative about the Bengals. He sounds like the Bengals PR guy. One thing he said is we haven't had the talent. But hold on, I thought he was draft guru genius amongst Bengal fans. And really I'm not crazy about his drafting. Now I'll go on why I don't like Marvin again.

One thing that I'm excited about is activating Cody core. But the only reason he's playing is because of injury!! Marvin always always done this, except once he pulled Terrance Newman and Kirkpatrick had himself a great game. Watch tomorrow Core will make plays more then we seen out of James weight. I mean jeez I'm a fan and I can say what we should do better then the coach.

I also agree his team takes on his personality as someone said. But I don't like marvin personally anymore, so what as Fred toast would say. He seems old and everything he says sounds dumb to me. He comes off untouchable and arrogant and bullshits us fans around. Like the year with marvin Jones, I knew in preseason he wasn't going to return and he led us along till mid season. Did the same thing with burfict,and he just did it again this week with eifert saying we'll see.

Game planning, someone mentioned it, we are conservative and play not to lose. He won't argue a bad call to save his life, he won't defend this team one bit. He pretty much says we have to get better, whether it's next week or next year, for the last 15 years it has been we got to get better. It's the same cycle. Draft guys and don't play them. Get some old vet as a free agent. Have to wait your turn to play, because seniority rules. Just like we need to find bodines replacement, but they say he's doing good. Bullshit!!

If marvin don't win one playoff game this year he better quit, or I'm not hardly getting involved with the Bengals hardly till he's gone. I won't even come here. It'll be time for me to move on from them and find something else. I will credit marvin Lewis with getting vontaze burfict here. Idk how he did it or why, but that payed off for us. He hasn't cared about udfa's since.

[BengalB]

I see how well Zim is doing in Minnesota and my heart aches.

Goodness, what could've been.

If Mikey would've just canned Marv and promoted Zim...

It physically hurts to think about it.

[Beaker]

(10-07-2016, 04:07 PM)Benton Wrote: If you get asked to prom 7 times and hook up 0, are you any better than the guy who got asked 1 time and hooked up 0?

If you have 7 cases before the SCOTUS and lose 7, are you any better of a lawyer than the guy who had 1 case heard and lost it?

If you get arrested 7 times for assaulting a Frisch's Big Boy, are you a more successful criminal than a guy who assaults a Frisch's Big Boy once ad gets arrested?

If you run for office 7 times and don't get elected, are you a better politician than a guy who runs for office 1 time and loses?

What circumstance does failing in larger quantity equate a better job done? Maybe the guy who loads the guns for a firing squad, but not much else.

The only example that works in this analogy is the prom example. It is an accomplishment to go to the prom, but a failure not to hook up once there. It is an accomplishment to make the playoffs, but a failure not to win once there.

[CageTheBengal]

The biggest problem with Marv is how he speaks to the fans and the media? Who knew that was the key to football. Someone remind Rex Ryan!

We have no idea what he is saying behind closed doors and it's really none of our business but I bet it isn't the same thing he is saying to the media. Why would he speak to the media like he does his team? This thread makes no sense.

[fredtoast]

(10-08-2016, 03:14 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: We're not that team we have to make the next step for any measure of success - period. Even you can't dispute this simple fact.

No I do not have to admit that.  Last year we looked like a Super Bowl team until Dalton got injured.

Even you can not dispute this simple fact.  

[fredtoast]

(10-07-2016, 05:34 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Simple question Fred. One that I've asked in years past and never got a clear answer for.

At what point do you look at the playoff record as evidence that Marv is doing something wrong?

0-8?
0-11?
0-19?
Never?

At a point where he consistently has better talent but loses anyway.

You want to fire Marvin for losing to the Texans when they had the number one defense and the nuber two rushing offense in the league while Marvin had starters like OG Mike McGlynn and WR Ryan Whalen on offense and a defense full of cheap retreads like Chris CRocker, Manny Lawson, Thomas Howard.

Personally I think that was a good coaching job instead of something he should be fired for.

[Socal Bengals fan]

(10-09-2016, 08:05 AM)BengalB Wrote: I see how well Zim is doing in Minnesota and my heart aches.

Goodness, what could've been.

If Mikey would've just canned Marv and promoted Zim...

It physically hurts to think about it.

Agree bro

[JumboTron]

(10-09-2016, 10:02 AM)fredtoast Wrote: At a point where he consistently has better talent but loses anyway.

You want to fire Marvin for losing to the Texans when they had the number one defense and the nuber two rushing offense in the league while Marvin had starters like OG Mike McGlynn and WR Ryan Whalen on offense and a defense full of cheap retreads like Chris CRocker, Manny Lawson, Thomas Howard.

Personally I think that was a good coaching job instead of something he should be fired for.

0-7 in the playoffs in 13 seasons.  If you think we did not have better talent than San Diego in '13 or Pittsburgh last year in the Post-Season you need not to further comment as your credibility will be void. 

I shudder at what it would take for Marvin to lose his job in your mind, I truly do.  

[Luvnit2]

(10-09-2016, 06:53 AM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: I've been reading these boards for a long time.  And I have never heard Fred toast say anything negative about the Bengals. He sounds like the Bengals PR guy.  One thing he said is we haven't had the talent.  But hold on,  I thought he was draft guru genius amongst Bengal fans.  And really I'm not crazy about his drafting. Now I'll go on why I don't like Marvin again.

One thing that I'm excited about is activating Cody core.  But the only reason he's playing is because of injury!!  Marvin always always done this, except once he pulled Terrance Newman and Kirkpatrick had himself a great game. Watch tomorrow Core will make plays more then we seen out of James weight. I mean jeez I'm a fan and I can say what we should do better then the coach.  

I also agree his team takes on his personality as someone said. But I don't like marvin personally anymore, so what as Fred toast would say.  He seems old and everything he says sounds dumb to me.  He comes off untouchable and arrogant and bullshits us fans around. Like the year with marvin Jones, I knew in preseason he wasn't going to return and he led us along till mid season. Did the same thing with burfict,and he just did it again this week with eifert saying we'll see.

Game planning, someone mentioned it, we are conservative and play not to lose. He won't argue a bad call to save his life, he won't defend this team one bit. He pretty much says we have to get better, whether it's next week or next year, for the last 15 years it has been we got to get better.  It's the same cycle. Draft guys and don't play them. Get some old vet as a free agent.  Have to wait your turn to play, because seniority rules.  Just like we need to find bodines replacement, but they say he's doing good. Bullshit!!

If marvin don't win one playoff game this year he better quit, or I'm not hardly getting involved with the Bengals hardly till he's gone.  I won't even come here. It'll be time for me to move on from them and find something else. I will credit marvin Lewis with getting vontaze burfict here.  Idk how he did it or why, but that payed off for us.  He hasn't cared about udfa's since.

When do players get held accountable? ML and the staff had this team in position to win against a very good Steelers team with a backup QB? Did ML fumble that shot away? No, he did not. Our players have to figure a way to win playoff games too, not just the head coach. As far as only real winner each year is the Super Bowl winner, it is true, but I can tell you it is a lot more fun cheering for our team in January and losing than ignoring them by mid October because they had not shot at the playoffs. As a season ticket holder in those down years, I could not give away my 2 seats to a Bengals fan and I found other things to do on game day.

[Luvnit2]

(10-09-2016, 10:57 AM)JumboTron Wrote: 0-7 in the playoffs in 13 seasons.  If you think we did not have better talent than San Diego in '13 or Pittsburgh last year in the Post-Season you need not to further comment as your credibility will be void. 

I shudder at what it would take for Marvin to lose his job in your mind, I truly do.  

How may new head coaches have entered the NFL since ML became head coach? How many won Super Bowls? Good luck finding the needle in a hay stack.