Next Year's Draft

[*SHRacerX*]

Yes, people will hate me for bringing this up already, as though I am waving the white flag, but with a projected 2 additional 4th rounders and 2 additional 6th rounders, it will be a very important draft class.

The big wildcard for me is Dre Kirkpatrick. If they sign him, they clearly won't be going corner very early. If he is let go in FA, they will be drafting another one in the first round. (Save the jokes about how he can sit for three years before making any impact).

I am guessing they sign him and let Zeitler walk. So, here goes with my hopes for next year's draft.

Oh, and don't bother posting BPA, we all know that lip-service.

1.) Pass rushing DE. This doesn't have to be the three-down player the Bengals covet. He can be a specialist early. We need speed on the right side and not another player that rotates to the DT position. A pure outside burner.

2.) Guard/Center- Zeiter gone, and even with other players ready to step in the Bengals need a mauler at the RG position.

3.) LB- Someone that can cover to go with Vigil, but a bit larger to hold up in the middle.

4.) Guard/Center- We need more than one

4.) RB- I don't see Hill coming back

4.) Pass-rushing DE- We need more than one

5.)WR- Yep, even with the drafting of Boyd and Core last year, I think the Bengals need to find a vertical threat to take the proverbial top off the defense. Boyd is developing nicely in the slot and I would imagine we will start to see Core get more opportunities as the season goes further in the toilet. (Hey, I want to believe otherwise, but this looks like a legion of corpses out there...good timing as The Walking Dead makes its return).

6.) LB- Depth is needed at this underappreciated position

6.) S- Depth is needed here as well

6.) CB- Depth is needed here as well

7.) G/C- a potential developmental project

[jj22]

Hate to say this but we need OT's again. Some that can handle the AFCN.

[fredtoast]

(10-18-2016, 09:37 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Yes, people will hate me for bringing this up already, as though I am waving the white flag, but with a projected 2 additional 4th rounders and 2 additional 6th rounders, it will be a very important draft class.

No hate here.  I just think it is way too early to start talking about what we need next year.

6 games into his rookie season 4th round pick Geno Atkins had a total of 4 tackles.  Carlos Dunlap had 7 tackles and 1 sack six games into his rookie season.  Jeremy Hill only had 170 yards through the first six games of his rookie season.

Lots of things can  change over the next 11 weeks.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-18-2016, 09:51 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No hate here.  I just think it is way too early to start talking about what we need next year.

6 games into his rookie season 4th round pick Geno Atkins had a total of 4 tackles.  Carlos Dunlap had 7 tackles and 1 sack six games into his rookie season.  Jeremy Hill only had 170 yards through the first six games of his rookie season.

Lots of things can  change over the next 11 weeks.

True, but I don't see a player in his sixth year like MJ suddenly developing an outside speed rush, nor do I see Maualuga or Dansby being able to run with TEs.  

I still have high hopes for the likes of Clarke, Derron Smith, Dennard, etc. but I don't see many veterans suddenly changing in to top tier talent.  

I am also very hopeful that Billings and Hardison can improve the front four, but there is still a lot of work needing to be done at the LB corps.  I am, for the first time, genuinely afraid that Burfict may not be here any longer.  He just can't seem to bury the stupid Burfict and let the amazing Burfict play the game.  So depressing. 

[OrlandoBengal]

(10-18-2016, 10:37 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: True, but I don't see a player in his sixth year like MJ suddenly developing an outside speed rush, nor do I see Maualuga or Dansby being able to run with TEs.  

I still have high hopes for the likes of Clarke, Derron Smith, Dennard, etc. but I don't see many veterans suddenly changing in to top tier talent.  

I am also very hopeful that Billings and Hardison can improve the front four, but there is still a lot of work needing to be done at the LB corps.  I am, for the first time, genuinely afraid that Burfict may not be here any longer.  He just can't seem to bury the stupid Burfict and let the amazing Burfict play the game.  So depressing. 

With Dennard looking like he has when on the field, and his history or injuries, I think they have to make a run at Kirkpatrick.  They really don't know what they have in Jackson and Pacman is getting older by the day.

Looking at your list, I realize that for the first time in a long time, the Bengals could enter the draft with quite a lot of holes to fill.  Given the approach to free agency, that is a scary thought.

[BengalFanInNJ]

This draft doesn't seem to have any standout Offensive Tackles. Pocic and Elflein are the two best Centers that will be taken within the first two rounds.

I don't think they'll be picking in the top-10, but if they do, please take Jabrill Peppers*.




*I am reserving the right to change my mind no more than 1,000 times between now and the draft.

[Goalpost]

Don't know if they will look for another TE. Eifert gets an option around 5 mil next year. But after that he is looking at a 50 mil deal.

[Daddy-O]

They have to sign Dre K because he is a capable starting NFL corner, not great but serviceable and they're hard to come by. Dennard does not have the speed IMO to be on the outside and William Jackson, who knows? We need to start placing a higher value on the o-line, specifically center as its the cornerstone for the offense. If we let Zeitler walk we then have to draft 2 OL high. If we can get him at a decent price it's better to sign him. He's having a bad year but a lot could be attributed to the leaky faucet next to him.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-18-2016, 11:09 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: They have to sign Dre K because he is a capable starting NFL corner, not great but serviceable and they're hard to come by.  Dennard does not have the speed IMO to be on the outside and William Jackson, who knows?  We need to start placing a higher value on the o-line, specifically center as its the cornerstone for the offense.  If we let Zeitler walk we then have to draft 2 OL high.  If we can get him at a decent price it's better to sign him.  He's having a bad year but a lot could be attributed to the leaky faucet next to him.

I agree that they will try to keep Dre, but I bet that Zeitler walks.  He won't get near DeCastro money, here or elsewhere, and I think he might be delusional that he will get close to that since he was drafted close to him.  Zeitler seemeed like the better pick early, with DeCastro tearing his ACL early in his rookie season, but he sure doesn't seem as strong at the point of attack.    

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-18-2016, 10:51 AM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: With Dennard looking like he has when on the field, and his history or injuries, I think they have to make a run at Kirkpatrick.  They really don't know what they have in Jackson and Pacman is getting older by the day.

Looking at your list, I realize that for the first time in a long time, the Bengals could enter the draft with quite a lot of holes to fill.  Given the approach to free agency, that is a scary thought.

Agreed on the holes, but I think Dennard will still develop in to a strong outside CB.  He had a faster 40 than Antonio Brown coming out of college, so I don't think it is his speed.  I think his long layoff has greatly slowed his development, but his football IQ is one of the things I like best about him.  I think we will see more and more of Dennard this year and that can only help him.  

I think they will try to keep Dre Kirk as well, but I wonder if we don't run in to another scenario where he wants to play elsewhere, even if the offer is close.  To a team with a better pass rush, perhaps?  I bet Carolina will be looking for a FA corner.  

[3wt]

Fortunately, as Fred pointed out, we have a lot of time to see what develops.  If Ogbuehi improves and Bodine continues to improve that will help us mightily.  And I'm hoping that our safeties start to improve.  There are a couple of really good safeties that will go in the top 5 - 15.  I'd love either of the top two.  And I'd love to get a top notch DE.   They have been placed all over the place.  I love Barnett out of Tennessee.   He is a really good talent and motor, and seems to have a high football IQ.

Agree with all your cataloguing of needs.   WR, G, C, LB (in no particular order).    We need more speed on the defense and another receiver who can flat out stretch the field and catch.   Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a big field for them this year.

And I do think they go best player available given the array of needs we have.  Hopefully they pick the right guy

[J24]

(10-18-2016, 09:37 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Yes, people will hate me for bringing this up already, as though I am waving the white flag, but with a projected 2 additional 4th rounders and 2 additional 6th rounders, it will be a very important draft class.

The big wildcard for me is Dre Kirkpatrick.  If they sign him, they clearly won't be going corner very early.  If he is let go in FA, they will be drafting another one in the first round.  (Save the jokes about how he can sit for three years before making any impact).

I am guessing they sign him and let Zeitler walk.  So, here goes with my hopes for next year's draft.

Oh, and don't bother posting BPA, we all know that lip-service.

1.) Pass rushing DE.  This doesn't have to be the three-down player the Bengals covet.  He can be a specialist early.  We need speed on the right side and not another player that rotates to the DT position.  A pure outside burner.  

2.) Guard/Center- Zeiter gone, and even with other players ready to step in the Bengals need a mauler at the RG position.

3.) LB- Someone that can cover to go with Vigil, but a bit larger to hold up in the middle.

4.) Guard/Center- We need more than one

4.) RB- I don't see Hill coming back

4.) Pass-rushing DE- We need more than one

5.)WR- Yep, even with the drafting of Boyd and Core last year, I think the Bengals need to find a vertical threat to take the proverbial top off the defense.  Boyd is developing nicely in the slot and I would imagine we will start to see Core get more opportunities as the season goes further in the toilet. (Hey, I want to believe otherwise, but this looks like a legion of corpses out there...good timing as The Walking Dead makes its return).

6.) LB- Depth is needed at this underappreciated position

6.) S- Depth is needed here as well

6.) CB- Depth is needed here as well

7.) G/C- a potential developmental project

I would rather sign Zeitler then Kirkpatrick for a couple of reasons.
#1 Zeitler is younger and plays a much cheaper position
#2 We have invested so much at Corner compared to guard. We have 2 more first round picks at corner, a good nickel in shaw, and we got keivere Russell who was a third round pick from the chiefs this past draft. Meanwhile at Guard we have Boiling, Wasserman, and Hopkins on the Practice squad. 
#3 I think Kirkpatrick is a good player but Zeitler has proven to be a great top 10 player at his position.

As for needs
DE/DT- Disagree with you on this again. Geno needs a buddy next to him in nickel situations and somebody to take his spot when he is resting.
C- Bodine Sucks I don't think I need to go any further
WR- Laffell is a solid player but we need more especially with Efeirts injury concerns.  I would go two or three guys overall at this position.
Edge rusher-agree with you on this we need somebody hell bent on getting to the QB.
DE- I would get a guy that can backup Dunlap and another to back up MJ when Clark leaves in two offseason.
After that its all window dressing for me where solid at LB with Vontaz, Virgil, Dawson, and V Rey maybe a hybrid Safety/LB but I don't think its a " Huge need" area. OT, S, and CB all would be nice but we can survive at those areas as is.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-19-2016, 09:31 PM)J24 Wrote: I would rather sign Zeitler then Kirkpatrick for a couple of reasons.
#1 Zeitler is younger and plays a much cheaper position
#2 We have invested so much at Corner compared to guard. We have 2 more first round picks at corner, a good nickel in shaw, and we got keivere Russell who was a third round pick from the chiefs this past draft. Meanwhile at Guard we have Boiling, Wasserman, and Hopkins on the Practice squad. 
#3 I think Kirkpatrick is a good player but Zeitler has proven to be a great top 10 player at his position.

Quote:I disagree strongly with you here.  Zeitler is a dime a dozen player at this point.  Starting outside corners that can play man coverage are not.  Kirkpatrick is much more rare than Zeitler.  Wasserman?  Did you mean Westerman?  He is a rookie with no NFL experience.  See how that is working for our first rounder?  I was also under the impression they had released Hopkins?  Maybe they re-signed him to PS?

As for needs
DE/DT- Disagree with you on this again. Geno needs a buddy next to him in nickel situations and somebody to take his spot when he is resting.
C- Bodine Sucks I don't think I need to go any further
WR- Laffell is a solid player but we need more especially with Efeirts injury concerns.  I would go two or three guys overall at this position.
Edge rusher-agree with you on this we need somebody hell bent on getting to the QB.
DE- I would get a guy that can backup Dunlap and another to back up MJ when Clark leaves in two offseason.
After that its all window dressing for me where solid at LB with Vontaz, Virgil, Dawson, and V Rey maybe a hybrid Safety/LB but I don't think its a " Huge need" area. OT, S, and CB all would be nice but we can survive at those areas as is.

Quote:My first round pick was for a DE, but not a DT or a DE that rotates inside.  They have Billings, Hardison, Hunt, Clarke and Sims for the rotational DT spot.  But I see the #1 need is a pass rush threat on the right side.  

As far as the WR and TE positions go, they already have Core in the wings, and TE might be their most complete position group with Eifert, Kroft, and Uzomah.  The problem with this group has been the inability to have them all together healthy and to actually use them in an unpredictable fashion.  Have Uzo stay in to block and Kroft go out for a pass.  Run the offense with both on the field. It is just like our RBs....Gio is the only one that catches the ball.  Before anyone says that Uzo isn't a good blocker, then they need to develop him in to one.  I was pissed at his selection when Nick Boyle, a TE from Delaware, was available and went two picks later to the ratbirds.  That guy could have helped our running game and can still move the sticks.  He was the best blocking TE in the draft that year, but we fell in love with another great athletic project.

I like Derron Smith and I wonder if he will be given more opportunities with the struggles of Williams.  If WJIII pans out, and they sign Dre, Dennard might become the slot corner and Josh Shaw could get a look at safety.  I think he is the only CB that could do that on our roster.  

[phil413]

I'm seeing the word "need" a lot in this thread. I see your 4th line regarding BPA, but you can't just dismiss the idea or we're really just ranking needs which are irrelevant of how the draft shakes down. I can humor you and say Cincy needs a pass rushing DE, interior OL, heck your list looks mint in that regard, but drafting well is more than a cliché. Even if you don't believe you can over draft you shouldn't even lean a heavy priority to need. Many players are underperforming, so I guess the good news is there are many needs, but they still have the rest of the season to prove themselves or actually make the playoffs. Even if coaching changes happen, Duke, Katie and Mikey likely won't buck from drafting big money positions higher (T over G, CB over S, ect..). What we may see, for better or for worse is seeing them a little more guaranteed money even short term to some vets to plug holes so there isn't as much temptation to draft need.

The last 3 years they've been taking and stashing players and most of them haven't reached their potential. Starting rookies won't up and make new picks any better so they'll have to decide to actually spend some money. You can argue that it isn't "the Bengal way" but you can't let horror stories of dead money WR's from a decade ago or name off SB champs that didn't sign a big name FA make you shy away from plugging holes to preserve freedom to draft quality players vs leaning toward need. A descent vet center would allow Westerman to eventually replace Zeitler at RG instead as I agree they likely let him go, and allow you a buffer if they draft a young one to replace Bodine eventually. A young up and coming versatile LB would help bring stability so they're less tempted to move LB's around so much. Guenther is a good DC and many on this board know more of football than I do, but I wouldn't want to pass on a really good LB because he isn't as versatile, just give me talent for now. I get that this is an early look at the draft for the Bengals, but too much can and hopefully will happen before the draft.

[samhain]

A lot hinges on what Whitworth wants to do at the end of the season. There's been a rash of players retiring early, and at his age it would hardly be considered that. We have to really hope he wants to play another season. Without him, we're looking at either rolling with Fisher and Ogbuehi (yikes) or investing in another OT early in the draft. With Whit gone I think the OT spot is our biggest immediate need. I'd say perhaps there's a dark horse shot at them making a run at bringing Andre Smith back if they get desperate. He's not going to cost much as he didn't this year and he's coming off of an injury. They love bringing guys back.

As for the rest, my opinion on Bodine is evolving. If he can hold up for a solid rest of the year, I have no problem rolling with him. If he becomes a steady finished product, it would be a waste to develop him just to let him walk.

Ideally, I'd like to see them sign Whit and Zeitler and then draft a DE and a LB in the first 2 rounds. Burfict is in a precarious situation and the rest of that position group are nothing special. They flat out need to bring in some top end talent on the d-line. It's been too long since they invested a high pick there. Wait much longer, and even Atkins and Dunlap will start to decline.