Time for the Bengals to mix it up on defense

[Tlawsonmariat82]

(10-25-2016, 08:50 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You don't think the additions of Haslett (the LB's have played worse than any position on this team) and Burney have
something to do with it? Coyle as well even though i like the guy. First year for Haslett and Burney might be part of it.

The Linebackers are out of position far too often.

MJ, Peko and Atkins all look worse this year under Burney. Liked this hire but so far it could be a chemistry thing.

No I don't,position coaches don't call a defense that's all on Paulie to let his position coaches know exactly how he want things done further more it's only one new player on defense rest of these guys been here forever 

[fredtoast]

(10-25-2016, 09:29 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: No I don't,position coaches don't call a defense that's all on Paulie to let his position coaches know exactly how he want things done 

This makes no sense at all.

Anyone here could tell a player to shed blockers, make the proper read, and get into position to make a play.  But it takes a good coach to teach a player how to accomplish that.

It is like the difference between telling a QB "where" to throw a ball and "how" to throw a ball accurately.

[SFmajor]

(10-25-2016, 08:50 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You don't think the additions of Haslett (the LB's have played worse than any position on this team) and Burney have
something to do with it? Coyle as well even though i like the guy. First year for Haslett and Burney might be part of it.

The Linebackers are out of position far too often.

MJ, Peko and Atkins all look worse this year under Burney. Liked this hire but so far it could be a chemistry thing.

Then it has to be on the LB's who are playing then.  Since ML rarely pulls people. It's going to be this way until he is forced to make changes in the LB area.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-25-2016, 09:29 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: No I don't,position coaches don't call a defense that's all on Paulie to let his position coaches know exactly how he want things done further more it's only one new player on defense rest of these guys been here forever 

Well i don't just put it all on one guy on this one. Paulie G coached this Defense last year with different position coaches
and done well. Who is to say once they all get on the same page with what Geunther is doing the whole Defense might
improve. Chemistry is a bigger deal than i think you are letting on, and so are position coaches in their first year on a
new team.

(10-25-2016, 10:11 PM)SFmajor Wrote: Then it has to be on the LB's who are playing then.  Since ML rarely pulls people. It's going to be this way until he is forced to make changes in the LB area.

Burfict, Maualuga, Vinny Rey are the same players we had last year, added Dansby who just came off a great year
in Cleveland. Flowers is talented, your man Roach is a LB here. Vigil is talented. I say it is on the LB coach who has
these LB's playing out of position.

Burfict as well, who calls the plays for them.

[Derrick]

(10-25-2016, 10:32 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Burfict, Maualuga, Vinny Rey are the same players we had last year, added Dansby who just came off a great year
in Cleveland. Flowers is talented, your man Roach is a LB here. Vigil is talented. I say it is on the LB coach who has
these LB's playing out of position.

Burfict as well, who calls the plays for them.

Okay, these guys have played for Paulie over several seasons using the same system. How can a new position coach UNDO all that muscle memory, etc.??? Dansby is another story...

[Tlawsonmariat82]

(10-25-2016, 11:26 PM)Derrick Wrote: Okay, these guys have played for Paulie over several seasons using the same system. How can a new position coach UNDO all that muscle memory, etc.??? Dansby is another story...

My point exactly 

[Crowe]

(10-25-2016, 04:14 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: It's simple and it's become pretty obvious we've become a rush four play it safe defense...Pff has us blitzing 19% of the time which is good for 27th in the league and 68% of our blitzes came on 3rd down..I watched some of the Philly Minnesota game Sunday and the eagles beat them with the pressure packages,one second and 14 play they gave a look of all out blitz and when Bradford snapped the the eagles rushed two people completely fooling the offense...

When Paulie first took over we had a game against Atlanta in which he called so blitzes matt Ryan didn't know what hit em,I view it like a starting pitcher in baseball once you establish your fastball everything else will fall into place,you gotta get it in the offense head that your willing to come after them

I think up to this point our defense has been bad. Atkins hasn't been rushing as effectively as he normally does, Johnson has been mediocre since his return to cincy, Peko just stinks and that's just 3 of our starters on our dline. Let's take a look at our LB's. Burfict is a stud, but he looks out of shape and he plays too reckless at times. Dansby apparently from last year to this year, forgot how to cover, Rey M. stinks, Vinnie Rey, while playing better is pretty much a solid backup, we haven't really had a chance to see Vigil or Flowers and if Dawson decides to ever take his career serious, I would like to see what he and Roach could actually do. The secondary has talent, just a lot of inconsistencies. Dre makes some good plays one week and then looks lost the next, Jones is for the most part damn good, but he's missed some easy tackles and has given up a few more bigger plays this year compared to the last few, plus like Burfict he plays too reckless or emotional at times. Dennard was playing good last year before the injury, and that is the case with him, he's always injured. Shaw has looked good, but is he a guy that can look like that for extended periods or is it better to sub him in and out. Iloka is having a down year, Shawn Williams is another guy who like Kirk is inconsistent, he's shown flashes only to show us that he can look lost at other times. Derron Williams is a guy I would like to see get more playtime as well because of his playmaking abilities. And finally it looks like Paulie G. continues to fail at creating the proper gameplan to counter act our opponent. Against Dallas we allowed 2 damn rookies to make us look ridiculous. Against NE, why was Gronk open the entire second half? How did we allow 1 rookie qb to complete almost all of his passes and another rookie qb to run for over a 100 yards against Cleveland, friggin Cleveland. And Let us not forget about how we let Trevor Simian look like an all pro against us at home as well.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-25-2016, 11:26 PM)Derrick Wrote: Okay, these guys have played for Paulie over several seasons using the same system. How can a new position coach UNDO all that muscle memory, etc.??? Dansby is another story...

That is a good question. I don't know.

Bottomline is i thought our Linebackers would be a strength this year not a weakness. Haslett is the biggest change.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-26-2016, 08:25 AM)Crowe Wrote: I think up to this point our defense has been bad. Atkins hasn't been rushing as effectively as he normally does, Johnson has been mediocre since his return to cincy, Peko just stinks and that's just 3 of our starters on our dline. Let's take a look at our LB's. Burfict is a stud, but he looks out of shape and he plays too reckless at times. Dansby apparently from last year to this year, forgot how to cover, Rey M. stinks, Vinnie Rey, while playing better is pretty much a solid backup, we haven't really had a chance to see Vigil or Flowers and if Dawson decides to ever take his career serious, I would like to see what he and Roach could actually do.

The secondary has talent, just a lot of inconsistencies. Dre makes some good plays one week and then looks lost the next, Jones is for the most part damn good, but he's missed some easy tackles and has given up a few more bigger plays this year compared to the last few, plus like Burfict he plays too reckless or emotional at times. Dennard was playing good last year before the injury, and that is the case with him, he's always injured. Shaw has looked good, but is he a guy that can look like that for extended periods or is it better to sub him in and out. Iloka is having a down year, Shawn Williams is another guy who like Kirk is inconsistent, he's shown flashes only to show us that he can look lost at other times. Derron Williams is a guy I would like to see get more playtime as well because of his playmaking abilities.

And finally it looks like Paulie G. continues to fail at creating the proper gameplan to counter act our opponent. Against Dallas we allowed 2 damn rookies to make us look ridiculous. Against NE, why was Gronk open the entire second half? How did we allow 1 rookie qb to complete almost all of his passes and another rookie qb to run for over a 100 yards against Cleveland, friggin Cleveland. And Let us not forget about how we let Trevor Simian look like an all pro against us at home as well.

This is a spot on post about our Defense Crowe so i broke it up for others.

It is a head scratcher why our Defense has always played poorly against rookies or unknown QB's, this is since Bresnahan, not just Paulie G.

Zim had his problems here with unknown QB's like Shaun Hill and TJ Yates. I don't understand it except Marv is the HC.

But one thing is for sure something definately needs to be changed up.

[*Go Cards*]

Time for the rest of the guys to help Carlos Dunlap out.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-25-2016, 08:06 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: It's what the Steelers do EVERY SINGLE YEAR and they always have at least a solid D, even with random nobodies playing corner.  

I agree with the OP that this isn't really a rush 4 type of league any more.    The Broncos aka the current best D in the league aren't a rush 4 team.  Throughout the last superbowl they were rushing 5 constantly, and they weren't even disguising what they were doing really.  They were just lining up and putting 5 defenders against the 5 o-linemen.  

The Broncos had/have MUCH better DBs and LBs than the 2016 Bengals do. This is a huge reason they are able to constantly sending in a 5th rusher.

[Crowe]

(10-26-2016, 01:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: This is a spot on post about our Defense Crowe so i broke it up for others.

It is a head scratcher why our Defense has always played poorly against rookies or unknown QB's, this is since Bresnahan, not just Paulie G.

Zim had his problems here with unknown QB's like Shaun Hill and TJ Yates. I don't understand it except Marv is the HC.

But one thing is for sure something definately needs to be changed up.

lol thanks brother. I should have used paragraphs, it was initially meant to be short, but then I started to think about all the issues they had and just kept typing.

I still have no idea how our coaching staff seems to be completely unprepared for rookies, every season we see this happen.

I also feel the coaches do not know how to properly adjust to adversary in a game, take for example against NE, we pretty much held them in check all the way up to the safety, after that we couldn't do anything, we failed to stop them on defense and all of a sudden we couldn't even move the ball. 

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-27-2016, 08:17 AM)Crowe Wrote: lol thanks brother. I should have used paragraphs, it was initially meant to be short, but then I started to think about all the issues they had and just kept typing.

I still have no idea how our coaching staff seems to be completely unprepared for rookies, every season we see this happen.

I also feel the coaches do not know how to properly adjust to adversary in a game, take for example against NE, we pretty much held them in check all the way up to the safety, after that we couldn't do anything, we failed to stop them on defense and all of a sudden we couldn't even move the ball. 

This is one of Marvin's biggest problems ! If plan A fails there is no plan B. 

And I think a lot of that goes deeper and has to do with the old falling in love with your plan problem. "It's our plan, it's a good one (it has to be it's mine) and we're sticking to it.

The problem with this is that there is the matter of the enemy. You have to be able to adjust you plan to what the opposition is doing. And Marvin either can't or refuses to or both.

[Crowe]

(10-27-2016, 09:34 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: This is one of Marvin's biggest problems ! If plan A fails there is no plan B. 

And I think a lot of that goes deeper and has to do with the old falling in love with your plan problem. "It's our plan, it's a good one (it has to be it's mine) and we're sticking to it.

The problem with this is that there is the matter of the enemy. You have to be able to adjust you plan to what the opposition is doing. And Marvin either can't or refuses to or both.

Exactly!

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-27-2016, 08:17 AM)Crowe Wrote: lol thanks brother. I should have used paragraphs, it was initially meant to be short, but then I started to think about all the issues they had and just kept typing.

I still have no idea how our coaching staff seems to be completely unprepared for rookies, every season we see this happen.

I also feel the coaches do not know how to properly adjust to adversary in a game, take for example against NE, we pretty much held them in check all the way up to the safety, after that we couldn't do anything, we failed to stop them on defense and all of a sudden we couldn't even move the ball. 

(10-27-2016, 09:34 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: This is one of Marvin's biggest problems ! If plan A fails there is no plan B. 

And I think a lot of that goes deeper and has to do with the old falling in love with your plan problem. "It's our plan, it's a good one (it has to be it's mine) and we're sticking to it.

The problem with this is that there is the matter of the enemy. You have to be able to adjust you plan to what the opposition is doing. And Marvin either can't or refuses to or both.

Yeah, adjusting to adversity is Marv's biggest weakness and it bleeds on down it seems.

[CoreyK]

I am tired of the same old same old A gap blitz look myself.  Seems like Offensive Coordinators have caught on to that scheme for the most part this season. 

Since we are struggling at getting pressure with only our front four we need to Blitz Vontaze Burfict more IMO. 

He is very effective at blitzing and not so great as pass defender.  I would bring 5 after the QB on 3rd downs instead of 4. 

If we do not get quick pressure from our front four our LB and S are having a very difficult time in coverage against RB/TE.  If we send 5 it also means Geno Atkins is likely to get favorable 1 on 1 matchup as well as Dunlap.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-27-2016, 12:46 PM)CoreyK Wrote: I am tired of the same old same old A gap blitz look myself.  Seems like Offensive Coordinators have caught on to that scheme for the most part this season. 

Since we are struggling at getting pressure with only our front four we need to Blitz Vontaze Burfict more IMO. 

He is very effective at blitzing and not so great as pass defender.  I would bring 5 after the QB on 3rd downs instead of 4. 

If we do not get quick pressure from our front four our LB and S are having a very difficult time in coverage against RB/TE.  If we send 5 it also means Geno Atkins is likely to get favorable 1 on 1 matchup as well as Dunlap.

I am for this CoreyK. Burfict is a damn fine blitzer, use him there. He is our one guy that is a good blitzer besides maybe Dansby.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-27-2016, 12:46 PM)CoreyK Wrote: I am tired of the same old same old A gap blitz look myself.  Seems like Offensive Coordinators have caught on to that scheme for the most part this season. 

Since we are struggling at getting pressure with only our front four we need to Blitz Vontaze Burfict more IMO. 

He is very effective at blitzing and not so great as pass defender.  I would bring 5 after the QB on 3rd downs instead of 4. 

If we do not get quick pressure from our front four our LB and S are having a very difficult time in coverage against RB/TE.  If we send 5 it also means Geno Atkins is likely to get favorable 1 on 1 matchup as well as Dunlap.

Agree,

Just like our Offense under Zam man is way to predictable to often. Our defense is way to vanilla and predictable way to often. It's one of the bigger reasons we by and large have had our @$$es handed to us this season. Coaching is sub-par

(10-27-2016, 12:53 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I am for this CoreyK. Burfict is a damn fine blitzer, use him there. He is our one guy that is a good blitzer besides maybe Dansby.

Yup