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I fail to see how this was a genius move. They essentially traded away 8 games (plus playoffs) of a Pro Bowl LB to move up like 20 spots in the 3rd round next year. Tom Brady will hit the big 4-0 next year and the Pats are on fire right now...so I'd argue that that having Collins for the remainder of the season was more valuable than moving up in the 3rd round next year.
Also, the Browns win this trade. They get to slap the franchise tag on Collins while they attempt to lock down the Pro Bowl LB to a long term deal. Even if they can't lock him up, they'll still get a compensatory pick a little further down the line.
This move just reeks of "well you won't sign with us for cheap? Fine. We'll trade you to the worst team in football". With Brady's age, they should concentrate on THIS year.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
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(10-31-2016, 04:26 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Apparently Collins is looking for Von Miller type money. Also, I guess he's starting to freelance on the field and not follow the playbook as much.
Yep. No way the Bengals are going to trade a 3rd round pick for a Rent-A-Player that wants Von Miller money.
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(10-31-2016, 10:38 PM)Wyche Wrote: That's most likely a very good point. These two teams are polar opposites. You screw up in Foxboro....you hit the bricks. Meltdown that contributes to a 7th consecutive playoff loss....get suspended the first 3 games....only to show up fat and out of shape? Only in Cincy. That shit wouldn't have lasted out of the locker room after the game if it was NE.
How many two minute temper tantrums you think Adam Jones would have on the field at Foxboro ? Showing up other players and causing the team to have to use time outs ? While getting toasted and missing tackles on several plays every game, and remain a Patriot ?
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(10-31-2016, 10:50 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I fail to see how this was a genius move. They essentially traded away 8 games (plus playoffs) of a Pro Bowl LB to move up like 20 spots in the 3rd round next year. Tom Brady will hit the big 4-0 next year and the Pats are on fire right now...so I'd argue that that having Collins for the remainder of the season was more valuable than moving up in the 3rd round next year.
Also, the Browns win this trade. They get to slap the franchise tag on Collins while they attempt to lock down the Pro Bowl LB to a long term deal. Even if they can't lock him up, they'll still get a compensatory pick a little further down the line.
This move just reeks of "well you won't sign with us for cheap? Fine. We'll trade you to the worst team in football". With Brady's age, they should concentrate on THIS year.
I see your point.....and agree.....but on the other hand....it's hard to argue against the Patriot Way my brother.
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(10-31-2016, 10:53 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: How many two minute temper tantrums you think Adam Jones would have on the field at Foxboro ? Showing up other players and causing the team to have to use time outs ? While getting toasted and missing tackles on several plays every game, and remain a Patriot ?
You and I both know the answer to that.....
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(10-31-2016, 10:53 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: I see your point.....and agree.....but on the other hand....it's hard to argue against the Patriot Way my brother.
Overall, yes...but if the Pats make a mistake every great now and then, I feel like this would be a good candidate to go down as one.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
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(10-31-2016, 11:00 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Overall, yes...but if the Pats make a mistake every great now and then, I feel like this would be a good candidate to go down as one.
I could go along with that......
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(10-31-2016, 11:00 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Overall, yes...but if the Pats make a mistake every great now and then, I feel like this would be a good candidate to go down as one.
Logan Mankins...Chad Johnson...they aren't infallible like people try to make them out to be.
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Probably more to this than the Pats just trading Collins to move up in the 3rd round in regards to a compensatory pick. My guess is BB was a tad fed up with him for varying reasons, he saw the chance to trade him to a dumpster fire and received a higher value draft pick than he would have had Collins played out the season as a Patriot. Belichick def. saw this as a win-win; deploy the baggage while securing a valuable pick that is both attractive for the Pats but also as potential trade bait come draft day.
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The Pats do work the hell out of the draft, start with 4 picks end with 12 players.
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(10-31-2016, 11:44 PM)TKUHL Wrote: The Pats do work the hell out of the draft, start with 4 picks end with 12 players.
A few years ago, I would've agreed with this move for the Pats, but their window closes (at least somewhat) when Brady is done...and Brady will be 40 when that 3rd round pick is a rookie. Jamie Collins is a Pro Bowl player now. Unless Collins was hurting them in some way, I just can't see how it's a positive move considering their window.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
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(10-31-2016, 10:53 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: How many two minute temper tantrums you think Adam Jones would have on the field at Foxboro ?
Who knows; Are Gronk and Blount still Pats?
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Ty Law argued that moves like this have cost the pats from having even more championships but in reality actually no not in reality this makes no sense bc they're getting a comp pick for him which is same thing they'd get if they let him walk in the off season it's essentially a 4th rounder. The guys a freak Cleveland is gonna have to pay up but they def won this trade even if he goes off script his talent is undeniable I'm mad we didn't snag him just for this year
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(10-31-2016, 08:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well the trade deadline is tomorrow, so obviously it played a role. Cannot see how this move will do anything to improve the Pat's chances at a Superbowl this year. The better move would have been to trade FOR a player
meh - It sends the message "you play my way or you play for the Browns". That can get your guys playing pretty hard, wouldn't you say?
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Bill is a dictator who can't stand dissent. Yes, greatest coach of all time in terms of success in the NFL, but he's vain. He pushed his 3rd rounder up a few spots and pushed the news cycle forward 5 months. Big deal.
And please God never let me read "The Patriot Way" in jungle noise again.
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(10-31-2016, 08:52 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: By trading him to the worst team in football, he essentially moved that pick up from the tail end of the round, to the beginning.
Why can't the Bengals be savvy like that?
It requires brains and a burning desire to improve. :andy:
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(10-31-2016, 11:36 PM)Sweetness Wrote: Logan Mankins...Chad Johnson...they aren't infallible like people try to make them out to be.
Compared to a great majority of the NFL, including us, they are.
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From what I understand, Collins freelances. Belichick wont have that on his team and judging by his success, rightfully so. Collins isn't the difference maker on that team. Their philosophy is 'team first'. Considering this, NE certainly won in this trade.
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The "freelancing" is probably being exaggerated as a way for Pats homers to rationalize why their Genius just traded off a Pro Bowler to move up in the 3rd round.
Reading comments from Pats homers post-trade, you'd think Collins is trash/cancer. Not buying it. If Collins were such a massive freelancer/cancer/trash, why did Belichick milk him until halfway through the fInal year of his rookie deal?
The more sensible sounding Pats fans had more cautious takes.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
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(10-31-2016, 10:38 PM)Wyche Wrote: That's most likely a very good point. These two teams are polar opposites. You screw up in Foxboro....you hit the bricks. Meltdown that contributes to a 7th consecutive playoff loss....get suspended the first 3 games....only to show up fat and out of shape? Only in Cincy. That shit wouldn't have lasted out of the locker room after the game if it was NE.
Completely false.
See: Albert Haynesworth
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