If Cleveland Changes Coaches And Drafts QB

[kevin]

Then just tear down the stadium....Sell the team....move the team...in short....Forget About It...

Changing coaches and drafting QB every year is why Cleveland Browns stink....

They should keep Hue Jackson .....and draft anyone but a QB.....In fact I would take the #1 pick and trade down for more picks. Rebuild at all positions and take a year off from drafting a QB...Rebuild in the trenches....Treat it like they are a expansion team, because that is how bad they are. They need 10 to 15 draft picks and not one a QB.

[Dill]

(11-11-2016, 08:24 AM)kevin Wrote: Then just tear down the stadium....Sell the team....move the team...in short....Forget About It...

Changing coaches and drafting QB every year is why Cleveland Browns stink....

They should keep Hue Jackson .....and draft anyone but a QB.....In fact I would take the #1 pick and trade down for more picks.  Rebuild at all positions and take a year off from drafting a QB...Rebuild in the trenches....Treat it like they are a expansion team, because that is how bad they are.  They need 10 to 15 draft picks and not one a QB.

Let's see if they follow your advice. Meantime, I'm happy my team has two "wins" already on the schedule every year.

[Shepdawg]

(11-11-2016, 08:24 AM)kevin Wrote: Then just tear down the stadium....Sell the team....move the team...in short....Forget About It...

Changing coaches and drafting QB every year is why Cleveland Browns stink....

They should keep Hue Jackson .....and draft anyone but a QB.....In fact I would take the #1 pick and trade down for more picks.  Rebuild at all positions and take a year off from drafting a QB...Rebuild in the trenches....Treat it like they are a expansion team, because that is how bad they are.  They need 10 to 15 draft picks and not one a QB.

The Browns have 13 picks in this years draft already.  They had 14 picks in the 2016 draft.  I'm not sure trading down for even more picks in this years draft is the answer.  Unless it's trading down just a few spots and getting another first rounder and perhaps more in the 2018 draft as well, I'm not sure it really helps.  It may be time for them to invest in top tier talent.  They also have the Eagles first round pick this year.

[kevin]

(11-12-2016, 12:05 AM)Shepdawg Wrote: The Browns have 13 picks in this years draft already.  They had 14 picks in the 2016 draft.  I'm not sure trading down for even more picks in this years draft is the answer.  Unless it's trading down just a few spots and getting another first rounder and perhaps more in the 2018 draft as well, I'm not sure it really helps.  It may be time for them to invest in top tier talent.  They also have the Eagles first round pick this year.

Yes, the trading down a few spots for more picks and still having 2 first round picks....Then use some of the late picks and trade up a little....The Browns could use a whole bunch of picks in the first 3 rounds, 5 or 6....That would fill some spots ignored as team has drafted QB every year since expansion and has ignored building up the other positions. ......Hue Jackson and their 2016 draft pick QB needs back in 2017 because they just haven't had time and the team stinks.   

[kevin]

I was a Browns fan before there was ever a Cincinnati Bengals.....OK, I'm OLD....but I'll give you an option for Cleveland. Keep Coach Hue Jackson, draft players other than QB for a huge change, and one more thing. Some times NFL teams have one QB too many. Brees went from Chargers to Saints. Alex Smith went from 49ers to Chiefs. ...and now there is Dallas and that rookie is in solid now. Tony Romo ???....Tony Romo and RG3 to compete for Cleveland QB job ??? If they could pull that off, the Browns could focus on other draft needs than QB and give Hue Jackson more talent to work with across the board. ....I'll say this about Romo, if Browns don't go after him, somebody else will. I could see Romo taking a team into play-offs. Denver and New England may want him to replace Peyton Manning or Tom Brady and try for a Super Bowl while they have the coaches and players. ....Like Carson Palmer, Tony Romo is a better than average veteran QB who gives a team a solid veteran QB. He will be starting somewhere in the NFL next season.....Of course Hue Jackson liked 3rd round pick Cody Kessler. Still, if I was the Browns, I might feel better with Romo than all their other QBs.

The Browns change coaches as much as QBs.....They need to give Hue Jackson 4 or 5 years to rebuild that last place team. Just as it took Coach Lewis time to turn last place Bengals into a team to go to 6 play-offs in last 8 years. OK, no play-off wins, but 2005 injury to Carson and 2015 injury to Andy factored into that. Lets see what Raiders do without Carr in play-offs.....The Browns are the Fickle Fan Dream Team as they change coaches and quarterback every year. The result is always last place. Have some confidence in a head coach for a change. You can not tear down and rebuild a team every year and expect nothing but last place....Still, if they could bring in Tony Romo at QB, that could mean wins very fast in 2017 if they get some other players. He is an upgrade over the QBs they have. ....Romo on Denver or New England though could fill the voids left by their Hall of Fame QBs.

People mentioning trading McCarron to Browns...They have RG3 and rookie Kessler....plus, if I'm Bengals, I do NOT trade McCarron to a team in our division and avoid the chance he might beat our brains in the next 10 years, twice a year. If I'm Browns I do not see McCarron as an upgrade over RG3 or Kessler.

Marion Motley, Jim Brown, Leroy Kelly, Greg Pruitt.....If you want to win in Cleveland, you need that Pro Bowl, Hall of Fame Running Back. ....That is what Cleveland needs to be looking for. They need to take a vacation from drafting QBs and firing head coaches. Cleveland of old also fired Paul Brown, Forrest Gregg and Marty Schottenheimer. Fickle Fans may love this stuff, but it keeps Browns floundering off Lake Erie like a dead carp.

I'm a Bengals Fan....but Cleveland is a sleeping giant if somebody with any sense ever starts running that team.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-05-2017, 04:25 AM)kevin Wrote: I'm a Bengals Fan....but Cleveland is a sleeping giant if somebody with any sense ever starts running that team.

Umm. I'd be interested to know how you came to that conclusion. 

[BengalsRocker]

(01-05-2017, 04:25 AM)kevin Wrote:
I'm a Bengals Fan....but Cleveland is a sleeping giant if somebody with any sense ever starts running that team.

(01-05-2017, 04:26 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Umm. I'd be interested to know how you came to that conclusion. 

Especially with what was written in the original post:

"Rebuild at all positions and take a year off from drafting a QB...Rebuild in the trenches....Treat it like they are a expansion team, because that is how bad they are.  They need 10 to 15 draft picks and not one a QB."


Okay...  sleeping giant that needs to rebuild at ALL positions?



That doesn't sound like a sleeping giant.  Not at all.  The furthest from that honestly. LOL.

[kevin]

A sleeping giant in that Cleveland is one hell of a good football city and area around it. Their fan base seems to be second to none. Why even before Paul Brown Cleveland rooted for the Cleveland Rams. The Rams saw the money in going to California before the baseball Dodgers and Giants and basketball Lakers. That's where Paul Brown came in with his Cleveland Browns and in Championship beat those Rams. How great that must have felt to Cleveland fans, to not only win The Super Bowl but to beat the team and owner who just pulled out of your city. Yes, I said Super Bowl because that''s what it was. The last game of the season for the NFL Championship. It was not the NFC. It was the NFL. The NFL Championship. Just as the Super Bowl is the NFL Championship. There were only 4 Super Bowls that were with the AFL. History can not take away from the teams that won it all in the 1920's, 1930's, 1940's, 1950's and 1960's in the NFL, except for 1968 and 1969 season when the AFL Jets and Chiefs won to be Champions. That classic game between Giants and Colts that Johnny Unitas won in overtime was a Super Bowl because it was for the NFL Championship, same as today. So then Paul Brown took his Browns to many Super Bowl NFL Championships. The Browns were a dynasty in the 1950's, still a power in the 1960's and were a power in the 1980's. They are a sleeping giant because these fans fought the NFL and got lawyers to keep the rights to the team name and uniforms. The owner and players left, but unlike all other teams leaving a city, their fans fought and retained the team name and uniforms and did indeed get a franchise back in their city. Now the road has been bumpy with this second coming of the Browns to their city. Too many owner changes, too many GM changes and way too many quarterback changes. The Fans are there. The Dog Pound is there. THE DOG POUND AND THE FANS ARE THE SLEEPING GIANT....THESE ARE GREAT FANS. They travel to road games as much as Steeler fans. ..IF the the right owner ever sticks with a head coach and gives him time to do what needs to be done, this team could be a power again. If this owner is the right owner, he will give Hue Jackson more time to rebuild. When Paul Brown came to Cincinnati he told the fans not to expect winning for at least 5 years because building a team takes time. Hue Jackson will need more than 12 months and he will need more than one draft. This is why you do not fire a head coach every year as Cleveland has been doing under other owners and GMs. This why I'm reluctant to dump Marvin Lewis after he rebuilt the lousy Bengals into a 5 straight play-off season team, just because we had a non play-off season. ....I would love to have the money and be the owner of The Cleveland Browns. They have such a great Fan base and Championship History of names such as Motley, Lou Groza, Jim Brown, Leroy Kelly, those 1980's linebackers and defense they had, and the one Paul Brown considered the best of them all, Quarterback Otto Graham. Paul Brown liked Greg Cook, Ken Anderson, Boomer Esiason, but always said they were never as good as Otto Graham because he just had the timing and control of a game so perfect. .....So I say Cleveland and it's rich history and great fan base over many decades are indeed a sleeping giant. The Fans fought to keep the name and the uniforms. If an owner and coach ever fills those uniforms and brings winning back to the Browns, WATCH OUT. You know the Steelers were awful before they were turned around going into the 1970's. I remember how hard it is to win in THE DOG POUND when they have a good team. They have great fans. This why they are a sleeping giant. If they ever wake up, they could kick the AFC Norths rear ends. If Bengals, and Steelers and Ravens stay tough, there will never be any easy wins in this division. ...and remember, every dog has his day....Their day is coming if an owner, maybe this owner, ever has the guts to stick to something and follow it through. Hue Jackson or any coach could not have came in and won the first year, that is asking the impossible. Given time, Coach Jackson could just turn it around. If he does, it will only make the AFC NORTH that much tougher, no easy games in the AFC NORTH. ....I would love to have the money and be the owner with that fan base built in over 70 some years. Those are some good Ohio football fans. If they build a good team, that is one tough stadium to play on the road in. The great Dallas Cowboy team of late 1960's into 1970's said they hated to play in Cleveland. When they have good teams, The Dog Pound is a hard place for visiting teams.

Now all that said, I'm a Bengals Fan and have been since 1968, but then I could still be a Browns fan also, one AFL, one NFL. In 1970 my choice was easy, The Bengals. I grew to hate the Browns. They were a hard team to play. If the front office of the new Browns ever get it together, the Browns will be a tough team to play again. I would NOT draft quarterback. IF they draft quarterback, I will know they are still going in the wrong direction. The New Browns have used way too many drafts on quarterback from Tim Couch drafting QB almost every year. This came from all the GM and head coaching changes also and even ownership changes. I saw gimpy old Bill Nelson win at QB with the Browns. They need to try to rebuild the tough defense they had, a good O Line to block and a great running back. Then they will be The Browns again, then and only then. It can be done. The need to draft and rebuild that O Line and defense before they do anything else. A good front office could rebuilt this once great dynasty team and give their great fan base a real team. That is not impossible at all. ...but if they fire Hue Jackson and/or draft yet another top pick QB, I will know their front office doesn't have a clue what Cleveland Brown Football is. Having been a Browns Fan up to the 1970 merger, their need is to put everything into having a good defense and a good offensive line, blocking and tackling. After that they can look at the other positions, but first they need blocking and tackling. Drafting a QB is just stupid until you develop an O line and a Defense. It is putting the cart before the horse. If the Browns let Hue Jackson build an O Line and a Defense, watch out. They will be one tough team again, I promise you on that. Plus they are right off Lake Erie in winter time, where you do not build a warm weather team. You build blocking and defense to slug it out as Lake Erie winter fills the stadium making game conditions awful. That is where your Motley, Jim Brown, LeRoy Kelly type is needed, but first you need the O Line and Defense. You get all that and then like Paul Brown you get the QB and Receivers and be a dynasty team. To try to build the team backwards will not work. They need to lay the foundation of the building with O Line and Defense before they can put the roof on with finesse players. The Dog Pound Fans fought to keep the name and uniforms and are there waiting to Rock The House. .....again, why I say a sleeping giant that if it wakes up, they will be anything but an easy win.

They did just draft a WR, and a QB and RG3 may just be the QB that people asked, who would you draft, Luck or RG3. Hue Jackson could just have something in RG3 and this WR Hue just drafted, but Hue likes the QB he drafted also. So go with that for now and putting everything, and I mean everything into Defense and O Line. People that know football like Hue Jackson could really turn this team back into the power house the old Browns were. I think RG3 was poorly coached at Washington, I do believe that. I saw his rookie year as Bengals won that game. The coach had RG3 running all these college wishbone plays, pitching the ball late as Atkins and Dunlap clobbered him. I remembered great linebacker Dick Butkus saying " a wishbone QB can't play in the NFL because on defense this is our paycheck. After a couple of those plays we would put him on a stretcher." .... I will throw the race card here. There was a time there were no black quarterbacks or black coaches. Many whites said blacks could run and were fact but not smart enough to play QB or coach. The NFL seemed to feel the same way. If a black QB did good in college, they tried to make him a WR or a RB. Why Washington drafted RG3 so high in the draft and then used him as a wishbone QB to get killed and injured in the NFL makes no sense to me. Under the right coach RG3 could just show that a black man can throw the ball in the NFL and this thing that blacks have to do it with their feet is all hogwash. I would even let Pryor throw the ball some in Spring and Summer practice. If he can catch and pass, the more he can do only makes a coaches job easier. Now Pryor on the Sanu WR Reverse Pass Option would be a sweet play to have, since he has started games at QB and WR in the NFL. . Treat the black RG3 as any white QB and put the focus on passing, keeping him healthy and pass protection. Why Washington drafted such a talent and then used him as a wishbone late pitch punching bag for defenses just never made any sense. They even used him on the old Statue Of Liberty play at Washington, really setting him up to get blown up by the defense rushing in. You would not ask that of a white QB. RG3 in the right system could be pretty tough. They may already have their QB, and their coach in Hue Jackson. They need to focus on defense and O line, blocking and tackling. That is where winning is built......I will also add that drafting Johnny Football who turned into Johnny Las Vegas Lush set the team back on it's drafting progress. ...This is a franchise that could be turned around and be the power The Browns use to be and why I call them a sleeping giant. Since moving to Baltimore, the new Browns front office and owner changes have just been total confusion. Constant change is NOT good. I see this great fan base as a golden opportunity for real football people to run this team and bring stability and success back. The fans are there, my word, they even fought to keep the name and uniforms. The fans are there, ownership has been the real problem, but this new owner is a football person. He may just be the owner they have needed. The Raiders show that the right owner can bring winning back to a famed historic franchise such as The Cleveland Browns. Being a Bengals Fan, I still feel when Paul Brown died, The Bengals died. Mike Brown made mistake after mistake. He did do one thing right. When no good white coaches wanted to come to Cincinnati Ohio, there had only been a couple black head coaches ever in the NFL. All these good black assistant coaches waiting in limbo due to the old NFL racism. Mike Brown was like Branch Rickey of the Brooklyn Dodgers and he brought in a top black coach. Coach Lewis did indeed take the worst team in football and rebuild them into a team that has gone play-offs 6 out of the last 8 seasons. Cleveland could turn it around also, and if given time, Hue Jackson IS a football person. He does know football. So OK, I threw the race card down on RG3 to Coaches Lewis and Jackson, but to say racism hasn't been a part of the NFL would be a total lie. The very idea the black quarterbacks can't play QB in the NFL, and if they do, they have to be like a running back and that up until just lately teams wouldn't even consider a black head coach is the racism and backwards thinking that still lingers in even todays NFL. Why Washington used the #2 pick in the draft and took RG3, but instead of protecting him like a franchise QB they used him as a human punching bag on constant wishbone plays unheard of using in the NFL. It was just more of the backwards NFL racist thinking that whites throw and blacks run. In the right system, RG3 could show why he was rated right with Andrew Luck in that draft. The man can throw, protect him, block for him and let him throw, teach him to slide to avoid those hits. Hue Jackson may have got the best steal deal right there. He still needs coaching up because Washington didn't use him right. Hey, I said on Bengals Jungle Noise that Cam Newton would be a good draft pick and people on here blasted me for it but soon they loved him. I will say even Cam needs to pass more and run less. The idea is to keep your franchise QB healthy and on the field. This idea that black QBs have to run is the same old, same old. Cam and RG3 should be passers first and do the run and slide second, just like white QBs. Dick Butkus was right, defenses do not let QBs run, run, run in the NFL and they will put running QBs on a stretcher. That little baseball slide is best thing NFL QBs came up with. Now many white fans disagree with me and they love to see black QBs run, but they also complain that they get injured so much. If RG3 is allowed to focus on throwing and let the RBs do the running, he could just be the QB they need. I would feel the same way if my Bengals ever drafted a first round black QB and asked him to run, run, run, because he would always be injured, injured, injured. Sooner or later, the NFL Defense take out that running QB. People that throw John Elway at me, are they kidding. Elway was a passer. He would run now and then and do the baseball slide, but Elway was a passer. In the NFL, the QB has to be a passer. These NFL defensive guys are too big, too fast and working for a paycheck also and always injure these running QBs. Dick Butkus was correct on that.

[Essex Johnson]

Ive been to over 15 stadiums, 5 times to Cleveland, their fans are no different than other fans.. if your team is winning on a consistent basis the fans are engaged, if you are losing they are not.. I went the last two years to browns bengals game at Cleveland, the fans were not engaged. As for history very few fans care about old history, what the Browns did in 1940 or 1950 is not the reason fans get excited about their team.. Right now I will take the Jungle anyday over the Dog Pound...

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-07-2017, 11:47 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Ive been to over 15 stadiums, 5 times to Cleveland, their fans are no different than other fans.. if your team is winning on a consistent basis the fans are engaged, if you are losing they are not.. I went the last two years to browns bengals game at Cleveland, the fans were not engaged.  As for history  very few fans care about old history, what the Browns did in 1940 or 1950 is not the reason fans get excited about their team.. Right now I will take the Jungle anyday over the Dog Pound...

Troof.

Any team will have a base of "diehard fans" during the hard times. A lengthy period of hard times will make that base seem larger than it is. It doesn't take many.

[kevin]

but I'll stand by it that Cleveland Fans are a great Ohio football city....They did fight to keep their team name and uniforms for when they got another NFL franchise. No other city has done THAT when a team leaves...The Jungle was pretty awful during the losing years from 1991 to 2002. I thought Bengal Fans showed less of themselves complaining about the 2009 season because we ONLY beat the AFC North teams and we ran the ball too much in making the play-offs. Season ticket sales were way off after that play-off season until Terrell Owens was picked up. Fans thinking TO and Ocho meant Super Bowl saw a 4 win season. Bengals just had 5 straight play-off seasons, yet the fans constantly complain about Andy Dalton and Coach Lewis. Now if Cleveland had just had 5 straight play-off seasons, The Dog Pound would be Rocking. .....I am also not talking just the 1950s and 1960s but the 1980's. Don't forget what a great defense they had in the 80's and how they were in 3 AFC Championship Games and in play-offs 5 times in the 80's. ....So yes, I love my Bengals. I don't always love The Jungle or the fickle fans, but I love The Bengals. Not so much from 1991 to 2002, but I stayed a fan. ....I stand by my saying Cleveland has great fans and I think you under estimate that great grandpa went to Browns games, grandpa went to Browns games, dad went to Browns games and now sons go to Browns games. Their is a family loyalty that made them the only fans to retain the rights to team name and team uniform. No, they have gone over and beyond the average fans, but they have been rewarded with poor ownership and constant last place losing. This would be a GREAT CITY for an owner that knows what the heck he is doing. I think the Browns could be on the way back to winning if they just stick with Coach Jackson a few years. If they get an O Line and a Defense, they will be tough. They have to get away from firing the GM, the head coach and the QB every year. Fickle Fans may love constant change, but it is a blueprint for failure. ....I really feel that Coach Jackson and RG3 and the WR and QB they drafted last year and Pryor are good enough to stick with and to throw all they have into getting players on O Line and Defense. If they do that, Browns could go back to the play-offs fast as the also historic Raiders just did coming back from losing. .......I will be rooting for my Bengals, but this is NFC NORTH CHAT, not JUNGLE NOISE, and I'm saying the Browns do not have to stay in last place forever, and I think they are a sleeping giant that may just wake up and be an AFC North power again. .....I think it is a great opportunity for owners and coaches that know something about the players it takes to win in Cleveland, off Lake Erie, in the rain and snow...And I'll tell you something else. Pittsburg and Baltimore have been the powers in the AFC North. The day could come where you have Cincinnati and Cleveland ahead of them and The Battle For Ohio determines who wins the AFC North. People that say the AFC North is weak are crazy. Baltimore, Cincinnati, Cleveland and Pittsburg are 4 of the best football areas in the USA and all 4 teams could be playing very good football, maybe as soon as next season. I say the AFC North is a great division of football. This is one smash mouth, hard hitting division with more than it's share of NFL Championships. This is why Cleveland needs to put everything into O Line and Defense, but I feel the same way about my Bengals. To win in this tough division you better block and tackle at Super Bowl level. The Steelers don't play touch football.....and on a positive note about The Jungle, The Jungle Fans were awesome in the 1980's. Since 2011 I've seen THE JUNGLE ROAR AGAIN. Cincinnati when THE JUNGLE is roaring and fans dressed like Tarzan or Fred Flintstone or Tigers or The Thing is one Wild and Hard place for teams to play. This is why I'm always against someone trying to start a fan boycott and ruin The Jungle.

[magikod]

give us a 2nd and aj mccarron is yours. qb problem solved for the browns and it helps the bengals.

[*wildcats forever*]

Ray Horton is out, and Gregg Williams is in: http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/cleveland-browns-news-2017-offseason-changes-defensive-coordinator-gregg-williams-010717

[HarleyDog]

Back in my days overseas, Cleveland was a pretty good team. I enjoyed watching them in the playoffs as it gave me a link to my home state and gave me 3hrs of feeling like home again. I can't bring myself to hate this team like I do our other division rivals. Not sure if its because of memories or because I feel sorry for them. They have not made any good decisions since moving the team to Baltimore and then getting their team back. I'm not a fan by any means - however I don't pray for them to spontaneously combust into flames coming onto the field like I do the stoolers and Ravens.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-07-2017, 07:56 PM)kevin Wrote: but I'll stand by it that Cleveland Fans are a great Ohio football city....They did fight to keep their team name and uniforms for when they got another NFL franchise. No other city has done THAT when a team leaves...The Jungle was pretty awful during the losing years from 1991 to 2002.  I thought Bengal Fans showed less of themselves complaining about the 2009 season because we ONLY beat the AFC North teams and we ran the ball too much in making the play-offs. Season ticket sales were way off after that play-off season until Terrell Owens was picked up. Fans thinking TO and Ocho meant Super Bowl saw a 4 win season. Bengals just had 5 straight play-off seasons, yet the fans constantly complain about Andy Dalton and Coach Lewis.  Now if Cleveland had just had 5 straight play-off seasons, The Dog Pound would be Rocking.  .....I am also not talking just the 1950s and 1960s but the 1980's. Don't forget what a great defense they had in the 80's and how they were in 3 AFC Championship Games and in play-offs 5 times in the 80's. ....So yes, I love my Bengals. I don't always love The Jungle or the fickle fans, but I love The Bengals. Not so much from 1991 to 2002, but I stayed a fan. ....I stand by my saying Cleveland has great fans and I think you under estimate that great grandpa went to Browns games, grandpa went to Browns games, dad went to Browns games and now sons go to Browns games. Their is a family loyalty that made them the only fans to retain the rights to team name and team uniform.  No, they have gone over and beyond the average fans, but they have been rewarded with poor ownership and constant last place losing.  This would be a GREAT CITY for an owner that knows what the heck he is doing.  I think the Browns could be on the way back to winning if they just stick with Coach Jackson a few years.  If they get an O Line and a Defense, they will be tough.  They have to get away from firing the GM, the head coach and the QB every year.  Fickle Fans may love constant change, but it is a blueprint for failure. ....I really feel that Coach Jackson and RG3 and the WR and QB they drafted last year and Pryor are good enough to stick with and to throw all they have into getting players on O Line and Defense. If they do that, Browns could go back to the play-offs fast as the also historic Raiders just did coming back from losing. .......I will be rooting for my Bengals, but this is NFC NORTH CHAT, not JUNGLE NOISE, and I'm saying the Browns do not have to stay in last place forever, and I think they are a sleeping giant that may just wake up and be an AFC North power again. .....I think it is a great opportunity for owners and coaches that know something about the players it takes to win in Cleveland, off Lake Erie, in the rain and snow...And I'll tell you something else. Pittsburg and Baltimore have been the powers in the AFC North.  The day could come where you have Cincinnati and Cleveland ahead of them and The Battle For Ohio determines who wins the AFC North. People that say the AFC North is weak are crazy.  Baltimore, Cincinnati, Cleveland and Pittsburg are 4 of the best football areas in the USA and all 4 teams could be playing very good football, maybe as soon as next season. I say the AFC North is a great division of football.  This is one smash mouth, hard hitting division with more than it's share of NFL Championships.  This is why Cleveland needs to put everything into O Line and Defense, but I feel the same way about my Bengals. To win in this tough division you better block and tackle at Super Bowl level. The Steelers don't play touch football.....and on a positive note about The Jungle, The Jungle Fans were awesome in the 1980's. Since 2011 I've seen THE JUNGLE ROAR AGAIN.  Cincinnati when THE JUNGLE is roaring and fans dressed like Tarzan or Fred Flintstone or Tigers or The Thing is one Wild and Hard place for teams to play.  This is why I'm always against someone trying to start a fan boycott and ruin The Jungle.

So yes the Bengals were bad in the 90s and attendance showed it.. but guess what the Browns have been bad also since 2009 the Browns have averaged 25th in attendance by percentage of their stadium.. again if the Browns fans were so loyal as you say.. no way even with a bad team would they be so low... My simple point is.. win on a consistent basis and people come and support your team , lose and they do not.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-08-2017, 04:32 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: So yes the Bengals were bad in the 90s and attendance showed it.. but guess what the Browns have been bad also since 2009 the Browns have averaged 25th in attendance by percentage of their stadium.. again if the Browns fans were so loyal as you say.. no way even with a bad team would they be so low... My simple point is.. win on a consistent basis and people come and support your team , lose and they do not.

Yep.