Im not sure how you can justify NOT trading Mccarron at this point

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-21-2016, 12:29 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: The guy isn't going to be starting for us (face it, he's not) and he could possibly return a first or second round draft pick. This team needs all the talent it can get.

If the Bengals don't try to trade him then they are fools.

If a contending team like, say, the Atlanta Falcons, lost their QB and wanted to make a huge deal, sure.  I could see him going in the middle of the season in such a scenario.  

However, the chance that a team like that would shell out a nice draft pick knowing they already have a good QB for the next year that is just injured makes it less likely.  

I don't know the status of the contracts for the starters in these cities, but here is a short list of teams that could be interested:

NY Jets
Miami Dolphins
San Diego Chargers 
Jacksonville Jaguars
Arizona Cardinals
Denver Broncos- Make much more sense than the aging Romo

[Shake n Blake]

(11-21-2016, 04:27 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: 1. AJMC came off the bench and threw for 280 in his first real NFL action when he got sacked 3 times. And had a QB rating against the Steelers that was better than all but one of Daltons game against the Steelers. In the games against the same opponents AJMC did better and we had a better chance of winning in the games against Denver and Pitt last year when he was starting compared to the games Dalton started against them this year. 

2. Except when the game was on the line with barely any time left and he led us on a scoring drive to take the lead in shitty weather conditions.

3. Dalton costs 15.7mil next year. AJMC costs 735k. 

4. I'm not anti-Dalton. I like him. He is a decent NFL QB. I don't think he is irreplaceable. New coach usually means new starting QB. I think the logical choice is the guy on the last year of his rookie contract who looks like he could be a starting NFL QB. 

1. You and I both know that was likely an anomaly. The Steelers weren't prepped for a guy coming off the bench and knew nothing of his.tendencies. You did forget to mention the 2 INTs (including a pick 6). Maybe the passer rating was better, but Dalton has definitely played more than 1 better game against the Steelers. And again, we all saw how he looked when everyone was prepared. 

2. If McC hadn't played like utter dog crap for 3.5 quarters, we wouldn't have needed a "clutch" drive. That's the Tim Tebow definition of "clutch". The guy had an awful game...period, and no the weather wasn't horrible, and nobody would accept the excuse about a bad Dalton performance.

3. What Au165 said. If McCarron had even a decent season, he'd wind up being more expensive than Dalton, who is a fantastic bargain.

4. Apologies for assuming you are anti-Dalton. Anyone is technically replaceable, but Dalton is almost certainly a top 10 QB overall. People will always try to point out new guys that are better (Kaep and Bortles are recent examples) and many of those guys wind up being bad players over the long haul. 

Dalton is not as replaceable as you think, and I have a strong feeling that people would regret pining for McCarron if he's ever given a serious shot. McCarron is a 5th round pick who has done zilch other than being a famous college player with a hot wife. People just so badly want to believe that we have some miracle sitting the bench that they let it cloud their thinking.

[*Nately120*]

(11-21-2016, 03:35 PM)Fresno B Wrote: No. Bench or trade Dalton and rebuild around AJM. That's the most logical explanation.

The only way we build around AJM is if Dalton demands a trade after Marvin gets another extension.

[*Nately120*]

(11-21-2016, 08:26 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: People just so badly want to believe that we have some miracle sitting the bench that they let it cloud their thinking.

Agreed.  If tossing QBs on the field for the sake of "Seeing what we have in _____" once the season is shot worked, the Browns would have discovered at least 3 Tom Brady's by now. 

[Brimey]

We have a lot of holes that need patched. If we could get a 2nd or 3rd and a 4th, and then maybe a conditional pick the next year I'd be pleased

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-21-2016, 03:30 PM)mikehayman Wrote: You pro-AJM guys seriously crack me up. A FIRST rounder for a weak-armed guy that played mediocre at best against terrible teams last year?!

What are you guys smoking and where did you get it?

Sorry, but this is just way off base.  

He took Denver, the eventual Super Bowl Champion, to OT and lost IN DENVER.  Another game where if Nugent hits a chip shot FG before the half, the Bengals go in up 17-0 and likely win, but I digress.

I am not a "start AJ over Andy" guy at all, but he could go for a second rounder, easily.  

Look back at Kirk Cousins.  There are a lot of similarities, and Cousins is making the Redskins look like geniuses after giving up the world to get RGKnee, they are in the playoff hunt.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-21-2016, 04:46 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: We missed our chance to trade him. His value is down and will be WAY down next season.

Here's some QBs next season that are going to be on the trading block or free agents:
Kirk Cousins
Tony Romo
Sam Bradford
Jay Cutler
Jimmy Garropolo

They all have higher trade value than McCarron. Plus, you have other guys that are going into their last year of their contract.

We missed our chance at a higher pick. We could still trade him, but unsure due to some teams higher up needing QB in a weak class.

If I put my GM hat on, based on all the parameters:  Age, cost, ability, blah, blah, blah...

There is no way in hell I would take Romo, Bradford, Cutler, or even Garropolo over McCarron, and Cousins will get paid in DC. (You like that!!!)

Only Romo to win-now Denver makes sense, but it really puts them right back in the cash-strapped world of having Manning again.

I'm not sure the contract status of their current QBs, but here are a few realistic spots where McCarron could end up.

NY Jets
Cleveland Browns
Miami Dolphins
Houston Texans (pretty sure I heard they can get out of Brock's deal at two years)
SF 49ers
AZ Cardinals
SD Chargers
New Orleans Saints
Chicago Bears
Denver Broncos
LA Rams

There will be suitors and there will be competition among them.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-21-2016, 10:52 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The only way we build around AJM is if Dalton demands a trade after Marvin gets another extension.

It actually crossed my mind to think about offering Dalton to the Texans for Osweiler (I think he sucks) and JJ Watt.  I know, I know...the Texans would never trade their cover boy.  It would have to be a stud to take Osweiler off their hands, and to give up Dalton.  I think the Texans could be pretty damn good if they had Dalton.  We know what they are with Watt:  a team that struggles to win even when the opposition is held to 10 points. 

[Bengalbug]

(11-21-2016, 01:26 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I don't.

If you put AJ Green on a team with Goff, Wentz, or Lynch...they're a lot better. Plus, it's not like McCarron was passing for 300+ yards in his starts here.

Plus, those guys are 22 and Wentz is 23. McCarron is 26.

Those guys are also new to their system. McCarron has been in this system for a few years and had the chance to learn it.

I think those guys all have stronger arms and more physical talent. You're talking about guys picked at the top half of the draft versus what a 6th Round pick in McCarron?

Lynch already has his AJ in demaryius and then he has Emmanuel sanders to boot, so you can't make that comparison, 

[WeezyBengal]

(11-21-2016, 08:26 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. You and I both know that was likely an anomaly. The Steelers weren't prepped for a guy coming off the bench and knew nothing of his.tendencies. You did forget to mention the 2 INTs (including a pick 6). Maybe the passer rating was better, but Dalton has definitely played more than 1 better game against the Steelers. And again, we all saw how he looked when everyone was prepared. 

2. If McC hadn't played like utter dog crap for 3.5 quarters, we wouldn't have needed a "clutch" drive. That's the Tim Tebow definition of "clutch". The guy had an awful game...period, and no the weather wasn't horrible, and nobody would accept the excuse about a bad Dalton performance.

3. What Au165 said. If McCarron had even a decent season, he'd wind up being more expensive than Dalton, who is a fantastic bargain.

4. Apologies for assuming you are anti-Dalton. Anyone is technically replaceable, but Dalton is almost certainly a top 10 QB overall. People will always try to point out new guys that are better (Kaep and Bortles are recent examples) and many of those guys wind up being bad players over the long haul. 

Dalton is not as replaceable as you think, and I have a strong feeling that people would regret pining for McCarron if he's ever given a serious shot. McCarron is a 5th round pick who has done zilch other than being a famous college player with a hot wife. People just so badly want to believe that we have some miracle sitting the bench that they let it cloud their thinking.

You keep saying this but it doesnt make sense. Why does it have to be an anomaly? So they guy plays well against the Steelers and we are just going to discredit it because the Steelers "werent prepared for him"? Bull crap man. Mccarrons game is very similar to Dalton's. There wasn't anything the Steelers had to "prepare for". If anything, you should be crediting Mccarron for coming into that game off the bench and playing well, not discrediting him. 

[Bengalbug]

(11-22-2016, 10:19 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: If I put my GM hat on, based on all the parameters:  Age, cost, ability, blah, blah, blah...

There is no way in hell I would take Romo, Bradford, Cutler, or even Garropolo over McCarron, and Cousins will get paid in DC. (You like that!!!)

Only Romo to win-now Denver makes sense, but it really puts them right back in the cash-strapped world of having Manning again.

I'm not sure the contract status of their current QBs, but here are a few realistic spots where McCarron could end up.

NY Jets
Cleveland Browns
Miami Dolphins
Houston Texans (pretty sure I heard they can get out of Brock's deal at two years)
SF 49ers
AZ Cardinals
SD Chargers
New Orleans Saints
Chicago Bears
Denver Broncos
LA Rams

There will be suitors and there will be competition among them.  

Chargers?  For real?  Philip rivers is a stud.  If they didn't consistently have injur problems they would be perennial playoff team 

[Shake n Blake]

(11-22-2016, 10:26 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: You keep saying this but it doesnt make sense. Why does it have to be an anomaly? So they guy plays well against the Steelers and we are just going to discredit it because the Steelers "werent prepared for him"? Bull crap man. Mccarrons game is very similar to Dalton's. There wasn't anything the Steelers had to "prepare for". If anything, you should be crediting Mccarron for coming into that game off the bench and playing well, not discrediting him. 

What's bull crap is for you to sit there and pretend you've never heard of a rookie QB coming out hot until teams get some tape on him. I was impressed that McCarron came out firing off the bench, but I am able to put it in perspective. It was nice to see the backup do that, but it wasn't this breakthrough amazing performance you're painting it to be. If Dalton throws 2 INTs and a freaking pick 6, not a soul on here would be singing his praises. Mac moved the ball but directly helped the Steelers put 14 points on the board in a game decided by 13.

...and yet again, we all saw how he did when everyone was prepared.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-22-2016, 01:09 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: What's bull crap is for you to sit there and pretend you've never heard of a rookie QB coming out hot until teams get some tape on him. I was impressed that McCarron came out firing off the bench, but I am able to put it in perspective. It was nice to see the backup do that, but it wasn't this breakthrough amazing performance you're painting it to be. If Dalton throws 2 INTs and a freaking pick 6, not a soul on here would be singing his praises. Mac moved the ball but directly helped the Steelers put 14 points on the board in a game decided by 13.

...and yet again, we all saw how he did when everyone was prepared.

And he had the luxury of sitting and learning the system for multiple years before he played.

I think DC's could gameplan him fairly easily as he doesn't have a strong arm. They'd likely load up the box, double-team AJ, and let McCarron have to beat them with his arm.

How some people compare him to Bradford or a guy like Goff or Wentz...he just doesn't have the arm strength of those guys. They have way more physical skills. That's how you go at the top of the 1st Round as opposed to the 5th or 6th Round.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-22-2016, 03:16 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: And he had the luxury of sitting and learning the system for multiple years before he played.

I think DC's could gameplan him fairly easily as he doesn't have a strong arm. They'd likely load up the box, double-team AJ, and let McCarron have to beat them with his arm.

How some people compare him to Bradford or a guy like Goff or Wentz...he just doesn't have the arm strength of those guys. They have way more physical skills. That's how you go at the top of the 1st Round as opposed to the 5th or 6th Round.

Hell, let's start him now.  See what he's got.  That should solve the riddle once and for all.  The season is in the shitter, what have we got to lose?  Maybe the next Brady is on the bench in Cincy......then again....maybe not.  I say settle it once and for all.

[wolfkaosaun]

(11-21-2016, 06:29 PM)J24 Wrote: I am touching CK, Romo has a bad back no way I touch him unless I am in Superbowl or bust mode, Cutler maybe but then again he has a lot of issues, Bradford I would take  but again doubt he would be available , Jimmy G I would take but I think there trading Brady(Which makes him #1 on the Qb list). If I were a coach/GM I wouldn't be that keen on any of them but then again I am not a GM. Why I think AJ would be very Valuable to teams is 1.) He's only 27, 2)Has a cheap contract , and 3.) Is a somewhat talented Qb who has played well in both preseason and regular season when given the chance. Also factor in a bad QB draft class, a not so impressive free agent class, and franchises do stupid stuff for Qbs then there is a chance we hit a home run with a trade.

Romo is going to be a guy that someone that has a championship type team with no QB will trade for. So Denver will most likely be the #1 ideal spot for both candidates.

Those are good points, yes. But by next year he will be 27 with little to no real playing time.

Jimmy is younger (25, will be 26 in November of next year)and also has a low contract.

Plus, Jimmy has done pretty well in the games he's played. People also forget that he played this year without Gronk as well.

They aren't the best players by any means. But if you don't have a QB and don't see one in the draft, one of these guys is moving.

I just believe his trade value was much greater last offseason than this one upcoming

[corpjet]

Lets be honest the NFL is hard up for quality starting QB's, they are at a premium.

I would have to think he's traded before the draft and at the least we will get a 3rd Round Pick.

[samhain]

I think they'll be lucky to get a 3rd rounder for him. I'd take it in a heartbeat, though. If I were a quarterback-needy team, I'd rather trade a 3rd for a cheap roll of the dice like McCarron than sign a player like Bradford, Cutler, or Romo to a sizeable deal. All of those guys either suck or are major injury liabilities.

With AJ, a team would get a guy with some NFL experience for a full year without committing a huge sum of cash right away. If he tanks, then no big deal because he's getting paid 5th round money and is owed nothing after 2015. A team isn't stuck with him.

[WeezyBengal]

(11-22-2016, 01:09 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: What's bull crap is for you to sit there and pretend you've never heard of a rookie QB coming out hot until teams get some tape on him. I was impressed that McCarron came out firing off the bench, but I am able to put it in perspective. It was nice to see the backup do that, but it wasn't this breakthrough amazing performance you're painting it to be. If Dalton throws 2 INTs and a freaking pick 6, not a soul on here would be singing his praises. Mac moved the ball but directly helped the Steelers put 14 points on the board in a game decided by 13.

...and yet again, we all saw how he did when everyone was prepared.

Man, you legitimately dont like Mccarron. What did he do? Sleep with your girl or something? Jeesh.

[wolfkaosaun]

(11-22-2016, 10:19 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: If I put my GM hat on, based on all the parameters:  Age, cost, ability, blah, blah, blah...

There is no way in hell I would take Romo, Bradford, Cutler, or even Garropolo over McCarron, and Cousins will get paid in DC. (You like that!!!)

Only Romo to win-now Denver makes sense, but it really puts them right back in the cash-strapped world of having Manning again.

I'm not sure the contract status of their current QBs, but here are a few realistic spots where McCarron could end up.

NY Jets
Cleveland Browns
Miami Dolphins
Houston Texans (pretty sure I heard they can get out of Brock's deal at two years)
SF 49ers
AZ Cardinals
SD Chargers
New Orleans Saints
Chicago Bears
Denver Broncos
LA Rams

There will be suitors and there will be competition among them.  

Jets drafted Hack. So they'd want to give him a try before trading for McCarron.
Browns, maybe. But they also really like Mitch Trubisky. Who would actually fit that scheme well and helps Hue.
Dolphins have Tannehill
Texans aren't backing out of Brock's deal just yet. They're still leading their division and gave him a ton of money
49ers is possible. But do you think McCarron fits Chip's scheme?
Cardinals actually might be a good place for him. Could see that, haven't even thought of them.
Rivers is signed until 2019. He's still playing well. They're not trading for someone, especially when McCarron hits free agency in 2018.
See above but with Brees signed until 2018. So they could gamble and wait for McCarron to hit free agency. Plus, they drafted Garrett Grayson in the 3rd round and was rumored that they would try him out after Brees.
Bears is also a possibility. Cutler is going to be gone.
Broncos might, but they also drafted Lynch in the 2nd round. Plus, Romo makes way more sense.
Rams drafted Goff. But, their scheme works. Low accuracy throws with little to no deep throws.

There were no calls for McCarron last offseason. There probably won't be this offseason.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-22-2016, 04:48 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Jets drafted Hack. So they'd want to give him a try before trading for McCarron.
Browns, maybe. But they also really like Mitch Trubisky. Who would actually fit that scheme well and helps Hue.
Dolphins have Tannehill
Texans aren't backing out of Brock's deal just yet. They're still leading their division and gave him a ton of money
49ers is possible. But do you think McCarron fits Chip's scheme?
Cardinals actually might be a good place for him. Could see that, haven't even thought of them.
Rivers is signed until 2019. He's still playing well. They're not trading for someone, especially when McCarron hits free agency in 2018.
See above but with Brees signed until 2018. So they could gamble and wait for McCarron to hit free agency. Plus, they drafted Garrett Grayson in the 3rd round and was rumored that they would try him out after Brees.
Bears is also a possibility. Cutler is going to be gone.
Broncos might, but they also drafted Lynch in the 2nd round. Plus, Romo makes way more sense.
Rams drafted Goff. But, their scheme works. Low accuracy throws with little to no deep throws.

There were no calls for McCarron last offseason. There probably won't be this offseason.

Do you see McCarron being a guy that could turn around a Bears or Browns team with basically little talent on offense?

I don't even know if we could classify him as a game manager...because he's going to make mistakes because he has very little starting experience.