Worst possible salt in wound scenario.

[samhain]

So, let's just say this fan base gets what it wants for Christmas a week or two late and Marvin gets canned after the season. We'll all reflect and eventually speculate on a new coach, then we'll get one. Maybe Guenther, maybe Joseph, maybe even an outsider like Patricia or McDaniels. The new guy will probably have to inherit 80% of Marv's staff. He might get to sign a few ancient, affordable, jizzmopper outside FA's to build some hype and fill some holes. We'll eat this shit up and project the Dalton/Green era alive and well.

Meanwhile, in another beleaguered NFL town, some other poor bastard gets canned too. Maybe Fox or Kelly or Bradley. Their FO takes a peek at who's out there and eventually the conversation comes to Marvin. They look at the literal miracle of his consistency and success in this NFL wasteland. Inexplicably to many here, he gets the job.

Then a funny thing happens. The GM/owner allows Giggles to hire his own staff. An entire staff of whoever the hell Mavin can get to show up. Maybe a Jim Schwartz, maybe a Mike Smith, perhaps a Brad Childress. Totally up to him.

Then one day, Marv sheepishly walks into the GM's office and stares at the floor. "Umm, sir, I was just, errr," "What's that Marv? You say you want to sign a couple of outside FA's that might help us?" "Well yeah, sir, I mean…." "Say no more Marv, we'll get them in here for a look and do what we have to. We have the payroll" And then there it is. Right before Marv's eyes. A and B grade outside free agents at his disposal along with the prospect of filling in holes with more in future seasons.

A year or two later, Marv, as he is known to be capable of, has built a strong roster. He has his handpicked staff. He has outside free agents supplementing the process. He's winning games. He's winning PLAYOFF games.

Meanwhile, here in Cincy Paulie G is roaming the sidelines getting housed by Pittsburgh, just as Marv did. He has a roster full of underperforming clown ***** just like Marv did, because they're under contract for two more seasons. He has the same holdovers form the same stale staff filling out 80% of his group. He has mgmt telling fans we're on the Pats/Steelers plan thus can't have access to any A or B grade outside help. He has the same group of underdeveloped corners not playing for 2 or 3 seasons as he inexplicably drafts more early while the rest of the roster stagnates.

How would it make us feel to learn that it was never Marvin? That with a little more help and a conventional approach from ownership, that maybe he could have gotten over that hump? I think it would be a knife in the gut. It would be a stark reminder that this ownership group isn't normal or like any other. Marvin is just the sacrificial goat of the pigs sitting in the executive offices.

I'm not saying he's free of blame. I just have a feeling that the problem runs much deeper than Lewis, and that he succeeded in spite of it.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-30-2016, 04:49 PM)samhain Wrote: So, let's just say this fan base gets what it wants for Christmas a week or two late and Marvin gets canned after the season.  We'll all reflect and eventually speculate on a new coach, then we'll get one.  Maybe Guenther, maybe Joseph, maybe even an outsider like Patricia or McDaniels.  The new guy will probably have to inherit 80% of Marv's staff.  He might get to sign a few ancient, affordable, jizzmopper outside FA's to build some hype and fill some holes.  We'll eat this shit up and project the Dalton/Green era alive and well.

Meanwhile, in another beleaguered NFL town, some other poor bastard gets canned too.  Maybe Fox or Kelly or Bradley.  Their FO takes a peek at who's out there and eventually the conversation comes to Marvin.  They look at the literal miracle of his consistency and success in this NFL wasteland.  Inexplicably to many here, he gets the job.

Then a funny thing happens.  The GM/owner allows Giggles to hire his own staff.  An entire staff of whoever the hell Mavin can get to show up.  Maybe a Jim Schwartz, maybe a Mike Smith, perhaps a Brad Childress.  Totally up to him.  

Then one day, Marv sheepishly walks into the GM's office and stares at the floor.  "Umm, sir, I was just, errr,"  "What's that Marv?  You say you want to sign a couple of outside FA's that might help us?"  "Well yeah, sir, I mean…."  "Say no more Marv, we'll get them in here for a look and do what we have to.  We have the payroll"  And then there it is.  Right before Marv's eyes.  A and B grade outside free agents at his disposal along with the prospect of filling in holes with more in future seasons.

A year or two later, Marv, as he is known to be capable of, has built a strong roster.  He has his handpicked staff.  He has outside free agents supplementing the process.  He's winning games.  He's winning PLAYOFF games.  

Meanwhile, here in Cincy Paulie G is roaming the sidelines getting housed by Pittsburgh, just as Marv did.  He has a roster full of underperforming clown ***** just like Marv did, because they're under contract for two more seasons.  He has the same holdovers form the same stale staff filling out 80% of his group.  He has mgmt telling fans we're on the Pats/Steelers plan thus can't have access to any A or B grade outside help.   He has the same group of underdeveloped corners not playing for 2 or 3 seasons as he inexplicably drafts more early while the rest of the roster stagnates.

How would it make us feel to learn that it was never Marvin?  That with a little more help and a conventional approach from ownership, that maybe he could have gotten over that hump?  I think it would be a knife in the gut.  It would be a stark reminder that this ownership group isn't normal or like any other.  Marvin is just the sacrificial goat of the pigs sitting in the executive offices.

I'm not saying he's free of blame.  I just have a feeling that the problem runs much deeper than Lewis, and that he succeeded in spite of it.

Boy, that would be a real kick in the junk wouldn't it?

[Pat5775]

While that wouldn't shock me that much, I doubt it would happen. Staff and players aside, his overall coaching demeanor on game day is horrible. Also, (allegedly) Katie and Marvin have been in complete control of the team for a few years now. What if it's Marvin who continues to start Ogbeuhi and Bodine? What if it's Marvin who continues to trot Nugent out there? What if it's Marvin who wants to keep Paul Alexander on his staff? What if its Marvin promotes his coordinators from within?

If Marvin is truly calling all of the shots, I think everything I listed is more likely than Marvin finding playoff success elsewhere...

Now if it's Katie making all of these asinine decisions, well... We are in a HUGE world of trouble. That means we get a carbon copy of Mike Brown in the form of his daughter once he passes... For several more generations... See if you can stomach that thought  :sick:

[*rfaulk34*]

It would be about what i'd expect, as a fan of the Cincinnati Bengals.

[Tlawsonmariat82]

The problem always has and always will be Management with this team. we're quick to say fire Marvin,but the truth is we only won a grand total of 55 games from 1991 until Marvin was hired in 2003.

[Pat5775]

(12-02-2016, 10:44 AM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: The problem always has and always will be Management with this team. we're quick to say fire Marvin,but the truth is we only won a grand total of 55 games from 1991 until Marvin was hired in 2003.

How many coaches did we have between 1991-2003? We struck shit with the likes of Shula, Coslet and Lebeau (am I forgetting anyone)? And we didn't exactly strike gold with Marvin... More like fools gold.

However, our golden coach very well could have been Zimmer, Gruden, Hue or maybe Vance Joseph... I don't even want to mention a certain coach we let get away in the 80's. 

[Tlawsonmariat82]

(12-02-2016, 03:57 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: How many coaches did we have between 1991-2003? We struck shit with the likes of Shula, Coslet and Lebeau (am I forgetting anyone)? And we didn't exactly strike gold with Marvin... More like fools gold.

However, our golden coach very well could have been Zimmer, Gruden, Hue or maybe Vance Joseph... I don't even want to mention a certain coach we let get away in the 80's. 

What has mike zimmer done that marvin hasn't?It amazes me how on these boards people hate marvin but loves zimmer.These playoff loses was mostly because of zimmers defenses playing bad.

Grudens offenses in the playoffs were equally as horrible as zimmers defenses 

[BengalChris]

(11-30-2016, 04:49 PM)samhain Wrote: So, let's just say this fan base gets what it wants for Christmas a week or two late and Marvin gets canned after the season.  We'll all reflect and eventually speculate on a new coach, then we'll get one.  Maybe Guenther, maybe Joseph, maybe even an outsider like Patricia or McDaniels.  The new guy will probably have to inherit 80% of Marv's staff.  He might get to sign a few ancient, affordable, jizzmopper outside FA's to build some hype and fill some holes.  We'll eat this shit up and project the Dalton/Green era alive and well.

Meanwhile, in another beleaguered NFL town, some other poor bastard gets canned too.  Maybe Fox or Kelly or Bradley.  Their FO takes a peek at who's out there and eventually the conversation comes to Marvin.  They look at the literal miracle of his consistency and success in this NFL wasteland.  Inexplicably to many here, he gets the job.

Then a funny thing happens.  The GM/owner allows Giggles to hire his own staff.  An entire staff of whoever the hell Mavin can get to show up.  Maybe a Jim Schwartz, maybe a Mike Smith, perhaps a Brad Childress.  Totally up to him.  

Then one day, Marv sheepishly walks into the GM's office and stares at the floor.  "Umm, sir, I was just, errr,"  "What's that Marv?  You say you want to sign a couple of outside FA's that might help us?"  "Well yeah, sir, I mean…."  "Say no more Marv, we'll get them in here for a look and do what we have to.  We have the payroll"  And then there it is.  Right before Marv's eyes.  A and B grade outside free agents at his disposal along with the prospect of filling in holes with more in future seasons.

A year or two later, Marv, as he is known to be capable of, has built a strong roster.  He has his handpicked staff.  He has outside free agents supplementing the process.  He's winning games.  He's winning PLAYOFF games.  

Meanwhile, here in Cincy Paulie G is roaming the sidelines getting housed by Pittsburgh, just as Marv did.  He has a roster full of underperforming clown ***** just like Marv did, because they're under contract for two more seasons.  He has the same holdovers form the same stale staff filling out 80% of his group.  He has mgmt telling fans we're on the Pats/Steelers plan thus can't have access to any A or B grade outside help.   He has the same group of underdeveloped corners not playing for 2 or 3 seasons as he inexplicably drafts more early while the rest of the roster stagnates.

How would it make us feel to learn that it was never Marvin?  That with a little more help and a conventional approach from ownership, that maybe he could have gotten over that hump?  I think it would be a knife in the gut.  It would be a stark reminder that this ownership group isn't normal or like any other.  Marvin is just the sacrificial goat of the pigs sitting in the executive offices.

I'm not saying he's free of blame.  I just have a feeling that the problem runs much deeper than Lewis, and that he succeeded in spite of it.

That would confirm that Mikey "boy" Brown is the worst owner in all of professional sports, everywhere on Earth, and that moniker was given to him in the 90's does still hold true to form.

Of course, Mikey mike just hang it up at the same time and wonder on off into a retirement home somewhere and things will change or maybe not so much.

[BengalChris]

(12-02-2016, 05:12 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: What has mike zimmer done that marvin hasn't?It amazes me how on these boards people hate marvin but loves zimmer.These playoff loses was mostly because of zimmers defenses playing bad.

Grudens offenses in the playoffs were equally as horrible as zimmers defenses 

Not really. In the 2012 game against Houston our defense out scored our offense.

And our offense has not had a single good playoff game. Dalton only has 1 TD pass in 4 playoff games, 6 INTs. Gio fumbled it away in the red zone against San Diego we fell apart after that with something like 3 consecutive drives turning it overs.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

The ultimate 2016 salt in the wound scenario would involve losing to the Cleveland Browns -- and the coaching staff is retained and extended.

[TKUHL]

(12-02-2016, 05:12 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: What has mike zimmer done that marvin hasn't?It amazes me how on these boards people hate marvin but loves zimmer.These playoff loses was mostly because of zimmers defenses playing bad.

Grudens offenses in the playoffs were equally as horrible as zimmers defenses 

LOL I know, lots of people on here was calling for Zimmers head and Jay and Hue.

[Shake n Blake]

You know, Samhain, this seems like a plausible scenario as far as who Mike will hire and what that coach will have to work with.

The only problem I've always had with this line of thinking is that Marv had plenty of teams that were talented, had good coordinators and yet he still lost in the playoffs. So the Mike Brown factor isn't enough to stop Marv from going 11-5, but it does keep Marv from winning playoff games?

I'm not going to deny that Marv has had things to work through though. A grade B free agent or two probably could've helped...but why have so many of our good players up and disappeared in the playoffs? Andy, AJ (to an extent), Hill, Gio, Atkins, Dunlap, Palmer, Chad, TJ, Rudi, etc etc. Gotta be a coaching/preparation issue.

[StoneTheCrow]

This is not even a scenario. It's complete fantasy make-believe. On account of, you know, Marvin being horrible and all.

[*jason*]

What if they can Marvin and bring in Jeff Fisher?

Ugh...

[Derrick]

(12-02-2016, 10:44 AM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: The problem always has and always will be Management with this team. we're quick to say fire Marvin, but the truth is we only won a grand total of 55 games from 1991 until Marvin was hired in 2003.

It is the total dysfunction of the organization's philosophy. And it is in their DNA. It will never change by any appreciable measure. Repeat Never! It affects all decisions past, present and future.

[Gohards]

Very very good story. It really painted a picture for me and honestly, i could see it happening. It could very well happen. But just a couple problems:

1. I dont think Marvin is going to coach again. I can bet, next year, no matter what the season ends like (from sb win to 0-16) hes going to retire. And yes hes going to retire a bengal, meaning he will be our coach next year. Lets face it

While he is not Tom coughlin old, he is i want to say coming up on 60. Being a coach is extremely hard work and long hours.

2. I dont think pauly g will be promoted. He defense this year is horrible. We rank at the bottom 10 of most major defensive categories. How do you promote that???

People that act like we've let so much coaching talent go:

What exactly has Hue, or Gruden done since theyve left? Or zimmer?? Neither one of them have sb rings, and obv hue isnt getting one this year.

Since Zimmer and Gruden left. Combined record:
43-43-1
0 playoff wins

Bengals record:
25-15-1
0 playoff wins

Which one u picking?

If you throw in Hues 0-12 record and it looks even worse, obv.

Ps. Whoever changed the layout for this site for iPhones, but it is completely garbage. Please, change it back ASAP

[samhain]

(12-02-2016, 11:15 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Not really. In the 2012 game against Houston our defense out scored our offense.

And our offense has not had a single good playoff game. Dalton only has 1 TD pass in 4 playoff games, 6 INTs. Gio fumbled it away in the red zone against San Diego we fell apart after that with something like 3 consecutive drives turning it overs.

Yeah, and the good old "hey! let's outsmart them by not throwing to AJ Green for two quarters" strategy.  Impossibly moronic.

[samhain]

(12-03-2016, 07:26 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: You know, Samhain, this seems like a plausible scenario as far as who Mike will hire and what that coach will have to work with.

The only problem I've always had with this line of thinking is that Marv had plenty of teams that were talented, had good coordinators and yet he still lost in the playoffs. So the Mike Brown factor isn't enough to stop Marv from going 11-5, but it does keep Marv from winning playoff games?

I'm not going to deny that Marv has had things to work through though. A grade B free agent or two probably could've helped...but why have so many of our good players up and disappeared in the playoffs? Andy, AJ (to an extent), Hill, Gio, Atkins, Dunlap, Palmer, Chad, TJ, Rudi, etc etc. Gotta be a coaching/preparation issue.

You may indeed be right, but there's no denying that Marv had a mountain to climb when he got here.  Who knows how he really felt about the staff he inherited?  Maybe he'd have replaced Brat when he got the job.  Maybe he wanted a new o-line coach.  There are concessions that he made.  

Free agency will always be the question that bugs the hell out of me.  We all know damn well that the old line about FA's not helping is a crock of stinking feces.  Denver was chocked with them when they won.  The Pats had a huge one in their last title run.  We heard all game vs the Giants how they spent 200mil on the defense this past offseason and were reaping the rewards.  Baltimore had a few as well.  

I get tired of seeing this team spin it's wheels in FA.  We're reaping the rewards of their lies right now.  We've seen two rebuilds sputter out into mediocrity.  We have no idea how these teams would have done with A or B free agents, because we've never seen one.  Odom was the closest we got.  Yeah, the roster was strong over the last 3 or 4 seasons.  How would it have looked with a stud run stuffing DT instead of old, ineffective Peko?  How would things have gone with a younger dans by instead of miscast Harrison?  Why not maximize opportunity while the iron is hot?

Yes, this team did a nice job in the draft for a few years.  Unfortunately so did Denver, Seattle, and the NE.  Those teams also worked outside FA to supplement those strong drafts, and they won titles.  We did nothing and got nothing.  It's like bringing a knife to a gunfight, and it's the Bengal Way.  I just can't help but wonder what a key player or two would have made the last 5 years look like and how it would change our perception of Marv.     

[samhain]

(12-03-2016, 07:26 PM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: This is not even a scenario. It's complete fantasy make-believe. On account of, you know, Marvin being horrible and all.

Fair enough, but is Gary Kubiak some world-beating HOF coach?  He was a washout that was brought back to the team he started with as an assistant.  He won because his team went all in.  When has this organization ever gone all in for Marvin?

[samhain]

(12-03-2016, 11:10 PM)Gohards Wrote: Very very good story. It really painted a picture for me and honestly, i could see it happening. It could very well happen. But just a couple problems:

1. I dont think Marvin is going to coach again. I can bet, next year, no matter what the season ends like (from sb win to 0-16) hes going to retire. And yes hes going to retire a bengal, meaning he will be our coach next year. Lets face it

While he is not Tom coughlin old, he is i want to say coming up on 60. Being a coach is extremely hard work and long hours.

2. I dont think pauly g will be promoted. He defense this year is horrible. We rank at the bottom 10 of most major defensive categories. How do you promote that???

People that act like we've let so much coaching talent go:

What exactly has Hue, or Gruden done since theyve left? Or zimmer?? Neither one of them have sb rings, and obv hue isnt getting one this year.

Since Zimmer and Gruden left. Combined record:
43-43-1
0 playoff wins

Bengals record:
25-15-1
0 playoff wins

Which one u picking?

If you throw in Hues 0-12 record and it looks even worse, obv.

Ps. Whoever changed the layout for this site for iPhones, but it is completely garbage. Please, change it back ASAP

I think his most likely path to a HC job is getting a DC job somewhere and hopping back up to a HC job in a year or two.