Burkhead

[Stormborn]

(12-06-2016, 01:55 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Hill had 28 yards after contact on Sunday.

so about 1.28 per carry

Jeremy Hill has averaged 1.9 or less yards after contact in seven of his last eight games, not what you want out of your “power back.”

— PFF Fantasy Football (@PFF_Fantasy) December 6, 2016

Quote:But no, he dances and doesn't find holes  

why can't he and a couple pieces on the line be trash?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Burkhead has been our best back the last couple weeks no question.

Hill has been a disappointment every game this year besides the Cleveland game IMHO. Edit: the Denver game he was good too.

Don't know what happened to him since his rookie year...

[Benton]

Hey, I've always advocated for more time for Burkhead. Not because he's that great, but because I'm a dork and I like calling him Rushasaurus Rex.

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-06-2016, 03:39 PM)Benton Wrote: Hey, I've always advocated for more time for Burkhead. Not because he's that great, but because I'm a dork and I like calling him Rushasaurus Rex.

I just call him sexy.  I started yelling at the game:  "We need more Cody Core and we need more Sexy Rexy!"

By the end of the game, it was shortened to:  "We need more Sexy Core!!!"

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(12-06-2016, 02:54 PM)Stormborn Wrote: so about 1.28 per carry

Jeremy Hill has averaged 1.9 or less yards after contact in seven of his last eight games, not what you want out of your “power back.”

— PFF Fantasy Football (@PFF_Fantasy) December 6, 2016

why can't he and a couple pieces on the line be trash?

Thanks for dismissing the problem with a faulty one!

[Shake n Blake]

(12-06-2016, 02:54 PM)Stormborn Wrote: so about 1.28 per carry

Jeremy Hill has averaged 1.9 or less yards after contact in seven of his last eight games, not what you want out of your “power back.”

— PFF Fantasy Football (@PFF_Fantasy) December 6, 2016

why can't he and a couple pieces on the line be trash?

Because Hill has been more effective running the football than Gio this year? Unless you also think Gio is trash.

Look, I don't think Hill is all that, but people sure are piling on and it seems a little unfair considering the circumstances. Again, if Hill is trash, Gio and his 3.7 ypc must be as well.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-06-2016, 05:22 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Because Hill has been more effective running the football than Gio this year? Unless you also think Gio is trash.

Look, I don't think Hill is all that, but people sure are piling on and it seems a little unfair considering the circumstances. Again, if Hill is trash, Gio and his 3.7 ypc must be as well.

I just had such high expectations for both of these guys. Sure the O-line hasn't blocked too well for either of
them but they have had their struggles all on their own this season. Crazy that i cannot remember a game
where both of them were at their best.

Burkhead on the other hand has made a few nice plays the last few weeks excluding the fumble.

[Stormborn]

(12-06-2016, 05:22 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Because Hill has been more effective running the football than Gio this year? Unless you also think Gio is trash.

Look, I don't think Hill is all that, but people sure are piling on and it seems a little unfair considering the circumstances. Again, if Hill is trash, Gio and his 3.7 ypc must be as well.

nah

i know some people hate to exclude obvious outliers, but what has hill done this year outside of 9 runs against the league's second worst run defense? watch him run man, he can't create anything on his own.

it's undeniable that the amount of push the line gets is abysmal and it has effected gio and jeremy, but gio is the obvious better runner of the ball, and everything that makes a running back a running back.

the only thing hill does well is run through gaping holes with no second gear and look big.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-06-2016, 05:51 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I just had such high expectations for both of these guys. Sure the O-line hasn't blocked too well for either of
them but they have had their struggles all on their own this season. Crazy that i cannot remember a game
where both of them were at their best.

Burkhead on the other hand has made a few nice plays the last few weeks excluding the fumble.

I guess I just look at our history with RBs and running the football over the last 10 years, and it makes me less inclined to blame the RBs. People blamed Law Firm, CedBen, Scott, Perry, etc and now they want to blame Hill (and maybe Gio).  Outside of 2014, we've ranked 20th or worse in YPC every year since 2006. Real success has been few and far between. So instead of looking at a laundry list of RBs, I wonder if it's the blocking/scheme.

I guess it's possible that all those RBs just sucked, but I definitely question the blocking as well. 

[Shake n Blake]

(12-06-2016, 06:13 PM)Stormborn Wrote: nah

i know some people hate to exclude obvious outliers, but what has hill done this year outside of 9 runs against the league's second worst run defense? watch him run man, he can't create anything on his own.

it's undeniable that the amount of push the line gets is abysmal and it has effected gio and jeremy, but gio is the obvious better runner of the ball, and everything that makes a running back a running back.

the only thing hill does well is run through gaping holes with no second gear and look big.

I'm looking over this post and I don't see any explanation for why Gio is averaging 3.7 ypc (to Hill's 4.0) this year. Sure Gio is better at catching and blocking (although I think Hill is solid in these categories), but we're talking about toting the rock.

Hill ain't getting it done, but neither was Gio, who was stuffed on a regular all year. People keep talking like Gio somehow looked better but the production hasn't reflected that at all. I'm not hating on Gio so much as using him to make a point. I just think the problem is (and has been for years) the oline. 

4 OC's, 3 RB coaches, a mountain of RBs, and we get the same mediocre results year after year. To me it's like blaming players for stinking in the playoffs under Marvin Lewis.

[Stormborn]

(12-06-2016, 06:33 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'm looking over this post and I don't see any explanation for why Gio is averaging 3.7 ypc (to Hill's 4.0) this year. Sure Gio is better at catching and blocking (although I think Hill is solid in these categories), but we're talking about toting the rock.

Hill ain't getting it done, but neither was Gio, who was stuffed on a regular all year. People keep talking like Gio somehow looked better but the production hasn't reflected that at all. I'm not hating on Gio so much as using him to make a point. I just think the problem is (and has been for years) the oline. 

4 OC's, 3 RB coaches, a mountain of RBs, and we get the same mediocre results year after year. To me it's like blaming players for stinking in the playoffs under Marvin Lewis.

yeah, he is a better runner on film for sure, there's no run that jeremy can make that gio can't, it's not the same going the other way. 

you have an above average runner in gio and a below average runner in jeremy running behind a below average line. stats for both aren't going to look pretty because neither are transcendent talents, and jeremy barely edges out gio in ypc bc out that browns game.

i don't know what to say besides what i've already, gio looks much better running ball and finishing runs because he just is the better guy. you can just tell watching the games, nevertheless rewatching their runs on gamepass.

[Shepdawg]

I have no problem with giving Burkhead more touches. I think the offense can do a lot of the same things with Burkhead that they do with Gio. My biggest issue with Hill isn't so much as his overall results. In my opinion it's his running style that I find most frustrating. He's 6'1 and 235-240 pounds and runs more like he's 5'9 190 pounds. For someone his size, he does have quick feet, and thus will from time to time break one. This raises his average YPC. But he tries to be a shifty RB like Gio. IMO Gio actually runs more like a big back than Hill does.

I wish Hill ran more like Earl Campbell or Corey Dillon and just ran over folks early and often, even if he thinks he can make them miss. Break their will and desire to want to try to tackle him later in the game. It appears for example a 6'0 195 pound defensive back is just as aggressive going after Hill in the 3rd and 4th quarters as he is in the 1st because he knows he can be the aggressor. Hill will likely try to shake him, not try to truck him. One of the reasons teams have a bigger back is to wear those guys down physically over the course of the game. Have them making "matador" type tackles later in the game. I don't think the Bengals are getting that from Hill, regardless if he does break a few runs here and there. I think he would actually break more of those longer runs by running over a few more people a little more often.

If anyone has the Eagles game on video, watch the play right before Hill's TD. It starts to the left and is defended well. There is no hole. Hill cuts it back to the right and has a straight line to the end zone. One guy there to beat. Either the OLB or a DB. Hill tried to juke back inside and gets tackled. I would have loved to see Hill lower his shoulder and attack the defender. REGARDLESS of if he scored or not.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-06-2016, 06:59 PM)Stormborn Wrote: yeah, he is a better runner on film for sure, there's no run that jeremy can make that gio can't, it's not the same going the other way. 

you have an above average runner in gio and a below average runner in jeremy running behind a below average line. stats for both aren't going to look pretty because neither are transcendent talents, and jeremy barely edges out gio in ypc bc out that browns game.

i don't know what to say besides what i've already, gio looks much better running ball and finishing runs because he just is the better guy. you can just tell watching the games, nevertheless rewatching their runs on gamepass.

Yeah but Gio played the Browns too, right? Why didn't he go all beast mode on them too? Even if you take out that Browns game for both, Hill is averaging a meager 3.2 and Gio averaged a meager 3.5...and that's after these last 2 abysmal games for Hill. 

You watch the games, I watch the games, I guess we just see it differently. You see a big difference between the two. I don't. I see two RB's smashing into brick walls and getting grabbed in the backfield way too often. It's something that's been going on for so long that I think a lot of Bengals fans forget what good run blocking looks like.

Maybe some of it is on them, but I have a strong feeling that suddenly both would look much better with proper blocking. Suddenly Gio wouldn't be getting stuffed at the LOS constantly. Suddenly, Hill's "dancing" would be viewed as "patience".

[Shake n Blake]

(12-06-2016, 08:32 PM)Shepdawg Wrote: I have no problem with giving Burkhead more touches. I think the offense can do a lot of the same things with Burkhead that they do with Gio. My biggest issue with Hill isn't so much as his overall results. In my opinion it's his running style that I find most frustrating. He's 6'1 and 235-240 pounds and runs more like he's 5'9 190 pounds. For someone his size, he does have quick feet, and thus will from time to time break one. This raises his average YPC. But he tries to be a shifty RB like Gio. IMO Gio actually runs more like a big back than Hill does.

I wish Hill ran more like Earl Campbell or Corey Dillon and just ran over folks early and often, even if he thinks he can make them miss. Break their will and desire to want to try to tackle him later in the game. It appears for example a 6'0 195 pound defensive back is just as aggressive going after Hill in the 3rd and 4th quarters as he is in the 1st because he knows he can be the aggressor. Hill will likely try to shake him, not try to truck him. One of the reasons teams have a bigger back is to wear those guys down physically over the course of the game. Have them making "matador" type tackles later in the game. I don't think the Bengals are getting that from Hill, regardless if he does break a few runs here and there. I think he would actually break more of those longer runs by running over a few more people a little more often.

If anyone has the Eagles game on video, watch the play right before Hill's TD. It starts to the left and is defended well. There is no hole. Hill cuts it back to the right and has a straight line to the end zone. One guy there to beat. Either the OLB or a DB. Hill tried to juke back inside and gets tackled. I would have loved to see Hill lower his shoulder and attack the defender. REGARDLESS of if he scored or not.

This I think we can all agree on. I wish Hill would figure out that he's got a size advantage on most DBs.

[NATI BENGALS]

Marvin is pure genius. Who cares that it took 3.5 years and a major injury for Burkhead to get some touches. Marvin knows exactly how to properly utilize personnel.

While Burkhead has looked more than capable I am even more amazed at how good Peerman has been. Marvin made the call to end the season of our healthy first round pick so Peerman could come make his huge impact. No way we could have gotten that amount of contribution from anywhere but trusty old Peerman. Definitely worth wasting a year of our first round pick.

[Sled21]

(12-06-2016, 10:12 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Marvin is pure genius. Who cares that it took 3.5 years and a major injury for Burkhead to get some touches. Marvin knows exactly how to properly utilize personnel.

While Burkhead has looked more than capable I am even more amazed at how good Peerman has been. Marvin made the call to end the season of our healthy first round pick so Peerman could come make his huge impact. No way we could have gotten that amount of contribution from anywhere but trusty old Peerman. Definitely worth wasting a year of our first round pick.

This again..... because we all know how a rookie with no NFL snaps and not even a training camp is going to come in and play corner in this league and set the world on fire....

[Earendil]

I think the terrible blocking the last two years has given Hill PTSD.  It's as if he's expecting someone to come barreling in unblocked on every play, so he's dancing around and not hitting the holes hard like he should.

[Daddy-O]

(12-04-2016, 07:27 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Facts:

The oline sucks, but looked better today without Ogbeuhi.

Hill has struggled behind said horrendous oline and still struggled today.

Hill has been battling injuries all season long which may be a big reason why he is struggling.

Hill has lost his vision. He had great vision and a good ability to break tackles his rookie year (see games against Jacksonville and Denver) but has clearly lost it now. He needs to get it back next season but I'm not sure he can.

Burkhead has great vision. He sees the hole, hits it hard without hesitation, and can make defenders miss.

Hill no longer looks explosive.

[NATI BENGALS]

(12-07-2016, 09:40 AM)Sled21 Wrote: This again..... because we all know how a rookie with no NFL snaps and not even a training camp is going to come in and play corner in this league and set the world on fire....

Right. I was an idiot for wanting our first round pick to be involved with our football team in football activities. 

I severely underestimated the kind of impact Peerman would have. He has been keeping the bench so warm its crazy. Its almost too warm. Luckily we have that extra long snapper and the 3rd QB on the 53 man roster to really monitor proper bench warmth. If only our 1st round pick knew how to warm a bench. Marvin is teaching him but it takes awhile.

Just getting our first round pick practice reps would have been more valuable than what Peerman has done. Marvin has done a lot of stupid shit. But activating a 30 year old career special teamer who will be a free agent over the teams first round pick is easily one of the dumbest.

[bengalsturntup926]

(12-07-2016, 04:41 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Right. I was an idiot for wanting our first round pick to be involved with our football team in football activities. 

I severely underestimated the kind of impact Peerman would have. He has been keeping the bench so warm its crazy. Its almost too warm. Luckily we have that extra long snapper and the 3rd QB on the 53 man roster to really monitor proper bench warmth. If only our 1st round pick knew how to warm a bench. Marvin is teaching him but it takes awhile.

Just getting our first round pick practice reps would have been more valuable than what Peerman has done. Marvin has done a lot of stupid shit. But activating a 30 year old career special teamer who will be a free agent over the teams first round pick is easily one of the dumbest.

Lol i hate marvins dumb ass