2 first round draft picks? Possibly.

[Jpoore]

So I have posted this in other threads but wanted it all in one place. I am going off the assumption we will be picking in the top 10 and we will move down to 16 for a second and third. Then we will use our newly acquired 3rd and a 5th round compensatory pick to move into middle 20s.

At number 16 would love pat elflien out of Ohio State. Here are some of his accomplishments, but most of the individual awards came this year, his first year at center. 3 time all big ten and all American first team on both, Remington award winner, outland finalist, rimington-pace lineman of the year, and a 2 time "iron buckeye" for unquestioned physical training, dedication, determination, discipline, toughness, and leadership.remember his first year at center before this was right guard for 3 Years. Here was one scouts opinion of him before he switched to center to win all these awards.

Elflein is a glass-eater. He plays nasty and generates great drive in the run game. Elflein utilizes his strong upper body to cling to the defender and push him out of the play. He plays with a good base and stays balanced in pass protection. He’s smart and plays with likeable awareness. Elflein’s eyes are impressive – can sense pressure and picks up blitzes well.
Senses pressure and picks up blitzes really well. Sounds like what were missing at center.

With the mid 20s pick is lb raquan McMillan. Has 260 tacked in 2 years as starter with 16 tfl, 5 sacks, an interception, and a fumble recovery. He has amazing instincts and a knack at play recognition. Here's what a scout had to say about him before this year with only 1 season as full time starter.


At a rock-solid 6-2, 240 pounds, McMillan possesses prototypical size for inside linebacker, including a stout core and thick lower half, which help him anchor against blockers. Unlike many of the undersized 'mike backers in today's college football who are reliant on avoiding would-be blockers, McMillan already shows NFL-caliber strength, taking on and shedding opponents efficiently with active, powerful hands, lateral agility and balance. He is a powerful tackler, often stopping ball-carriers dead in their tracks. This is not to say that McMillan is simply an old-school battering ram. In fact, he shows impressive diagnosis skills to read the play, including the spatial awareness to "slip" blocks simply by taking efficient angles to the ball to beat blockers to the action. McMillan does not possess the same degree of athleticism as his former teammate, Lee (who was clocked at an eye-popping 4.47 seconds in the 40-yard dash at 232 pounds), but he is a coordinated athlete whose quick, choppy steps help him beat backs to the corner and make plays in coverage. McMillan's dedication to his craft has impressed the Ohio State coaching staff, who already named the third-year junior a co-captain for this season.

There are my 2 top players that would Adress our 2 top needs. I will post a video in comments of McMillan highlights as freshman and sophomore but not this year.

[Jpoore]

https://youtu.be/M2YOAbcC5Iw

[StoneTheCrow]

If we move down to 16 which punt gunner will still be there?

I would love to have McMillan. He's named after a member of the Wu-Tang Clan. That's awesome.

[Jpoore]

(12-10-2016, 10:05 AM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: If we move down to 16 which punt gunner will still be there?

I would love to have McMillan. He's named after a member of the Wu-Tang Clan. That's awesome.

hell probably go undrafted but a really nice pickup COULD and I stress could be another osu player in dontrel Wilson.hes a pint returner/hback right now but dude runs a 4.26. His speed alone if he could tackle would pick him up as soon as draft is over...... IF he can tackle. And yeah I love McMillan and would make a great Lb core of vigil burfict and McMillan 

[PikesPeakUC]

Feels like a reach for both, but that could just be me.

[Hammerstripes]

IF you want to get Elflein, then move up in the 2nd round to get him.

IF we are drafting in the top 10, we need to use that to get an impact player. As others have said, we have plenty of picks this year and the comp picks can be traded. There's no reason to move down unless we get a king's ransom to do so.

[Jpoore]

(12-12-2016, 10:35 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: IF you want to get Elflein, then move up in the 2nd round to get him.

IF we are drafting in the top 10, we need to use that to get an impact player.  As others have said, we have plenty of picks this year and the comp picks can be traded.  There's no reason to move down unless we get a king's ransom to do so.

Well right now we're at 8 do u really want another corner? Bc all mock drafts have us taking that. And as stated he's a mid first round pick. No way in hell he makes it second round. And for someone like the dolphins may give us a kings ransom. 

[Bengal Dude]

(12-13-2016, 02:56 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Well right now we're at 8 do u really want another corner? Bc all mock drafts have us taking that. And as stated he's a mid first round pick. No way in hell he makes it second round. And for someone like the dolphins may give us a kings ransom. 

Actually, we're at 12 right now.

[Whatever]

(12-13-2016, 02:56 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Well right now we're at 8 do u really want another corner? Bc all mock drafts have us taking that. And as stated he's a mid first round pick. No way in hell he makes it second round. And for someone like the dolphins may give us a kings ransom. 

I haven't seen Eiflein go in the first round in any mocks on the draft sites I follow.  The only scouting service I've even heard of giving him a 1st round grade is McShay.  He is mostly seen as a 2nd round talent.  He has tangible physical drawbacks with his short arms and below average athleticism.  Other C's drafted in the mid to late 1st like Alex Mack and Maurkice Pouncey do not have those kinds of physical weaknesses.  When you pull the trigger on an interor OL player that early, they need to be a perennial Pro Bowler/All Pro type, which Elflein simply lacks the physical tools to develop into.

[Jpoore]

(12-13-2016, 08:38 PM)Whatever Wrote: I haven't seen Eiflein go in the first round in any mocks on the draft sites I follow.  The only scouting service I've even heard of giving him a 1st round grade is McShay.  He is mostly seen as a 2nd round talent.  He has tangible physical drawbacks with his short arms and below average athleticism.  Other C's drafted in the mid to late 1st like Alex Mack and Maurkice Pouncey do not have those kinds of physical weaknesses.  When you pull the trigger on an interor OL player that early, they need to be a perennial Pro Bowler/All Pro type, which Elflein simply lacks the physical tools to develop into.

Yeah those are drawbacks but I believe he will be a couple time pro bowler/all pro in the league. He has drawbacks which he makes up for in technique  and aggressive run blocking at the point of attack. Extremely unlikely to get beat in pass protection bc he study's so much tape. It's the same reason Whit is still playing at an all pro level. Technique and form make up for lack of athleticism. And there's a reason mccshay who is one of the top 2 draft analysts has him in first round. and for all the people who wine and cry about our run blocking, seems like a no brainer to me 

[Jpoore]

(12-13-2016, 05:42 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Actually, we're at 12 right now.

well at the time of his mock we were at 8 taking lattinore for oau

[TKUHL]

I thought Comp pick couldnt be traded.

[Whatever]

(12-14-2016, 04:57 AM)TKUHLh Wrote: I thought Comp pick couldnt be traded.

They can trade comp picks starting this year, but it wasn't allowed previously.

[Whatever]

(12-13-2016, 10:49 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Yeah those are drawbacks but I believe he will be a couple time pro bowler/all pro in the league. He has drawbacks which he makes up for in technique  and aggressive run blocking at the point of attack. Extremely unlikely to get beat in pass protection bc he study's so much tape. It's the same reason Whit is still playing at an all pro level. Technique and form make up for lack of athleticism. And there's a reason mccshay who is one of the top 2 draft analysts has him in first round. and for all the people who wine and cry about our run blocking, seems like a no brainer to me 

Whit has great techniques, but also has great strength and arm length to keep defenders from getting into his body where they have leverage.  Guys with short arms are susceptible to bull rushes in pass pro.

[Hammerstripes]

(12-13-2016, 02:56 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Well right now we're at 8 do u really want another corner? Bc all mock drafts have us taking that. And as stated he's a mid first round pick. No way in hell he makes it second round. And for someone like the dolphins may give us a kings ransom. 

No, I'm pretty sure that this is the year that we don't take a corner in the first round.

All of the draft sites that I have looked at have Elflien as a mid-2nd rounder.  

And, no, there probably isn't a team that is going to give up those picks to move up to #8.  

I'd rather stay put, take an elite defender or even move up a few spots and insure that we get the guy that we want.

[Jpoore]

(12-14-2016, 01:49 PM)Whatever Wrote: Whit has great techniques, but also has great strength and arm length to keep defenders from getting into his body where they have leverage.  Guys with short arms are susceptible to bull rushes in pass pro.

See now that's interesting bc from what I have read from multiple draft sites, he gets his hands on you and he is like velcro. He is elite with bull rush, but not as good with spin moves and things like that. He is Billings type strong but I guess we will find out. Was just on 2 draft sites that last week had him as mid second round, now they have him at 20. To each his own but I think he will be elite on the pro level.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-14-2016, 01:49 PM)Whatever Wrote: Whit has great techniques, but also has great strength and arm length to keep defenders from getting into his body where they have leverage.  Guys with short arms are susceptible to bull rushes in pass pro.

An Offensive Tackle needs long arms, interior linemen not so much.  Same with athleticism.  At Center, a man needs to be judged on how well he can move another large man off of the ball, and how well he can anchor his ass when the big man is charging at him.  Elfline does well at both of those things.

In this day and age, they don't just hand out the Remington award or name a player to 1st team All-American without looking to see how well he translates to play at the next level.

[Whatever]

(12-14-2016, 07:30 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: An Offensive Tackle needs long arms, interior linemen not so much.  Same with athleticism.  At Center, a man needs to be judged on how well he can move another large man off of the ball, and how well he can anchor his ass when the big man is charging at him.  Elfline does well at both of those things.

In this day and age, they don't just hand out the Remington award or name a player to 1st team All-American without looking to see how well he translates to play at the next level.

The Rimington Trophy is a poor indicator of NFL success.  Of the past 10 Rimington Award winners, 7 are out of the league(Dan Mozes, Jonathan Luigs, Jake Kirkpatrick, David Molk, Barrett Jones, Bryan Stork, Reese Dismukes).  AQ Shipley has been a journeyman backup his entire career.  Maurkice Pouncey is the only Pro Bowl/All Pro caliber guy, and Ryan Kelly is starting as a rookie.  Picking a C based on the Rimington is like picking a QB because he won the Heisman.  It is purely a measure of what they did in college and by no means an endorsement of NFL worthiness.

Athleticism matters when he's asked to pull, make reach blocks, or block guys at the second level.  Short arms makes it harder to anchor, because longer armed DT's can extend into his chest and get him moving backwards.  They aren't AS important for a C, but they're still weaknesses, and weaknesses that top C prospects don't have.

[Burma]

(12-13-2016, 10:49 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Yeah those are drawbacks but I believe he will be a couple time pro bowler/all pro in the league. He has drawbacks which he makes up for in technique  and aggressive run blocking at the point of attack. Extremely unlikely to get beat in pass protection bc he study's so much tape. It's the same reason Whit is still playing at an all pro level. Technique and form make up for lack of athleticism. And there's a reason mccshay who is one of the top 2 draft analysts has him in first round. and for all the people who wine and cry about our run blocking, seems like a no brainer to me 

He got beat twice for sacks against Michigan, the best defensive line he faced so far. 

Frankly the whole idea of the Bengals taking Elflein in the first is non sense and would be a ridiculously bone headed move .  Bodine is not going anywhere and TJ Johnson is there if the team wants to take a 2nd look.  And reaching for the 2nd best center in a terrible center draft make no sense at all.

[Jpoore]

(12-14-2016, 10:56 PM)Burma Wrote: He got beat twice for sacks against Michigan, the best defensive line he faced so far. 

Frankly the whole idea of the Bengals taking Elflein in the first is non sense and would be a ridiculously bone headed move .  Bodine is not going anywhere and TJ Johnson is there if the team wants to take a 2nd look.  And reaching for the 2nd best center in a terrible center draft make no sense at all.

he is the best center in the draft posic game just isn't as good as elflien and imo nowhere close. And yeah he got beat while he is the center of a oline with 3 freshman on it. Was he getting beat or was he trying to make up for his olines mistakes? and once bodine got beat by a backpedaling Browns defender for a sack he was dead to me and Johnson is garbage. I thing he will be a 3-4 time pro bowler.