Let's say the Bengals make some changes (Long)

[Burma]

Lately I haven’t felt like writing up lengthy and researched posts.  My interest level has been low and honestly, who really cares?  It doesn’t change minds or prompt the team to make changes.  However, I am bored.

So let’s assume that the front office decides to make some changes and brings in a new coach.  What ammo will the team have to make the select changes that get the team over the hump without resorting to a fire sale? Currently over the cap is projecting the Bengals to have 4 comp picks; 2 in the 4th and 2 in the 6th.  With these being tradeable this upcoming draft that provides a bit of help for mid round moves.  But what options are available that would allow the team to make some significant moves without mortgaging the future.

Option 1:  Trade AJ McCarron

The question here is if the short term value the McCarron provides as a backup for the last season of his contract outweighs the potential value gained from trading him.  To me that is a simple decision, why let him walk and get nothing more than a potential comp pick when you can trade him now and choose what you get in return?  So then, who wants him? Right now the league is still processing the fallout of the recent back up QB craze.  The results have not been good. The Bengals are simply not going to get a 1st or 2nd for McCarron. The ideal trade partner is a team with multiple high mid round picks, a need at QB, and a 1st or 2nd round draft pick that is too high to spend on the current QB crop.

The team that is in this “Goldilocks” position are the Bears.  They currently have the 5th pick in the 3rd round and 4th rounds, and also the 13th pick in the 4th round as well as a clear need at QB.   Getting the 5th pick in the 3rd and 4th round for McCarron is probably the best you can expect since the backup QB bubble burst.
Why would the Bears do this? They have several pressing needs besides QB and a draft slot that probably won’t be worth using on the QBs available.  Matt Barkley might be serviceable, but a modest investment in QB upgrade could be exactly what they need.

Option 2:  Trade Vontaze Burfict

Why would we trade the best LB in the NFL and the heart of our defense?  Simple.  2017 is his last year under contract, and would only have a $775k cap hit.  Assuming he gets a contract worthy of the best LB in the league we’re looking at 5 year/65 mill contract (using Luke Kuechly’s contract as a base).  This contract would come at the same time the Bengals have to deal with new contracts for Darqueze Dennard, Will Clarke, Jeremy Hill, and Tyler Eifert. Not to mention Andrew Whitworth, Kevin Zeitler, and Dre Kirkpatrick’s deals from this off season. Not everyone can get paid.  And quite frankly the new coach may not want to deal with the headaches that come from one of Marvin’s projects. Also, the Bengals are drafting in a spot where there are 3 very good prospects that could step in and fill Burfict’s gap; Reuben Foster and Zach Cunningham in the 1st, and Jarrad Davis in the 2nd.

So, who would be willing to trade for Burfict and can offer enough to make it worth it to the Bengals?  Dallas

Why would Dallas do this? The Dallas Oline is stacked with All-Pro talent in place at left tackle (Tyron Smith), center (Travis Frederick) and right guard (Zack Martin), and Collin’s replacement is doing well filling in for him while he is injured.  They wont be able to pay everyone on that line. Also, Dallas has a gaping need at pass rusher and, given that they will probably have one of the last 4 picks in the 1st and 2nd round, all the immediate impact pass rushers should be gone.  Burfict could step in for the woeful Anthony Hitchen and pair with Sean Lee for one of the best LB groups in the NFL.  Burfict could bring more to the Dallas defense than any rookie pass rusher they could select. Packaging Collins with the 1st (which is pretty much a glorified 2nd at their slot) for a young, best in the NFL LB is a solid deal for them.

Why would the Bengals do this?  La’el Collins and a 1st round pick.  Collins has already emerged as one of the best guards in the league.  And has the potential to be just as good at LT.  Getting Collins would drastically help the Bengals Oline, and the late 1st would help the Bengals fortify other positions of need.

Heading into the draft the Bengals would be looking at approximately
1st (10th) Rueben Foster?
1st (32nd) Taco Charlton?
1st La’el Collins
2nd (10th)
3rd (5th)
3rd (10th)
4th (4th)
4th (10th)
4th (33rd)
4th (41st)
5th (10th)
6th (10th)
6th ( 33rd)
6th (37th)
7th (10th)

That would give the new staff some extremely potent tools for getting the guys who would fit their scheme and possibly make an impact.  All for the cost of 2 players.  Not bad.  I just hope something magically delicious like this could come to pass.


Thoughts, comments, concerns?

[*SHRacerX*]

Player trades are very rare in the NFL, but that doesn't mean we can't talk about them.

I hadn't considered a Burfict trade because I think he is the best player on the defense and it isn't even close. He hasn't been an idiot this year, and he has started to get in playing shape and become what we expected of him. It is an interesting discussion though, and I think you nailed the team.

Burfict would give Dallas a swagger they simply don't have on defense. And I think he would become a huge star playing for Dallas. Collins is expendable, but I doubt we could also get a first round pick. Jerry would never want to be excluded from the publicity of the first round.

If they got a second rounder? Hmmmm. I still would probably not do it, because this defense sucks rhinoceros balls without him, but it is a very interesting question. I applaud your outside the box thinking.

[phil413]

(12-19-2016, 03:40 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Player trades are very rare in the NFL, but that doesn't mean we can't talk about them.

I hadn't considered a Burfict trade because I think he is the best player on the defense and it isn't even close.  He hasn't been an idiot this year, and he has started to get in playing shape and become what we expected of him.  It is an interesting discussion though, and I think you nailed the team.

Burfict would give Dallas a swagger they simply don't have on defense.  And I think he would become a huge star playing for Dallas.  Collins is expendable, but I doubt we could also get a first round pick.  Jerry would never want to be excluded from the publicity of the first round.

If they got a second rounder?  Hmmmm.  I still would probably not do it, because this defense sucks rhinoceros balls without him, but it is a very interesting question.  I applaud your outside the box thinking.

As much as I can't deny how talented Burfict is, he's still a time bomb.  It's not just about his history or even his perception, but he has had concussion problems as well.  He could wake up tomorrow and decide he doesn't want the long term effects, doesn't want to be a target for refs, doesn't want to be part of a rebuild or a coach that may actually keep him in line, or all of the above.  I'm not against dealing him if the return is a solid OL and a high pick.  Solidify the OL and DL and bring some young LB's along.  If Dallas gets close but can't finish, I like the idea because Collins a 2nd and a late pick could get done.  

[reuben.ahmed]

I think Marvin has zero control over his players. We grow tired of "Clap, let's go." and we just see it on TV every once in a while.

Our defense is atrocious without Burfict playing, and you're right, he's the best on our Defense and it's not close (others would say *cough* Atkins).

Zimmer would probably have sat Adam or Burfict the instant they act out on a play, it's called the penalty box. Even grown children need it. Nugent should have been cut 10 games ago, now everyone can see he's the worst kicker in the league and I can't see any NFL team ever hiring him again.

Also, Cincy likes to sit some of their draft picks for a year or two behind veterans that know what they're doing but probably have a lower ceiling.

I know there is no worth for AJ Green, you could trade 5 first rounders and we would still be unhappy, but the way this team is going, AJ Green is going to retire without even a playoff win...Burfict (when not acting crazy) is as good as AJ Green. AJ isn't getting any younger, next year is the average year for WR decline for his age. Have to win now.

[Crowe]

(12-19-2016, 02:51 AM)Burma Wrote: Lately I haven’t felt like writing up lengthy and researched posts.  My interest level has been low and honestly, who really cares?  It doesn’t change minds or prompt the team to make changes.  However, I am bored.

So let’s assume that the front office decides to make some changes and brings in a new coach.  What ammo will the team have to make the select changes that get the team over the hump without resorting to a fire sale? Currently over the cap is projecting the Bengals to have 4 comp picks; 2 in the 4th and 2 in the 6th.  With these being tradeable this upcoming draft that provides a bit of help for mid round moves.  But what options are available that would allow the team to make some significant moves without mortgaging the future.

Option 1:  Trade AJ McCarron

The question here is if the short term value the McCarron provides as a backup for the last season of his contract outweighs the potential value gained from trading him.  To me that is a simple decision, why let him walk and get nothing more than a potential comp pick when you can trade him now and choose what you get in return?  So then, who wants him? Right now the league is still processing the fallout of the recent back up QB craze.  The results have not been good. The Bengals are simply not going to get a 1st or 2nd for McCarron. The ideal trade partner is a team with multiple high mid round picks, a need at QB, and a 1st or 2nd round draft pick that is too high to spend on the current QB crop.

The team that is in this “Goldilocks” position are the Bears.  They currently have the 5th pick in the 3rd round and 4th rounds, and also the 13th pick in the 4th round as well as a clear need at QB.   Getting the 5th pick in the 3rd and 4th round for McCarron is probably the best you can expect since the backup QB bubble burst.
Why would the Bears do this? They have several pressing needs besides QB and a draft slot that probably won’t be worth using on the QBs available.  Matt Barkley might be serviceable, but a modest investment in QB upgrade could be exactly what they need.

Option 2:  Trade Vontaze Burfict

Why would we trade the best LB in the NFL and the heart of our defense?  Simple.  2017 is his last year under contract, and would only have a $775k cap hit.  Assuming he gets a contract worthy of the best LB in the league we’re looking at 5 year/65 mill contract (using Luke Kuechly’s contract as a base).  This contract would come at the same time the Bengals have to deal with new contracts for Darqueze Dennard, Will Clarke, Jeremy Hill, and Tyler Eifert. Not to mention Andrew Whitworth, Kevin Zeitler, and Dre Kirkpatrick’s deals from this off season. Not everyone can get paid.  And quite frankly the new coach may not want to deal with the headaches that come from one of Marvin’s projects. Also, the Bengals are drafting in a spot where there are 3 very good prospects that could step in and fill Burfict’s gap; Reuben Foster and Zach Cunningham in the 1st, and Jarrad Davis in the 2nd.

So, who would be willing to trade for Burfict and can offer enough to make it worth it to the Bengals?  Dallas

Why would Dallas do this? The Dallas Oline is stacked with All-Pro talent in place at left tackle (Tyron Smith), center (Travis Frederick) and right guard (Zack Martin), and Collin’s replacement is doing well filling in for him while he is injured.  They wont be able to pay everyone on that line. Also, Dallas has a gaping need at pass rusher and, given that they will probably have one of the last 4 picks in the 1st and 2nd round, all the immediate impact pass rushers should be gone.  Burfict could step in for the woeful Anthony Hitchen and pair with Sean Lee for one of the best LB groups in the NFL.  Burfict could bring more to the Dallas defense than any rookie pass rusher they could select. Packaging Collins with the 1st (which is pretty much a glorified 2nd at their slot) for a young, best in the NFL LB is a solid deal for them.

Why would the Bengals do this?  La’el Collins and a 1st round pick.  Collins has already emerged as one of the best guards in the league.  And has the potential to be just as good at LT.  Getting Collins would drastically help the Bengals Oline, and the late 1st would help the Bengals fortify other positions of need.

Heading into the draft the Bengals would be looking at approximately
1st (10th) Rueben Foster?
1st (32nd) Taco Charlton?
1st La’el Collins
2nd (10th)
3rd (5th)
3rd (10th)
4th (4th)
4th (10th)
4th (33rd)
4th (41st)
5th (10th)
6th (10th)
6th ( 33rd)
6th (37th)
7th (10th)

That would give the new staff some extremely potent tools for getting the guys who would fit their scheme and possibly make an impact.  All for the cost of 2 players.  Not bad.  I just hope something magically delicious like this could come to pass.


Thoughts, comments, concerns?

This team would be stupid not to trade McCarron, personally he should be getting snaps now that the season is over so to drive up his trade value. 

The teams defense is built around Burfict, I would not trade him, but I am all for drafting Foster, we need more linebackers that are good.

I'd trade the coaching staff asap, we cannot win with complacent Marvin and Co. Any real coach would have had this team fighting for a SB instead Marvin and Co. just gave up a huge first half lead once again.